The consequences of buying fish

auspicious

[Deleted User] wrote: »

you stated in your opening post that we shouldn't eat fish. :rolleyes:

The post was not an answer to any other posts. Just making people aware of some of the major problems associated with buying fish. As consumers we mostly don't see beyond the supermarket.
The fisheries and aquaculture sector significantly expanded in the past decades and total production, trade and consumption reached an all-time record in 2018.
I said we don't need to eat fish.

general situation of world fish stocks pdf from a few years ago.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.fao.org/newsroom/common/ecg/1000505/en/stocks.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwics_it76zqAhXSuXEKHYm8CYEQFjAAegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw0CDPmYYEtocN_ol2r7aN_V

Hamsterchops

Captain Birdseye.

auspicious

auspicious wrote: »

The post was not an answer to any other posts. Just making people aware of some of the major problems associated with buying fish. As consumers we mostly don't see beyond the supermarket.
The fisheries and aquaculture sector significantly expanded in the past decades and total production, trade and consumption reached an all-time record in 2018.
I said we don't need to eat fish.

general situation of world fish stocks pdf from a few years ago.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.fao.org/newsroom/common/ecg/1000505/en/stocks.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwics_it76zqAhXSuXEKHYm8CYEQFjAAegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw0CDPmYYEtocN_ol2r7aN_V

What's this bleeding "we" business about supermarkets? Most people replying to this evening buy their fish in properly run fish shops- not supermarkets.

You open a thread on the perils of eating fish and lecture us all to "stop eating fish" because you've probably just woken up to the fact or read it on twitter or something, that over-fishing is not really clever- and you thought you'd tell all us fish eaters about it- not knowing that we all know that the industrial style rape of the seas has been going on for decades and that what some of us are trying to do is instil an appreciation of fish, to grow and support a sustainable fish industry in Ireland and beyond- it's obvious you don't eat fish- and you know what, we're all better off as a result- stay away from fish auspicious- they don't like you and you don't like them- and we'll all get on well .

auspicious

Supermarkets just a generalisation. I wasn't bothered to list all the places consumers buy it. 'We' as in consumers, as I am. Plenty of people reading this buy it in a supermarket.
I've known about overfishing for years. Perhaps many people don't know the true state of affairs so I posted about it. I didn't offer an opinion on it, just stats and facts.
From many posts on here we see that stocks are not what they used to be. The population is increasing and the resources are diminishing. Perhaps there may be no easy return after a tipping point as is general scientific consensus.
And I understand people get plenty upset when you challenge their food habits. We are habitual creatures after all.

auspicious

auspicious wrote: »

Supermarkets just a generalisation. I wasn't bothered to list all the places consumers buy it. 'We' as in consumers, as I am. Plenty of people reading this buy it in a supermarket.
I've known about overfishing for years. Perhaps many people don't know the true state of affairs so I posted about it. I didn't offer an opinion on it, just stats and facts.
From many posts on here we see that stocks are not what they used to be. The population is increasing and the resources are diminishing. Perhaps there may be no easy return after a tipping point as is general scientific consensus.
And I understand people get plenty upset when you challenge their food habits. We are habitual creatures after all.

I'm not "upset". I'm just curious to know why you are "ranting" now - all that you've said has been known for decades. Had you started a thread around "the future of the fishing industry and how it could become sustainable" or something, I might have been more open to contributing positively but all your posts are about "demonising" people who eat fish- which is illustrated perfectly with the responses you've received over the first few pages- so it's not just me reacting to your posts- take a look at the first few pages yourself.

I'm eating fish this weekend. It will be caught in Ireland and it's from a sustainable source. However, I can't guarantee that its gut won't contain micro-plastics- to me, that's far more worrying and long-term. We're killing the seas with all sorts of nonsense - over-fishing of certain stocks is horribly, the least of our problems right now.

auspicious

Not demonising anyone. Again, I'm just pointing out the state of affairs. If you read between the lines, I'm sure, my offered suggestion to sustainability would be to eat less fish. Or eat none. One poster did ask me what's the alternative? Why does there need to be an alternative. I suppose it boils down to as I said
to habit. The trawlers are out there only to supply the demand.

