Out of warranty faulty laptop - should I go to small claims court?

ronivek

Is the fleck definitely metallic? It seems a little unusual that a manufacturing fault of this nature would only manifest after a significant period of time has elapsed.

Also when you removed the RAM from the affected slot; did you also swap it with the RAM in the "good" slot to validate it's not just the RAM module itself which is the issue?

floorpie

ronivek wrote: »

Is the fleck definitely metallic?

I'm not certain that it's metallic, but under a lens and light it has the same "specularity" as all the other metal around it. I don't want to continuity test it to check.

I know for sure that it's stuck. It could be melted plastic, but either way, RAM connectors shouldn't be getting to a temperature that would melt anything. I can also see that it's smoothly connected to two pins (my pic in post #26 sort of shows this https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113910528&postcount=26).

Also when you removed the RAM from the affected slot; did you also swap it with the RAM in the "good" slot to validate it's not just the RAM module itself which is the issue?

With further testing, the RAM module that was in there is also broken. I don't want to test the other module much until I know Dell wont help (they're 16GB each so near 100e).

Here's a datasheet for a DDR4 SO-DIMM for anyone who's interested: https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/global.semi/file/resource/2018/05/DDR4_8Gb_C_die_Unbuffered_SODIMM_Rev1.5_Apr.18.pdf

It's pins 90-100: ECC lines (which aren't connected), data strobes, data lines, ground. I don't know how grounded pins on the board could break RAM. Their Alienware laptops will automatically manage RAM voltage, but I can't find how XPSs set voltages. Perhaps it alters voltages if the RAM is unstable, I don't know.

It seems a little unusual that a manufacturing fault of this nature would only manifest after a significant period of time has elapsed.

I've had this same issue from the start, perhaps once a month, every two months. It's only since the latest update that it's consistently happening. I agree though that it is unusual.

ronivek

Also; what was in the automatic update? Did it include a BIOS update? It could be that they've added some additional RAM verification during POST... although I would probably expect some indication of an error code in that case.

The only other thing that jumps to mind is that sometimes small insect parts can become desiccated and "attach" to things; although usually you would find other evidence of insects if that was the case. I would expect it to be quite fragile if that was the case too.

In any case I think the cheapest approach would probably be to go the Small Claims route and argue something like:

• Has had an intermittent freezing issue since it was purchased; but it was "manageable" until recently and thus no contact was made with Dell.
• A forced Dell update suddenly caused the system to freeze every time it was powered on.
• Removing one of the RAM modules appears to fix the constant freezing issue.
• Noted what appears to be a manufacturing defect to the slot where the faulty RAM module sat.

I would be surprised if Dell didn't resolve it for you once they're notified by the court clerk anyway.

floorpie

Thanks!

ronivek wrote: »

Also; what was in the automatic update? Did it include a BIOS update? It could be that they've added some additional RAM verification during POST... although I would probably expect some indication of an error code in that case.

Yeah it updated everything: bios, drivers for every component, Windows update. It doesn't give an error in POST but it does now give a critical memory error in their built-in diagnostics thing that boots after crashes. I've read that Window's boot manager will log bad memory addresses and not use them, so perhaps it was doing this and the updates cleared the log, though I doubt it.

Further point of confusion, MemTest86 finds no errors for either module even though Dell's simple test does

paul71

shane. wrote: »

Would removing the cover underneath not void your warranty?

A warranty is not relevent to your statutory protections.

XMG

If you have no joy and end up having to keep it give your fans a bit off a clean and blow out the dust while you have it open

floorpie

XMG wrote: »

If you have no joy and end up having to keep it give your fans a bit off a clean and blow out the dust while you have it open

Thanks. The airflow is terrible imo. It has two big sponges that press up against the bottom case and, rather than filter dust and particles, trap it and push it against the heatsinks. 2018 Macbook Pros have a very similar heatsink/fan/CPU/GPU placement but don't seem to need those sponges.

floorpie

Update...

I left some details out from my initial post that I didn't realise were important until now. I bought this laptop with my own money, for my own personal use, but for ease of purchase and delivery I had it bought/delivered by/to the organization I'm in. I use it for my work (I'm a student) but it's not a "work laptop" per se (e.g. if I quit tomorrow it's still mine).

Dell noticed the delivery address and are now admitting that Irish purchasers do have statutory rights which extend beyond a warranty (they claimed otherwise before), but that I have no statutory rights as it was a B2B purchase. I'm dubious that a purchase being "for business" means that it's OK if it's shoddy, but I understand now that SOGA probably doesn't apply.

