Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

Let's try this again.

I have to say, after the two conventions, I'm a bit more optimistic about 4 more years.

A couple of weeks ago around the time Kamala was announced, I thought the dems couldnt lose. Same as, pre covid, Trump couldnt lose. This is going to be a close run thing and will rest on the swing states. Trump has to energise his base to get out, and Joe has to push his "hey Im not Trump" brigade out. Whoever gets their base out in the swing states will win.

what i said previously.... it will be close, very close

Professor Moriarty

ELM327 wrote: »

Let's try this again.

I have to say, after the two conventions, I'm a bit more optimistic about 4 more years.

A couple of weeks ago around the time Kamala was announced, I thought the dems couldnt lose. Same as, pre covid, Trump couldnt lose. This is going to be a close run thing and will rest on the swing states. Trump has to energise his base to get out, and Joe has to push his "hey Im not Trump" brigade out. Whoever gets their base out in the swing states will win.

What are Trump's qualities and achievements that cause you to support his re-election?

Wanderer78

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What are Trump's qualities and achievements that cause you to support his re-election?

his base doesnt actually care, theyll support him forever, even long after his presidency, he can do no wrong in their minds

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

what i said previously.... it will be close, very close

For sure

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What are Trump's qualities and achievements that cause you to support his re-election?

I supported him last time and have seen nothing to change that.



What are Biden's qualities and achievements that cause you to support his re-election? (Not being Trump doesnt count)

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

For sure





I supported him last time and have seen nothing to change that.



What are Biden's qualities and achievements that cause you to support his re-election? (Not being Trump doesnt count)

he might be slightly better than trump, might be!

hirondelle

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The markets booming are only one part of the economy.
Unemployment figures were at 50 year lows. These are figures from government departments not out of Trumps mouth. Indisputable

On a side note if the markets are booming it means investors are confident in the economy as a whole. People invest, companies use that money to expand , jobs are then created.

Do you think life would be good for all Americans if the market was in the toilet?

You are aware that the economy (and stock market) grew because Trump threw three trillion freshly printed dollars at it- and this before the covid? This ballooned deficit will need to be balanced, so what was his plan for this? Has the sacred market priced this in? Obviously not. As per the last cycle, the tab will b paid by the ordinary worker, fooled again, again.

Wanderer78

hirondelle wrote: »

You are aware that the economy (and stock market) grew because Trump threw three trillion freshly printed dollars at it- and this before the covid? This ballooned deficit will need to be balanced, so what was his plan for this? Has the sacred market priced this in? Obviously not. As per the last cycle, the tab will b paid by the ordinary worker, fooled again, again.

ballooning public debt has caused far less problems than ballooning private debt, as we ve recently discovered, but maintain high market prices doesnt always mean a good economy for all, rarely does in fact

Professor Moriarty

ELM327 wrote: »

For sure





I supported him last time and have seen nothing to change that.



What are Biden's qualities and achievements that cause you to support his re-election? (Not being Trump doesnt count)

Well, Biden isn't being re-elected as POTUS.

Biden is a seasoned politician. Biden, as VP, performed very well. As early as the 1970s, Biden focused on equality, consumer protection and environmental issues. He is an intelligent and highly educated man who has survived deep personal losses and grown into being a decent human being. His most recent speech showed him to be a highly capable and charismatic leader whose main goal is to heal division.

So, your turn. What are Trump's qualities and achievements?

PropJoe10

ELM327 wrote: »

For sure





I supported him last time and have seen nothing to change that.



What are Biden's qualities and achievements that cause you to support his re-election? (Not being Trump doesnt count)

Normally, you'd be right. But in this case, it does for a lot of people. Trump has debased the office of President and the dignity of the country since the first day he was elected.

Christy42

ELM327 wrote: »

For sure





I supported him last time and have seen nothing to change that.



