Audi e-tron

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

What makes you say that? There is nothing wrong with the battery, motor or drivetrain from the VW group cars like the Etrons or the Taycans

Other than ridiculous inefficiency?

Lumen

ELM327 wrote: »

Other than ridiculous inefficiency?

I'm not convinced that the Taycan is inefficient.

Car and Driver wrote:

Our range test at 75 mph between a Taycan Turbo S and a Tesla Model S Performance showed near parity between the two, with just a 13-mile difference in range versus the 134-mile difference in EPA figures.

Car and Driver wrote:

Porsche told us that the usable figure is actually 83.7 kWh. That means the Model S packs 17 percent more energy onboard, rather than the 5 percent initially indicated

Sources:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30874032/porsche-taycan-range-test-tesla-model-s/

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32255511/porsche-taycan-epa-range-voluntarily-lowered/

ELM327

That Tesla is an old model though. Compare it to the new S.

The new etron RS GT for instance, pretty much pound for pound matches the P85D model S from 2014.

Lumen

ELM327 wrote: »

That Tesla is an old model though. Compare it to the new S.

OK, but the point of those independent* tests is that they show the EPA numbers of Porsche and Tesla do not reflect their real-world range (and presumably therefore economy).

* I know that automotive journalism is basically corrupt, but so is Elon. I trust Nyland but I don't think he's had enough access to Taycans in different conditions and configurations to generate data to his usual standards.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

Other than ridiculous inefficiency?

Efficiency is overrated. Important in a car with a tiny battery like Ioniq 28kWh but not so much in EVs with >80kWh. Far more important to have very fast charging capabilities and of course a good fast charging network

ELM327

Lumen wrote: »

OK, but the point of those independent* tests is that they show the EPA numbers of Porsche and Tesla do not reflect their real-world range (and presumably therefore economy).

* I know that automotive journalism is basically corrupt, but so is Elon. I trust Nyland but I don't think he's had enough access to Taycans in different conditions and configurations to generate data to his usual standards.

EPA/WLTP are standardized methods of testing, it's not possible to overstate the range (though you can understate).

unkel wrote: »

Efficiency is overrated. Important in a car with a tiny battery like Ioniq 28kWh but not so much in EVs with >80kWh. Far more important to have very fast charging capabilities and of course a good fast charging network

Yes you are right, but when the likes of the taycan have neither efficiency nor a fast charging network, it becomes important.

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

That Tesla is an old model though. Compare it to the new S.

The new etron RS GT for instance, pretty much pound for pound matches the P85D model S from 2014.

The linked test is a 2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo S vs a 2020 Tesla Model S Performance which resulted in 209 miles for the Taycan and 222 for the Model S.
Versus the two car's EPA ratings of 192 miles and 326 miles.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

The linked test is a 2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo S vs a 2020 Tesla Model S Performance which resulted in 209 miles for the Taycan and 222 for the Model S.
Versus the two car's EPA ratings of 192 miles and 326 miles.

Yes but the 2020 Model S is a 2018 model. Wait till the newer ones come out. The Plaid+ is cheaper and faster than the taycan and has double the WLTP range.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes you are right, but when the likes of the taycan have neither efficiency nor a fast charging network, it becomes important.

They do have a fast charging network though, with Ionity alone. Nowhere near as good as the Tesla supercharging network and it is crazy expensive, but it has good charging speeds, is expanding and presumably will improve

I presume we are talking about Europe here and in particular, Germany. Not the USA.

Lumen

ELM327 wrote: »

EPA/WLTP are standardized methods of testing, it's not possible to overstate the range (though you can understate).

It is also possible to overstate the standardization of at least EPA tests, which are self-certified and have several alternative approaches.

I can't remember whether WLTP suffers the same issue, but from what I do remember WLTP ranges are supposed to be based on (a) performance at temperatures much higher than are typical in Ireland, by at least 10C, and (b) speeds which are much lower than the speeds at which people generally care about range (motorway speeds).

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

They do have a fast charging network though, with Ionity alone. Nowhere near as good as the Tesla supercharging network and it is crazy expensive, but it has good charging speeds, is expanding and presumably will improve

I presume we are talking about Europe here and in particular, Germany. Not the USA.

They do but it's not as well supported as Tesla, and not nearly as reliable.
Same as EA in the US. They have good coverage but it's not good enough if 1/2 of the 4-6 units work at each site.

The benefit of the Suc network is that you plug in and it works.

catharsis

ELM327 wrote: »

They do but it's not as well supported as Tesla, and not nearly as reliable.
Same as EA in the US. They have good coverage but it's not good enough if 1/2 of the 4-6 units work at each site.

The benefit of the Suc network is that you plug in and it works.

would you mind detailing for me the number of SuC sites and Ionity sites in Ireland ?

