Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

TomOnBoard

Two big things today give me hope for the future of US politics and the country, despite the sleaze pool that Trump would have it become.

The 1st is that US Attorney Berman, a registered Republican, took on Trump/Barr's shenanigans and won.
The 2nd is that Trump's two SCOTUS picks voted in favour of the Supreme Court decisions in Trump v Mazars.

Small wins perhaps... But welcome and invigorating... Hopefully many such cases of Republicans doing the right thing as the poisonous cult of Trumpism is dealt with.

TomOnBoard

Penn wrote: »

Michael Cohen on his way back to jail for breaching his house arrest requirements by going out to eat at a restaurant because obviously the one thing to do when you get an insanely lucky break by being granted early release from jail due to a global pandemic is go eat at a f*cking restaurant...

This was Trump's lawyer.... He had a law degree...

There appears to be more to this than meets the eye.

While Cohen's need to dine out in Manhattan went against the craw of most people, it looks like the reason he was sent back to prison was that he refused to sign his house-arrest agreement, allegedly because it prohibits him from writing his promised book on Trump. He refused to accept this condition of his release on 1st Amendment grounds, and was promptly placed in shackles in the court.

Hmmmmm! Verry Interesting.... I'm not for a moment suggesting that somehow the Bureau of Prisons could be 'influenced' to try and silence Cohen... Could it???

I wonder if this attempt will join a long line of previous failed Trump efforts to silence former swampies like Omarosa, Wolff, Bolton as well as more normal people like Mary Trump and Carl Bernstein?? If so, Cohen's gonna need a bigger safe to hold the proceeds of da buk....

aloyisious

Judge Emmet Sullivan, the District Court judge hearing the case against Michael Flynn being heard by him has taken further steps in dealing with the case. After the DOJ decided to drop it's charges against Flynn out of the blue, Judge Sullivan appointed a separate judge to evaluate the DOJ request to drop the charges. Three judges on the appeal court panel for the DC area [in a 2-1 ruling] then ordered him to dismiss the charges against Flynn after some-one brought an appeal against his decision not to immediately terminate the case after the DOJ decision to drop the Flynn prosecution. Judge Sullivan has asked today for a full eleven-judge sitting of the DC appeal court to review his handling of the case and the 3-judge earlier ruling ordering him to drop the charges.

Water John

This Judge, who I presume has seen much of the evidence, is not letting go, until he's ordered to.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

This Judge, who I presume has seen much of the evidence, is not letting go, until he's ordered to.

Well a hearing by the full court was an option he had should the ruling go against him which it did 2-1 so it's not a case of this judge not letting go, he's using the options available to him. I think he's right honestly because the DOJ were wrong to intervene to the level they did.

StringerBell

According to a lot of the legal types the argument of the decision against him holds very little weight and there was talk to the full panel reviewing without being asked to do so, in that case I guess the full panel appeal was always likely and this has plenty of track left to run.

It's an absolute joke that a man who plead guilty twice and is a traitor to his country is somehow in the box seat to escape jail time. Two guilty pleas!

TomOnBoard

The court's decision to tell Sullivan to back off Flynn, authored by Judge Neomi Rao attracted widespread criticism for being way outside the powers of the Court. Rao, who took Kavanaugh's seat is serving as Trump's shield on that court. I reckon that the en banc hearing will lacerate her and reverse the finding.

PropJoe10

Just came across this on YouTube. I really dislike Rachel Maddow as a presenter but this piece really does hit home in terms of the bizarre times we live in, and how so many scandals/dumb moments involving Trump just get forgotten because there's ten new ones every day you wake up:

StringerBell

Her take last night in the SC decisions matches up with my own actually I caught a bit of it there a few minutes ago.

Yes both decisions went against him technically, but the thinking that practically they are both wins for him doesn't hold up necessarily for me either.

The house one, no argument. No chance of anything happening before the election, he got what he wanted.

But the state one, it's a clear direction that he has no special treatment when it comes to fighting subpoenas so yes he can go back now to the lower court to fight the subpoena but it doesn't necessarily have to drag on for weeks or months indefinitely.

There is a chance for a little late summer early autumn surprise for him there in my opinion.

Tell me how

StringerBell wrote: »

Her take last night in the SC decisions matches up with my own actually I caught a bit of it there a few minutes ago.

Yes both decisions went against him technically, but the thinking that practically they are both wins for him doesn't hold up necessarily for me either.

The house one, no argument. No chance of anything happening before the election, he got what he wanted.