What are Biden's qualities and achievements that cause you to support his re-election? (Not being Trump doesnt count)

Not to put words in the posters mouth but for me it is a willingness to listen to scientists on matters like climate change and pandemics. The fact that he thinks about issues before reacting. He acts in a calm manner. He talked to the protestors out on the streets. Talking is the only way that is going to get sorted.

He is opposed to removing healthcare and social security from those who need it most. He has seen what it takes to negotiate with Congress from Obama's terms. Most notably the work that went into Obamacare.


He is not my favourite candidate ever. Certain things like funding for college students or health care need more work while he will like leave them as is.

He will mend the currently damaged relations the US has with its traditional allies in Europe.

hirondelle

ELM327 wrote: »

For sure





I supported him last time and have seen nothing to change that.



What are Biden's qualities and achievements that cause you to support his re-election? (Not being Trump doesnt count)

If I was a US voter, I would have had to hold my nose very tightly and vote for Clinton last time- and not just because Trump repulses me, Medicare etc. would have been a big factor.

I think not being Trump will be a significant factor in this election. I have no idea if Trumps energised base will outvote this factor, but some people who didn't vote for Clinton will certainly vote for Biden this time.

ELM327

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Well, Biden isn't being re-elected as POTUS.

Biden is a seasoned politician. Biden, as VP, performed very well. As early as the 1970s, Biden focused on equality, consumer protection and environmental issues. He is an intelligent and highly educated man who has survived deep personal losses and grown into being a decent human being. His most recent speech showed him to be a highly capable and charismatic leader whose main goal is to heal division.

So, your turn. What are Trump's qualities and achievements?

He's campaigning for president. He is a lifer, having been in politics for long enough to have been in office to work with those who were in office during segregation. This man is not the man to bring change to alleged systemic racism. You cant change a system you've been part of for 50 years




Trump in the WH is the best riposte to cancel culture. Trump is pro business, pro personal freedoms and pro small government (notable exceptions to this for the military and for covid payments). This ties with my political views. He has stacked the SCOTUS with conservative judges, rendering any challenges to the second amendment very unlikely.



Trump during his 4 year term has been a boon to international relations. His repairing ties with the likes of North Korea and Russia and China have been successful.


Trump was a massive success in the economy. Before Covid, the stock market, economic growth, and employment rates were booming. Unemployment rates among all races, and particularly african americans, were at all time lows.


The covid pandemic has come at a very inopportune moment, but it doesnt change 3.5 years of prosperity.


Above all else, and notwithstanding the above, Trump shoots from the hip and is not a career politician. I admire that.

ELM327

hirondelle wrote: »

If I was a US voter, I would have had to hold my nose very tightly and vote for Clinton last time- and not just because Trump repulses me, Medicare etc. would have been a big factor.

I think not being Trump will be a significant factor in this election. I have no idea if Trumps energised base will outvote this factor, but some people who didn't vote for Clinton will certainly vote for Biden this time.

I agree. The "not clinton" brigade was very strong last time. This will be a factor

ELM327

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Normally, you'd be right. But in this case, it does for a lot of people. Trump has debased the office of President and the dignity of the country since the first day he was elected.

This type of hyperbole is not constructive.

looksee

hirondelle wrote: »

If I was a US voter, I would have had to hold my nose very tightly and vote for Clinton last time- and not just because Trump repulses me, Medicare etc. would have been a big factor.

I think not being Trump will be a significant factor in this election. I have no idea if Trumps energised base will outvote this factor, but some people who didn't vote for Clinton will certainly vote for Biden this time.

A Texan of my acquaintance told me a few years ago that she voted for Trump because she could not cope with the thought of voting for Clinton. In the same conversation she mentioned some local issue being caused, as she said, by 'our brown friends', and argued that charitable hospital care was good and the way to go for poor people because it enabled Christians to do charitable work by supporting it.

ELM327

looksee wrote: »

A Texan of my acquaintance told me a few years ago that she voted for Trump because she could not cope with the thought of voting for Clinton. In the same conversation she mentioned some local issue being caused, as she said, by 'our brown friends', and argued that charitable hospital care was good and the way to go for poor people because it enabled Christians to do charitable work by supporting it.