I have used Ionoty sites many times for My Model 3 - never yet found a reason to use the SuC "network" you refer to ....

markpb

catharsis wrote: »

would you mind detailing for me the number of SuC sites and Ionity sites in Ireland ?

I have used Ionoty sites many times for My Model 3 - never yet found a reason to use the SuC "network" you refer to ....

There’s not a huge difference between them in Ireland. Both have the M1 and M8, Tesla have the M7 while Ionity have the M6 and M11. Neither are very comprehensive in isolation. Ionity on the M1 and M7 aren’t well located (too close to Dublin). Tesla on the M7 is equally poorly chosen. The M3 is forgotten about.

However, I’m fairly sure Elm was talking about the Tesla network in the US and EU which is much more comprehensive than here.

unkel

We're all agreed on the superiority of the Tesla supercharger network in the USA. If you need to do massive trips over there, buy a Tesla.

In Ireland there's very little in it, who needs to charge much publicly on this small island anyway if you're getting an EV with an 80kW battery (the minimum in all cars mentioned, Tesla Model S or any Taycan or Etron GT. In these cars' home market, Germany, it could be argued that the Ionity charging network alone could very well have more charging locations than Tesla in a few years time

ELM327

catharsis wrote: »

would you mind detailing for me the number of SuC sites and Ionity sites in Ireland ?

I have used Ionoty sites many times for My Model 3 - never yet found a reason to use the SuC "network" you refer to ....

This basket case banana republic is not representative of the main EU.

Lumen

ELM327 wrote: »

This basket case banana republic is not representative of the main EU.

I'm not sure which is more relevant right now, the fact that we're not allowed to leave the country except in very limited circumstances, or the fact that we're not allowed to drive as far as the nearest fast charger except in very limited circumstances. :pac:

If we imagine some bright future where we're able to do either, I struggle to reason about the choice of V/A/S/P products with Ionity vs Tesla with its superchargers.

I know that the most flexible choice is to stick with Tesla because then I can charge at either, but right now I only use Tesla chargers a couple of times a year, on local holidays (compared to about once a week with Ionity).

In terms of running costs, I would be better off with a Taycan than a Model 3 right now because I'd have cheaper Ionity charging. But then I'd have spent 35k more on the car, which is about 300,000km of differential Ionity charging costs!

So the sensible choice is to buy the cheaper car (Tesla) that has more fast charging options even if they are often more expensive.

If only Tesla could put in a handful more supercharging locations like they'd damn well promised this would be a non-conversation, like it is in other countries.

(I know this is an Audi thread, but some of the same logic applies. If Ionity develops a good network then it won't matter that the cars have less range and are thirsty, I'd buy one for the silence and looks)

Cyrus

ELM327 wrote: »

This basket case banana republic is not representative of the main EU.

it is where most of us do 99% of our driving though

Cyrus

new S in the country

i have to say it doesnt look massively better than a regular black packed e tron, not sure what is going on with the suspension either!

nice motor though

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/audi/e-tron/fpa/202102159084309?journey=Search

bf

Another Typhoon Grey for the club. Picked up at the weekend, very happy with it so far!

Cyrus

nice, enjoy it

daithihalton

Congrats, best of luck with it

Kramer

bf wrote: »

Another Typhoon Grey for the club. Picked up at the weekend, very happy with it so far!

Well wear .

slave1

Noice, do you get to use the fast chargers at Audi dealers? there's one in Athlone and I've never seen a car hooked up to it ever

AmberGold

Good luck with it BF, beautiful car to drive.

They must be selling no 55's at all. There was none listed on Carzone last time I looked.

Cyrus

AmberGold wrote: »

Good luck with it BF, beautiful car to drive.

They must be selling no 55's at all. There was none listed on Carzone last time I looked.

its a lot more money for not a huge amount of extra range or power really.

ELM327

If I were buying an etron I think the 55 is the best compromise between range and cost.

AmberGold

ELM327 wrote: »

If I were buying an etron I think the 55 is the best compromise between range and cost.

50?

ELM327

That's the cheapest.
Not enough range though and charges too slowly.
The 55 charges at 150kW to >80% and >50kW to 99%.

Hence why the 55 is the best compromise.

Cyrus

ELM327 wrote: »

That's the cheapest.
Not enough range though and charges too slowly.
The 55 charges at 150kW to >80% and >50kW to 99%.

Hence why the 55 is the best compromise.

because of the size of the battery in the 50 the charging time is equivalent, i.e. to go from 20% - 80% takes the same amount of time for both.

Id argue the extra range in the 55 isnt worth 20k but depends on your usage.

ELM327

Absolutely. But when the 55 can struggle to get 220km in winter (see Kris Rifa recent videos on youtube) I'd not want to be charging every 160km in the 50. I could do that 3 years ago in my Ioniq!