The overfishing of certain stocks weakens the larger 'network ' of biodiversity.

You'll probably be alright with microplastics. It's childern I'd be cautious about feeding fish to. We still haven't got to the bottom of the biological impacts of microplastics yet.

begbysback

Can we not just genetically modify the fish, bigger tastier fish, if they become short in supply?

joseywhales

Are the sustainable labels on fish produce not there to prevent this issue?

CBear1993

Should we all just become vegans and stop eating meat, fish and poultry ? Genuine question OP. With the growing global population do you see the only answer as us to turn plant- based? I thought I saw somewhere that even with that the world can’t keep up with crops etc.

auspicious

auspicious wrote: »

You'll probably be alright with microplastics. .

OK randomer on the interweb- I’ll take your word for it :pac:

auspicious

There's just so so so much information on the web that if one was to take a few hours a week to research the topic you'd find the answer pretty quickly. Veganism helps your health, the environment and biodiversity. The word vegan has become a loaded word; the status quo has railed against it so much that people don't know what to think. The primary concern of the majority is not wanting to change the habits of a lifetime i.e. eating what they like and what they were taught to like even though being told that the current research has identified it as one of the main contributors to the decline of the environment and hence biodiversity.
It's not hard at all to eat plant-based. Plant based food is the fastest growing line in the food industry. The bottom line is it requires a fraction of the resources, land, water, energy, we currently use to produce meat. A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth.

"If we all went vegan, the world’s food-related emissions would drop by 70% by 2050 according to a recent report on food and climate in the journal Proceedings of National Academy of Sciences (PNAS). The study’s authors from Oxford University put the economic value of these emissions savings at around £440 billion"
https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/howto/guide/what-would-world-look-if-everyone-went-vegan

auspicious

auspicious wrote: »

There's just so so so much information on the web that if one was to take a few hours a week to research the topic you'd find the answer pretty quickly. Veganism helps your health, the environment and biodiversity. The word vegan has become a loaded word; the status quo has railed against it so much that people don't know what to think. The primary concern of the majority is not wanting to change the habits of a lifetime i.e. eating what they like and what they were taught to like even though being told that the current research has identified it as one of the main contributors to the decline of the environment and hence biodiversity.
It's not hard at all to eat plant-based. Plant based food is the fastest growing line in the food industry. The bottom line is it requires a fraction of the resources, land, water, energy, we currently use to produce meat. A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth.

"If we all went vegan, the world’s food-related emissions would drop by 70% by 2050 according to a recent report on food and climate in the journal Proceedings of National Academy of Sciences (PNAS). The study’s authors from Oxford University put the economic value of these emissions savings at around £440 billion"
https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/howto/guide/what-would-world-look-if-everyone-went-vegan

So this is what this rubbish thread is all about- it’s not about fish fingers, or Donegal catch or Capt. Birdseye- it’s another bleeding vegan thread- well you can take your feicin trolly vegan thread and eat it while you’re looking through your microscope looking for your the teats to milk your bleedin almonds

begbysback

Man is not meant to be vegan, this is obvious with the need to supplement if on a vegan diet.

auspicious

Deleted User wrote: »

So this is what this rubbish thread is all about- it’s not about fish fingers, or Donegal catch or Capt. Birdseye- it’s another bleeding vegan thread- well you can take your feicin trolly vegan thread and eat it while you’re looking through your microscope looking for your the teats to milk your bleedin almonds

No it's about the decline of oceanic biodiversity. The above post was a response to the question posed by Cbear1993. I'm in a position to address her/his query.
And another vegan thread? Show me where they are. I haven't seen many. Go look at the vegan forum. It's dead. The idea of minimising our daily impact is struggling to keep it's head above the water.
As I said before some people don't care and not enough do. Thankfully the younger generations are embracing their future.

auspicious

begbysback wrote: »

Man is not meant to be vegan, this is obvious with the need to supplement if on a vegan diet.