It's probably not very politically correct to say that then or now. But I wonder what she makes of the BLM burning and looting. Her and her ilk would likely be Trump supporters again.

duploelabs

ELM327 wrote: »

It's probably not very politically correct to say that then or now. But I wonder what she makes of the BLM burning and looting. Her and her ilk would likely be Trump supporters again.

Not all protesters are rioters and looters, they're in there but not in the way you suggest. In the same way, not all trump supporters are racists, but I can guarantee you all racists are Trump supporters

ELM327

duploelabs wrote: »

Not all protesters are rioters and looters, they're in there but not in the way you suggest. In the same way, not all trump supporters are racists, but I can guarantee you all racists are Trump supporters

So, African Americans that hate whites, or Middle Eastern Arabs that hate westerners are Trump supporters??

looksee

ELM327 wrote: »

It's probably not very politically correct to say that then or now. But I wonder what she makes of the BLM burning and looting. Her and her ilk would likely be Trump supporters again.

I haven't spoken with her since, but I imagine she entirely accepts the canard you are trying to slip into the argument, that the burning and looting is entirely down to BLM.

pixelburp

The math is simple: Trump won off of the back of the Undecideds and those left behind in the Rust Belt. Coupled with an underestimated hatred for Clinton. The polls consistently now show (IIRC it's a few pages back here even) that those Undecideds who took a punt on Trump are experiencing buyer's remorse. Trump's Base is not sufficient to carry reelection and so he needs to get those floating voters back onside. The convention doesn't demonstrate a seriousness in doing so - instead is playing to the base with all the vitriol turned to 11. The convention is literally trying to convey a Biden Presidency as an apocalyptic event - an actual quote from a speaker claiming it would mean "... with no hope for escape, except death itself" - which makes the cry about "hyperbole" feeling pretty weak and hypocritical. The GOP convention is speaking of a burning America unless Trump is voted back in. This is not the serious action of a President appealing to Centrist American for the vote.

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

He's campaigning for president. He is a lifer, having been in politics for long enough to have been in office to work with those who were in office during segregation. This man is not the man to bring change to alleged systemic racism. You cant change a system you've been part of for 50 years

Trump in the WH is the best riposte to cancel culture. Trump is pro business, pro personal freedoms and pro small government (notable exceptions to this for the military and for covid payments). This ties with my political views. He has stacked the SCOTUS with conservative judges, rendering any challenges to the second amendment very unlikely.

Trump during his 4 year term has been a boon to international relations. His repairing ties with the likes of North Korea and Russia and China have been successful.

Trump was a massive success in the economy. Before Covid, the stock market, economic growth, and employment rates were booming. Unemployment rates among all races, and particularly african americans, were at all time lows.

The covid pandemic has come at a very inopportune moment, but it doesnt change 3.5 years of prosperity.

Above all else, and notwithstanding the above, Trump shoots from the hip and is not a career politician. I admire that.

trump is possibly the most racist 'politician' that has walked the planet

trump is pro trump, and thats about it really, he actually has little or no interest in others interests, unless it benefits him, a fairly typical narcissist

he has been repairing international relations! :eek:

whos economy????

has he truly been good with dealing with covid???

shooting from the hip, in such as job, can in fact be extremely dangerous, and can cause great long term damage to a country, possibly the world

ELM327 wrote: »

This type of hyperbole is not constructive.

tis the truth though

The Raging Bile Duct

ELM327 wrote: »

Trump during his 4 year term has been a boon to international relations. His repairing ties with the likes of North Korea and Russia and China have been successful.

Trump announced the US will pull out of the World Health Organization even as the global coronavirus pandemic continues to claim lives, claiming that China has "total control" over the organization of 194 member states. He said China had pressured the WHO to "mislead the world" over the origins of the pandemic, which he described as the "Wuhan virus," and said that health funding would be redirected to "other worldwide and deserving, urgent global public health needs."