But the state one, it's a clear direction that he has no special treatment when it comes to fighting subpoenas so yes he can go back now to the lower court to fight the subpoena but it doesn't necessarily have to drag on for weeks or months indefinitely.

There is a chance for a little late summer early autumn surprise for him there in my opinion.

It shows how bizarre a situation it is with him that on reading your post, my immediate though was that I hope he doesn't get a late summer early autumn surprise as if it was negative enough (for him) it would lead to massive calls from GOP of it being political and used to suggest that if he loses, it'll be because of some state level judge wanting to make a name for themselves.

Forget Covid, the abymsal leadership, the blind eye to Russia, the regressive environmental steps, the absence of a wall, the business focused bail outs etc etc, 'They're trying to steal the election!!!' will be the cry from the Republican side.

amandstu

Tell me how wrote: »

Forget Covid, the abymsal leadership, the blind eye to Russia, the regressive environmental steps, the absence of a wall, the business focused bail outs etc etc, 'They're trying to steal the election!!!' will be the cry from the Republican side.

But the voting public ,including his base will be gagging to see his returns and so will be complicit.

Also ,why didn't he just show his tax returns like all other recent candidates have done (and he promised)?

Not sure why any of the other issues need to be forgotten . He has trodden a slimy path from the outset and left endless hostages to fortune(and our bad fortune at that).

Water John

Don't think the SDNY would move on him prior to the election. Their business is successfully prosecuting a case. Next year will suit them fine, whether he's reelected or not.

StringerBell

Tell me how wrote: »

It shows how bizarre a situation it is with him that on reading your post, my immediate though was that I hope he doesn't get a late summer early autumn surprise as if it was negative enough (for him) it would lead to massive calls from GOP of it being political and used to suggest that if he loses, it'll be because of some state level judge wanting to make a name for themselves.

Forget Covid, the abymsal leadership, the blind eye to Russia, the regressive environmental steps, the absence of a wall, the business focused bail outs etc etc, 'They're trying to steal the election!!!' will be the cry from the Republican side.

Leave them at it, state courts, no presidential parsons. Good luck Donnie

Far more likely in that event that deal is done for Donnie to leave through the back door to avoid the charges.

Either way I can't see it being positive for him.

StringerBell

Water John wrote: »

Don't think the SDNY would move on him prior to the election. Their business is successfully prosecuting a case. Next year will suit them fine, whether he's reelected or not.

I'd expect to know if there's charges via leaks if not officially well before the end of the year though, I'd expect to know before the election in fact.

amandstu

Water John wrote: »

Don't think the SDNY would move on him prior to the election. Their business is successfully prosecuting a case. Next year will suit them fine, whether he's reelected or not.

You don't think that ,if re elected he would find a way to halt the process?

StringerBell

amandstu wrote: »

You don't think that ,if re elected he would find a way to halt the process?

He absolutely will do whatever he has to if he gets back in, look at how little he has cared about the rule of law and imagine how much worse it will get.

Quin_Dub

amandstu wrote: »

But the voting public ,including his base will be gagging to see his returns and so will be complicit.

Also ,why didn't he just show his tax returns like all other recent candidates have done (and he promised)?

Not sure why any of the other issues need to be forgotten . He has trodden a slimy path from the outset and left endless hostages to fortune(and our bad fortune at that).

I don't believe they'll show anything particularly illegal (outside of what is being investigated in NY) but what it will show is that his entire persona is build on a huge massive lie.

This is a man who has spent his life telling everyone how amazing and successful he is at every opportunity but now when given an opportunity to prove it he fight tooth and nail in court to hide the specifics???

He's not a Billionaire (or if he is only just) . he's up to his eyes in debt and his businesses are a failing pyramid scheme that haven't turned a net profit in years, if ever.

His entire persona and ego punctured - That would be a mortal wound to a raging narcissist like Trump .

Even Fox News agrees

sid waddell

Tell me how wrote: »

Forget Covid, the abymsal leadership, the blind eye to Russia, the regressive environmental steps, the absence of a wall, the business focused bail outs etc etc, 'They're trying to steal the election!!!' will be the cry from the Republican side.

Trump will continue to claim the Democrats are trying to fix the election not just as a way to advertise his own crimes - he's planning to fix it - but as a way to get Democrats to ridicule the notion that the election will be fixed, meaning that the Democrats cannot object to the "results" without looking like idiots when Trump actually does fix the election in his favour.