One supplement b12.
All people over 50 years of age should be supplementing b12 in thier diet. Stomach acid which absorbs b12 declines with age. The Institute of Medicine recommends this.
(Also cows are supplemented with b12 with their cobalt injections.)

wexandproud

auspicious wrote: »

The UN FAO monitors six hundred fish stocks globally and according to its 2018 Aquaculture report 93% are overexploited, fully exploited or depleted.
The 2030 Agenda's ambitions for a better world will be compromised if we continue to push stocks to the limit.
Hundreds millions of livelihoods depend on fisheries in costal regions. 95% of fishermen live in developing countries.
Industrial fishing's powerful lobbyists push for quotas far beyond scientifically assessed recommendations.
Upwards of $20billion is forked out by governments in subsidies mainly to industrial fishers to cover running costs such as fuel and equipment. These subsidies have grown the world fishing fleet capabilities to two and a half times larger than the maximum sustainable catch.

of course an aquaculture report would never exaggerate over fishing to paint a bleak picture the state of fish stocks with a view to encourage people to eat more of the , for the most part sh.te produced in Aquaculture . every body has an agenda
the real facts are that fishermen , and im speaking about irish european ones , the one who actually spend time at sea are seeing more and more fish and indeed due to quotas and in the name of conservation have been dumping more and more fish that is allegedly not there , ''scientist'' then crying ohhhh there's less and less fish being landed so they must be all gone

Hoop66

Ultima Thule wrote: »

Dont care, bought lots of fish today, prawns, hake fillets, and breaded cod..
Cant wait for the mackerel season, grab 20+fish at a time. Wont know what to do with it all. Sandwiches and bait probably.

I've a cracking recipe for mackerel pate - that's what I usually do with the excess.

auspicious

wexandproud wrote: »

of course an aquaculture report would never exaggerate over fishing to paint a bleak picture the state of fish stocks with a view to encourage people to eat more of the , for the most part sh.te produced in Aquaculture . every body has an agenda
the real facts are that fishermen , and im speaking about irish european ones , the one who actually spend time at sea are seeing more and more fish and indeed due to quotas and in the name of conservation have been dumping more and more fish that is allegedly not there , ''scientist'' then crying ohhhh there's less and less fish being landed so they must be all gone

Well let's hope that's true and they publish a strong overarching paper which challenges the widely accepted scientific views.
Let's hope also that no more net or fishing line is lost. But yeah that's not going to happen. Many different species get caught up in nets and die by drowning or strangulation. Species like penguins, seals, albatrosses, whales, dolphins, turtles. The impact is huge. That's why I don't buy fish. Because of the consequences. Purchasing and meal choices contribute to it.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://theconversation.com/amp/penguins-under-threat-from-drowning-in-fishing-nets-88308&ved=2ahUKEwj87-_eqa7qAhW9SBUIHdaRDq0QFjARegQIChAB&usg=AOvVaw089o6cvY4lh8Vo6K3c-Bnz&ampcf=1&cshid=1593684693046

https://www.seashepherdglobal.org/latest-news/marine-debris-plastic-fishing-gear/

riffmongous

wexandproud wrote: »

of course an aquaculture report would never exaggerate over fishing to paint a bleak picture the state of fish stocks with a view to encourage people to eat more of the , for the most part sh.te produced in Aquaculture . every body has an agenda
the real facts are that fishermen , and im speaking about irish european ones , the one who actually spend time at sea are seeing more and more fish and indeed due to quotas and in the name of conservation have been dumping more and more fish that is allegedly not there , ''scientist'' then crying ohhhh there's less and less fish being landed so they must be all gone

Some proof for that please

Thelonious Monk

riffmongous wrote: »

Some proof for that please

sure he talks to the fishermen, what would an international panel of researchers and scientists know?

wexandproud

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

sure he talks to the fishermen, what would an international panel of researchers and scientists know?

they'd know a lot more than the researcher's know and it was only when some of them proved the huge shoals of mackerel existed but had moved further north did ices admit their mistake and reviewed their figures . there's plenty of reading on the internet about it
if another poster wants proof , go down any pier and ask the fisherman about the amount of fish on the ground . how can i prove what other guys are seeing .

auspicious

A short 7min video on some other important consequences of buying fish.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UfZ4vCx3pF4

auspicious

The number of sharks found in the open oceans has plunged by 71% over half a century, mainly due to over-fishing.Researchers say immediate action is needed.
70% reduction in the last 50 years.
Of the 31 species studied, 24 are now threatened with extinction.Sharks and rays turn up by accident in the catch of fishing boats that are targeting other stocks.
Of the 31 species studied, 24 are now threatened with extinction.
We urgently need conservation action across the globe to prevent myriad negative consequences and secure a brighter future for these extraordinary, irreplaceable animals.