The President said the US would also take action on a number of other fronts, including barring "certain foreign nationals from China" from entering the US and sanctioning officials in China and Hong Kong for their direct or indirect role in "smothering" Hong Kong's freedoms.

"US-China relations are in full crisis," said Richard Fontaine, the CEO of the Center for a New American Security. "We've hit the floor and keep falling through it. Beijing will retaliate in response to the Hong Kong steps the administration takes, and then the ball will be back in the President's court. Things will get worse -- potentially much worse -- before they get any better."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/29/politics/trump-china-announcement/index.html

North Korea on Friday said it was abandoning attempts to pursue a diplomatic relationship with the White House because two years after a historic handshake between President Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un "even a slim ray of optimism" for peace and prosperity on the Korean peninsula had "faded away into a dark nightmare."

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/06/12/north-korea-diplomacy-trump-has-failed-boost-nuclear-program/3174457001/

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

trump is possibly the most racist 'politician' that has walked the planet

trump is pro trump, and thats about it really, he actually has little or no interest in others interests, unless it benefits him, a fairly typical narcissist

he has been repairing international relations! :eek:

whos economy????

has he truly been good with dealing with covid???

shooting from the hip, in such as job, can in fact be extremely dangerous, and can cause great long term damage to a country, possibly the world



tis the truth though

Doesn't seem so racist to these folks, and, with no disrespect, I'll listen to their opinion over yours on the matter.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-45997233

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

Doesn't seem so racist to these folks, and, with no disrespect, I'll listen to their opinion over yours on the matter.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-45997233

he is though, hes astonishingly ignorant and racist

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

he is though, hes astonishingly ignorant and racist

Both of those are subjective opinions though.
If he were racist, he woudlnt have african american support bases in any amounts. No jews voted for Hitler.

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

Both of those are subjective opinions though.
If he were racist, he woudlnt have african american support bases in any amounts. No jews voted for Hitler.

why wouldnt he? i wonder are they wealthy African Americans?

Tchaikovsky

ELM327 wrote: »

Doesn't seem so racist to these folks, and, with no disrespect, I'll listen to their opinion over yours on the matter.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-45997233

The guy's a bigot to his very core. If certain people have Stockholm Syndrome towards him, then that's up to them to get help.

hirondelle

ELM327 wrote: »

Doesn't seem so racist to these folks, and, with no disrespect, I'll listen to their opinion over yours on the matter.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-45997233

Would you accept the views of validated voters:

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/

91% of black voters voted Clinton. I'm not saying racism was definitively the reason, but it is an overwhelming figure.

spacecoyote

Did I hear that Pence tried pushing the slogan:

"Make America Great Again...Again" last night. Hardly inspiring stuff is it. Does that mean that they failed the first time?

They really do seem to be purely pushing an agenda of complete vitriol. They have no platform, no agenda.

Climate - forget about it
Healthcare - forget about it
Infrastructure - forget about it
Economy - forget about it
Covid - forget about it

Its just fear, fear, fear & hate, hate, hate

Reality is the democrats are a million miles from radically left, but its amazing how easily they trot that line out.

If you look at the way the RNC has gone to date, its almost entirely TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP. There are no list of high profile Republicans or Conservatives, its just a combo of the Trump family, sycophants and nut-jobs. So, the "he's not Trump" is 100% an appropriate argument for Biden. Its not an election of Right vs Left, its an election of Biden vs Trump, and its very much Trump that is setting that agenda

StringerBell

ELM327 wrote: »

This type of hyperbole is not constructive.

I'm not being smart, but I find it very ironic that you have called that post out as not constructive due to hyperbole when a couple of posts before, leaving out the other parts of your post id have an issue with, you have stated that trump has been a boon for international relations, citing Russia, China and North Korea as your basis. Hyperbole would be the absolute kindest way you could possibly classify what you said, and even then...