This is what he did in 2016 and he's doing it again.

What a neat grift.

sid waddell

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I don't believe they'll show anything particularly illegal (outside of what is being investigated in NY) but what it will show is that his entire persona is build on a huge massive lie.

This is a man who has spent his life telling everyone how amazing and successful he is at every opportunity but now when given an opportunity to prove it he fight tooth and nail in court to hide the specifics???

He's not a Billionaire (or if he is only just) . he's up to his eyes in debt and his businesses are a failing pyramid scheme that haven't turned a net profit in years, if ever.

His entire persona and ego punctured - That would be a mortal wound to a raging narcissist like Trump .

Even Fox News agrees

Is operating businesses which are a front for Russian mafia money laundering actually illegal?

Serious question to anybody reading.

Quin_Dub

sid waddell wrote: »

Is operating businesses which are a front for Russian mafia money laundering actually illegal?

Serious question to anybody reading.

I guess the key question there would be if it was "knowingly" ?

If you knew it was funds from criminal activity , that's a crime clear as day.

If you didn't know , then maybe their might be some breach of business rules for not doing due diligence and the like - You might end up getting your company struck off the register or banned from from being a company director , that kind of thing.

sid waddell

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I guess the key question there would be if it was "knowingly" ?

If you knew it was funds from criminal activity , that's a crime clear as day.

If you didn't know , then maybe their might be some breach of business rules for not doing due diligence and the like - You might end up getting your company struck off the register or banned from from being a company director , that kind of thing.

It seems to me it becomes harder to claim you didn't know when there's a consistent pattern there which spans three decades.

Tchaikovsky

There's a meme going around that says it all:
The "billionaire" who hides his tax returns
The "genius" who hides his college grades
The "businessman" who bankrupted a casino
The "playboy" who pays for sex
The "Christian" who doesn't go to church
The "philanthropist" who defrauds a charity
The "patriot" who dodged the draft
The "innocent man" who refused to testify

Tell me how

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

There's a meme going around that says it all:
The "billionaire" who hides his tax returns
The "genius" who hides his college grades
The "businessman" who bankrupted a casino
The "playboy" who pays for sex
The "Christian" who doesn't go to church
The "philanthropist" who defrauds a charity
The "patriot" who dodged the draft
The "innocent man" who refused to testify

And they are all demonstrably true! It's not a case of 'He's like someone who.....' He literally did all these things.

Watching this unfold over the last number of years with the accompanying refusal of his supporters/party to see him for what he is is very revealing in a societal/political way.

I've said it before, Trump is performing pretty much exactly as I expected he would, but I had no idea that he would be let do so by the structures of the White House or the Republican Party. I figured that once he got elected, he'd welcome strong advisors to stage manage his every word and action but it is had been a fiasco continuously since the beginning.

It has shown the absence of morality and dignity which dominate in US politics. The 2 party system has been a significant reason as to why it has gotten to this.

amandstu

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I don't believe they'll show anything particularly illegal (outside of what is being investigated in NY) but what it will show is that his entire persona is build on a huge massive lie.

This is a man who has spent his life telling everyone how amazing and successful he is at every opportunity but now when given an opportunity to prove it he fight tooth and nail in court to hide the specifics???

He's not a Billionaire (or if he is only just) . he's up to his eyes in debt and his businesses are a failing pyramid scheme that haven't turned a net profit in years, if ever.

His entire persona and ego punctured - That would be a mortal wound to a raging narcissist like Trump .

Even Fox News agrees

If that turned out to be so ,I would actually think better of him (no fault of his own to have inherited Daddy's money and to have been a poor businessman).

The suspicion is that the GRU did their job (compromat) on Trump
We already know the manunculus is a sick joke but such a revelation would mean the joke was on the American public (and us ).

bmc58

pixelburp wrote: »

America First in action it seems: the US has bought 90% of world supplies of a key CoVid treatment drug, leaving the rest of the world lacking for the next 3 months. Only one company holds the patent (insert Big Pharma rant here). Says a lot IMO when an institution supposedly meant to make sober, considered actions behaves like a panicky hoarder buying up all the loo roll.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/30/us-buys-up-world-stock-of-key-covid-19-drug

The way Covid 19 is spreading in their country now,they'll want every drop of it and more.

aloyisious

Trump seems to think there is a difference between mail-in ballots and absentee ballots, the first are "dishonest" and the second are "fine". Is there any actual difference or is he just confused?

aloyisious

Water John wrote: »

Don't think the SDNY would move on him prior to the election. Their business is successfully prosecuting a case. Next year will suit them fine, whether he's reelected or not.