Why do so many of us find it such an imposition to not contribute to the probable extinction of species by way of our consumerism?

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-55830732

auspicious

auspicious wrote: »

Why do so many of us find it such an imposition to not contribute to the probable extinction of species by way of our consumerism?

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-55830732

Because you've focused on a country with a relatively small population, and an even more limited consumer base for eating fish.. as opposed to the larger countries which tend to import large quantities.

The Irish fishing industry is tiny in comparison to other countries. Perhaps you should consider going on to some Spanish, or Chinese forums to pitch your beliefs? The small number of consumers in Ireland are highly unlikely to make any real difference to the collection/sale of fish in Europe or the world, nor would the loss of our fishing industry.

Head off to Iceland. They've got a much more established fishing industry, and I'm sure they would welcome your input.

Cluedo Monopoly

We are the real virus.

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

Because you've focused on a country with a relatively small population, and an even more limited consumer base for eating fish.. as opposed to the larger countries which tend to import large quantities.

The Irish fishing industry is tiny in comparison to other countries. Perhaps you should consider going on to some Spanish, or Chinese forums to pitch your beliefs? The small number of consumers in Ireland are highly unlikely to make any real difference to the collection/sale of fish in Europe or the world, nor would the loss of our fishing industry.

Head off to Iceland. They've got a much more established fishing industry, and I'm sure they would welcome your input.

Ireland contributes to the demise of our seas too though, just because it doesn't destroy as much as China does, it doesn't make it irrelevant.
Bottom trawling for scallops etc still goes on which ruins the ecosystem for many different species.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Ireland contributes to the demise of our seas too though, just because it doesn't destroy as much as China does, it doesn't make it irrelevant.
Bottom trawling for scallops etc still goes on which ruins the ecosystem for many different species.

Sure, but if Ireland stopped fishing, it would simply be replaced with another country/business fishing the same area. It would require a ban that affected the whole region... and I don't see that happening.

Thelonious Monk

Have a read of this. We could stop the likes of this and have healthier seas in Ireland. Regardless of what they're doing in other countries.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/destruction-of-marine-biodiversity-on-beara-peninsula-1.3940704

auspicious

'Cape cormorants are listed as endangered by the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN), due to the steep declines seen in their numbers over the past three generations.

This is widely believed to be a result of declining stocks of small fish such as sardines and anchovies.

According to Sanccob's research manager Katta Ludynia, the abandonment of the chicks on Robben Island is likely to be a result of a current shortage of food.

Numbers of the much-loved African penguin, which like the Cape cormorant relies heavily on sardines and anchovies for its survival, have also plummeted in recent decades, from around 150,000 breeding pairs in the 1950s to just 13,300 in 2019.'
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-55885608

'Many marine fish species – including the Madeiran sardine – are in danger of global extinction due to overfishing along the coast of western and central Africa, threatening food security in the region, according to the Eastern Central Atlantic Red List of Threatened Species published today by IUCN (International Union for Conservation of Nature).'
https://www.iucn.org/news/secretariat/201701/overfishing-threatens-food-security-africa%E2%80%99s-western-and-central-coast-many-fish-species-region-face-extinction-%E2%80%93-iucn-report#:~:text=Many%20marine%20fish%20species%20%E2%80%93%20including,today%20by%20IUCN%20(International%20Union

Overfishing is rife worldwide.
We do not need to add pressure to the teetering balance of sea life.
Here in the West especially we have alternative sources of nutrition.
The next generation will be too late to address the decline.

jcon1913

Has anyone watched ‘Seaspiracy’ on Netflix? Its a very interesting documentary about the oceans and specifically about fish and the damage the commercial fishing industry is doing