I guess I'm in the wrong subforum now Thanks all for the help

seagull

Tell them to catch a wake up, and that it's not a B2B sale. It doesn't matter that it was delivered to a business address. Many people have personal deliveries directed to their place of work because they know that someone will be there when the delivery is made. Even if it was B2B, SOGA still applies.

ronivek

floorpie wrote: »

Update...

I left some details out from my initial post that I didn't realise were important until now. I bought this laptop with my own money, for my own personal use, but for ease of purchase and delivery I had it bought/delivered by/to the organization I'm in. I use it for my work (I'm a student) but it's not a "work laptop" per se (e.g. if I quit tomorrow it's still mine).

You purchased the laptop and it’s for private use; I don’t see how this affects your statutory rights w.r.t. a small claims court proceeding.

Dell claiming it wasn’t a private sale because of the shipping address again has no bearing on your statutory rights: they can say whatever they want to try and shirk their responsibility but if I were a cynical man I might suggest this is how some managers and staff will try and save money by fobbing people off and hoping they don’t pursue things.

floorpie

seagull wrote: »

Tell them to catch a wake up, and that it's not a B2B sale. It doesn't matter that it was delivered to a business address. Many people have personal deliveries directed to their place of work because they know that someone will be there when the delivery is made. Even if it was B2B, SOGA still applies.

ronivek wrote: »

You purchased the laptop and it’s for private use; I don’t see how this affects your statutory rights w.r.t. a small claims court proceeding.

Dell claiming it wasn’t a private sale because of the shipping address again has no bearing on your statutory rights: they can say whatever they want to try and shirk their responsibility but if I were a cynical man I might suggest this is how some managers and staff will try and save money by fobbing people off and hoping they don’t pursue things.

It wasn't just the delivery address though, it was purchased BY the uni, under my name and with my funds, but....by the uni. I'll try get more details about the nature of this purchase. None of this had crossed my mind at all until talking to Dell there.

Re: small claims, even if I'm entitled to make a claim as a "business purchaser", I couldn't make a claim if I had to do it as a representative of the business, because I'm not one. If I can still do it as a private consumer then I would.

ronivek

floorpie wrote: »

It wasn't just the delivery address though, it was purchased BY the uni, under my name and with my funds, but....by the uni. I'll try get more details about the nature of this purchase. None of this had crossed my mind at all until talking to Dell there.

Re: small claims, even if I'm entitled to make a claim as a "business purchaser", I couldn't make a claim if I had to do it as a representative of the business, because I'm not one. If I can still do it as a private consumer then I would.

I’m no lawyer but if your University ‘sold’ you the laptop then I would expect your claim to be against them; Dell is merely a supplier in the transaction. Have you contacted your University’s store or IT department?

floorpie

ronivek wrote: »

I’m no lawyer but if your University ‘sold’ you the laptop then I would expect your claim to be against them; Dell is merely a supplier in the transaction. Have you contacted your University’s store or IT department?

Yeah, they just say that they don't have any agreements with Dell with respect to purchases or warranties etc. I know for sure that they'd pay to have it fixed if I said I couldn't afford it for example, but it'd be as a favour rather than because it's a business asset, which it isn't. I think I'll have to find out exactly how they purchased it before I take any further steps. I'm still dubious that businesses are expected to be on the hook for (what I see as) a defective product, but this seems to be the case beyond a certain time period

ronivek

floorpie wrote: »

Yeah, they just say that they don't have any agreements with Dell with respect to purchases or warranties etc. I know for sure that they'd pay to have it fixed if I said I couldn't afford it for example, but it'd be as a favour rather than because it's a business asset, which it isn't. I think I'll have to find out exactly how they purchased it before I take any further steps. I'm still dubious that businesses are expected to be on the hook for (what I see as) a defective product, but this seems to be the case beyond a certain time period

Maybe I’m missing something but I think the way your University is setup for this isn’t doing anyone any favours. They don’t seem to have any service agreement in place and at the same time they’re selling laptops which they’re purchasing on behalf of students; which leaves the student worse off than if they purchased directly.

I see where your coming from in terms of not wanting to seem to be taking advantage or causing problems for them but equally this was not a cheap purchase for you and you’re certainly not in the kind of position they are in terms of absorbing any losses.

floorpie

ronivek wrote: »

Maybe I’m missing something but I think the way your University is setup for this isn’t doing anyone any favours. They don’t seem to have any service agreement in place and at the same time they’re selling laptops which they’re purchasing on behalf of students; which leaves the student worse off than if they purchased directly.

I see where your coming from in terms of not wanting to seem to be taking advantage or causing problems for them but equally this was not a cheap purchase for you and you’re certainly not in the kind of position they are in terms of absorbing any losses.

I feel like I'm also missing something I'll post any updates