I'd like to think that, like with the USSC decision to pass the issue of of Trump's tax declarations being made public back down to the lower courts, it's to NOT give Trump any cause to say they interfered with the election like Comey allegedly did [not that not having any excuse to make an accusation would bother Trump].

Wanderer78

aloyisious wrote:

Trump seems to think there is a difference between mail-in ballots and absentee ballots, the first are "dishonest" and the second are "fine". Is there any actual difference or is he just confused?

Think he's a bit more than confused to be honest, very little going on up stairs there, wouldn't be surprised if he packed in the election, looking less likely he ll be reelected, his ego is too fragile for a defeat, he d rather quit and blame everyone else

TomOnBoard

aloyisious wrote: »

Trump seems to think there is a difference between mail-in ballots and absentee ballots, the first are "dishonest" and the second are "fine". Is there any actual difference or is he just confused?

Yeah, there's a difference.

Basically, they both use the mail (and fax in unusual cases for absentees) to transport the votes.

Absentee ballots are sent to ppl who can't physically be at the polling booth. They must be applied for and, in most states, a reason ('excuse') given. Examples include military personnel, students living away etc.

Some states operate a mail in ballots system whereby the elections are conducted predominantly via the mail.

So, the issue seems to be boiling down to attempts to extend the absentee ballot principle to all voters and dropping the need for an 'excuse' if a voter wishes to vote by mail instead of in person.

Trump is saying that the process involved in applying for an absentee ballot ensures some security, and if that 'excuse' requirement were dropped, voter fraud would increase. Many others believe that's simply BS.

TomOnBoard

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Think he's a bit more than confused to be honest, very little going on up stairs there, wouldn't be surprised if he packed in the election, looking less likely he ll be reelected, his ego is too fragile for a defeat, he d rather quit and blame everyone else

This is very likely IMO. He won't just quit, but will 'get' a convenient health condition that means and can't run again, thereby saving face. Whether he does that in a timeframe that allows an alternative candidate to run, or simply says "Phuck 'em... Let Mitch and the rest of 'em figure it out", or resigns completely and puts Pence in the chair who will then pardon any/all offences he might have committed.... Anyone's guess at this stage...

StringerBell

How long until the ways and means committee case will be ruled on?

Incredible to think something literally written into law is being contested in a serious manner.

They need some serious reform in the US to stop administrations doing this running out the clock in the future

listermint

https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/1281675261931671552

Well well...


"NEW: A federal judge in NY – acting quickly on his own and without being asked by either side -- has ordered attorneys for President Trump and Manhattan D.A. Cy Vance to inform the court by next Wednesday morning how they expect to proceed with the subpoena for Trump's tax docs"

Wanderer78

TomOnBoard wrote:

This is very likely IMO. He won't just quit, but will 'get' a convenient health condition that means and can't run again, thereby saving face. Whether he does that in a timeframe that allows an alternative candidate to run, or simply says "Phuck 'em... Let Mitch and the rest of 'em figure it out", or resigns completely and puts Pence in the chair who will then pardon any/all offences he might have committed.... Anyone's guess at this stage...

Does he normally live in trump towers, thinking of sending a few dummies to him when he bombs?

Water John

I presume that's the judge in charge of the Grand Jury?
Obtaining and examining the tax returns and doing an indepth cross analysis should take some time.

Arghus

Judging by his quotes, it sounds like it's a matter of time before he gets rid of Dr. Fauci.

StringerBell

listermint wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/1281675261931671552

Well well...


"NEW: A federal judge in NY – acting quickly on his own and without being asked by either side -- has ordered attorneys for President Trump and Manhattan D.A. Cy Vance to inform the court by next Wednesday morning how they expect to proceed with the subpoena for Trump's tax docs"

Has form for acting speedily on Trump matters before actually, a part I forgot when I was explaining why I don't think this necessarily drags on too long and we might get something out of it before the election.

Headshot

Arghus wrote: »

Judging by his quotes, it sounds like it's a matter of time before he gets rid of Dr. Fauci.

He's been dying to get rid of him, it's only a matter of time.

Fauci is barely on tv anymore as the White House are trying to stop Fauci telling the true costs of the Covid.

The USA needs a wake up call and unfortunately Trump isnt the person to provide this and Fauci has to say how bad it is.

I do look forward to the day when Fauci retires and brings out a book about his time under this crazy administration, it will an unbelievable read

PropJoe10

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Does he normally live in trump towers, thinking of sending a few dummies to him when he bombs?

He'll probably move to Jeffrey Epstein's island off Florida or something.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

I presume that's the judge in charge of the Grand Jury?
Obtaining and examining the tax returns and doing an indepth cross analysis should take some time.

Well the two firms involved have said they are examining the ruling to understand their legal obligations. I doubt either firm would be dumb enough to resist a legal order so obtaining them won't take time once they hand them over. The review of them may take time but I doubt it takes a long time. I get the impression that the prosecutors know the things they need to check because let's remember the trump Organisation have been cooperating with documents.

Water John

Making documents available in a legal case, usually means drowning them with rooms full of paper.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

Making documents available in a legal case, usually means drowning them with rooms full of paper.

Yeah but this is the manhattan DA we are talking about here, and if the New York Times could go through the tax returns and other documents of the trump family in a timely fashion for their superb article, then I'm sure the manhattan DA can go through it relatively quickly. The main reason is the stormy Daniels pay off so the timeline is fairly tight on when that happened.

Itssoeasy

Donald trump has commuted roger stones prison sentence who was convicted of covering up for trump. Drain the swamp indeed. Even Nixon didn't pardon his people.

Arghus

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Donald trump has commuted roger stones prison sentence who was convicted of covering up for trump. Drain the swamp indeed. Even Nixon didn't pardon his people.

It's all a great distraction. Get the media off his back for a while about the virus, get them all riled up talking about Roger Stone.

StringerBell

It's just naked, brazen corruption in full view of the public without a care in the world. America is in big, big trouble and worse if he grifts his way to a second term

Incredible, and I do always wonder for any of his supporters, I know the ones round here have largely disappeared, but I do always wonder do they stop to think how they would feel about the actions if it was a guy from the other team carrying them out.

He is an absolute disgrace. A stomach turning human being.

Itssoeasy

And just for the record of the thread roger stone as a result of the Robert mueller investigation was CONVICTED of lying to congress, obstruction and tampering of witneses.

I take it the usa can no longer call out other authoritarian countries when they do the very thing Donald trump has done tonight. Hopefully the American media don't get distracted by this and stay on the important issues of coronavirus and the fact the American president seems to have done nothing in regards to Russia putting bounties on what America rightly describes as "the best of us."

aloyisious

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Donald trump has commuted roger stones prison sentence who was convicted of covering up for trump. Drain the swamp indeed. Even Nixon didn't pardon his people.

He gets to keep his convicted felon record as its a commution of sentence, not a pardon wiping the board clean. There's a plus in that as it implies a pardon would have been a step too far for Trumps legal advisors, whatever about the top judges. Imagine the look on W/H residents faces when they hear Stone on U.S TV saying he's going to write a book about his legal experiences.

alchemist33

https://twitter.com/howardfineman/status/1281681337351626752?s=20


And here's Stone admitting he got his sentence commuted because he had dirt on Trump. It's like a crime drama where the gangland boss will get his lackey out as long as he doesn't sing like a canary.

robinph

alchemist33 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/howardfineman/status/1281681337351626752?s=20


And here's Stone admitting he got his sentence commuted because he had dirt on Trump. It's like a crime drama where the gangland boss will get his lackey out as long as he doesn't sing like a canary.

Which whilst that is Trump sticking his fingers up at anyone trying to come after him, the inability to realise that at some stage very soon he's not going to be the president anymore and whoever he is currently sticking his fingers up at will be free to come back after him, especially as he's just admitted guilt by cancelling the sentence for someone who says they have more dirt on him.

listermint

Can't wait to see trump in the dock . Il actually have a beer to celebrate.

aloyisious

alchemist33 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/howardfineman/status/1281681337351626752?s=20


And here's Stone admitting he got his sentence commuted because he had dirt on Trump. It's like a crime drama where the gangland boss will get his lackey out as long as he doesn't sing like a canary.

Two-part question: ref his 7 felony convictions, does the state he's a resident in have a law denying convicted felons the vote AND if his home state did have such a law, would it apply to him? Is he a Florida resident for the purpose of voting?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/florida-republicans-move-limit-felon-voting-rights-despite-constitutional-amendment-n985156

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/florida-governor-signs-bill-making-it-harder-for-felons-to-regain-voting-rights/2019/06/28/5e446828-9a0b-11e9-916d-9c61607d8190_story.html