Time to put respect on Steve Bruce's name?

SlickRic

42 points.

Safe.

I ridiculed the appointment. He's seemed no more than a journeyman manager, but he's pulled a decent season out.

I'm a huge fan of Rafa, and thought they were doomed. But how wrong I was.

Is Bruce actually decent? Did Rafa leave him better tools then we thought? Is the League just píss poor when you get to the bottom 8 or so?

What do you all reckon?

Mushy

SlickRic wrote: »

42 points.

Safe.

I ridiculed the appointment. He's seemed no more than a journeyman manager, but he's pulled a decent season out.

I'm a huge fan of Rafa, and thought they were doomed. But how wrong I was.

Is Bruce actually decent? Did Rafa leave him better tools then we thought? Is the League just píss poor when you get to the bottom 8 or so?

What do you all reckon?

I think he has over performed this season, I'd find it hard to say exactly why, likely a combination of a lot of things.

Dont think would want him as manager at Leeds, but have endured worse so if happened at least theres something hopeful to point to.

Do think the league is poor standard of about last 8 teams (even outside the top 2 could be argued, but some teams have turned things around mid season and others have performedabove expectations). I find its rarer that bottom teams will beat top teams, which seemed more frequent years ago. That and the standards achieved by Liverpool and City would make majority of teams seem poor.

Harry Palmr

Newcastle supporters seem to find the football a bit of a chore and last night was of course massively atypical - down to Bournemouth throwing the towel in on that game after about 5 minutes.

Clearly on his own terms Bruce has done pretty well but if he was that good wouldn't that attack have more consistency by now? There'a decent raw material up top but it's very fitful at 33 goals in this side so far.

PARlance

It's been good but not sure it'll start trending.

#SteveBruceMatters

Liam O

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Newcastle supporters seem to find the football a bit of a chore and last night was of course massively atypical - down to Bournemouth throwing the towel in on that game after about 5 minutes.

Clearly on his own terms Bruce has done pretty well but if he was that good wouldn't that attack have more consistency by now? There'a decent raw material up top but it's very fitful at 33 goals in this side so far.

What's your opinion on Rafa and his time at Newcastle?

Harry Palmr

Did well in the circumstances - which is my report card for every manager having to deal with Mike Ashley.

y0ssar1an22

newcastle got 45 points last season. they are on 42 so far this season so will get a better total than last season.

i think he's in the same bracket as many of his peers, that revolving door of managers. i dont think he gets the credit he deserves, especially from the newcastle fans.

maybe big sam had a point when he said if he was called sam allerdichi he would have a better job (something to that effect). there's nothing glamorous about these managers, will never get a big job (moyes excepted, although he did get everton top 4).

i dont exactly know why that is. the glamour is certainly part of it. maybe the brand of football they play? not even sure thats a fair comment.
being able to attract top continental players is another issue i think.

Fromvert

Has done a very good job, had thought Newcastle would really struggle after losing Rafa, Rondon and Perez. Safely midtable and could possibly squeak a top half finish but have a tough enough run in with City, Liverpool and Spurs to play. If a takeover happens and he gets fired he's very likely got himself a shot at another PL job due to how well he's done. And he seems like an extremely nice guy.

y0ssar1an22

Fromvert wrote: »

Has done a very good job, had thought Newcastle would really struggle after losing Rafa, Rondon and Perez. Safely midtable and could possibly squeak a top half finish but have a tough enough run in with City, Liverpool and Spurs to play. If a takeover happens and he gets fired he's very likely got himself a shot at another PL job due to how well he's done. And he seems like an extremely nice guy.

if new owners come in, he'll be given his marching orders. even if they finished top 6, he would still be sacked i reckon.

also looks like he enjoys a pint!

dfx-

Everyone is comparing the points total, but how much more did he get to spend that Benitez in the Summer? He spent 55m on Joelinton and Saint-Maximin with five goals between them.

CSF

He is really really bad but he has done a pretty good job with Newcastle this year, so credit where it is due.

rob316

Actually don't mind Bruce, honest enough fella, fairly likable as a coach. Don't think hes as bad as people make out. Tough job there walking into that basket case of a club replacing a very popular manager. The first season is the easy part he'll have to kick on now and especially if new owners are coming in.

paddythere

Bruce has always been a good manager. He never gets the credit he deserves.

kowloonkev

dfx- wrote: »

Everyone is comparing the points total, but how much more did he get to spend that Benitez in the Summer? He spent 55m on Joelinton and Saint-Maximin with five goals between them.

Then you are saying his recruitment was horrible but he's done a better coaching job than Rafa at Newcastle?

~Rebel~

kowloonkev wrote: »

Then you are saying his recruitment was horrible but he's done a better coaching job than Rafa at Newcastle?

I'd say he's done a fairly similar job, all things considered, which in itself is an awful lot better than I expected him to do.

Liam O

dfx- wrote: »

Everyone is comparing the points total, but how much more did he get to spend that Benitez in the Summer? He spent 55m on Joelinton and Saint-Maximin with five goals between them.

How much would they sell Saint-Maximin for now already? Joelinton is fair but I mean it seemed more like it was a scramble for an available striker. He's made Almiron look far better than Rafa did too.

Joelinton is still young too and shows flashes of what he could become, could obviously be a bust though.

~Rebel~

Liam O wrote: »

How much would they sell Saint-Maximin for now already? Joelinton is fair but I mean it seemed more like it was a scramble for an available striker. He's made Almiron look far better than Rafa did too.

Joelinton is still young too and shows flashes of what he could become, could obviously be a bust though.

This one is the opposite - Joelinton seems like it’s one of those dodgy agent transfers... he was lined up forever, with a vastly inflated price. Was being pushed on Rafa who refused to sign him, instead wanting to permanently sign Rondon who was already bedded in and better and cheaper. Was then pushed onto Bruce who went along with it.

Hard to be to harsh on Rafa with Almiron too, he only got him mid-season, so it’s not to surprising Almiron would improve after getting that half season and preseason under his belt. It was only even after a few months into this season that he started performing better. Big step up from the MLS.

dfx-

kowloonkev wrote: »

Then you are saying his recruitment was horrible but he's done a better coaching job than Rafa at Newcastle?

He took over a team that was a midtable, financially choked outfit which got 45-50 points.

He took that team, spent 50m+ on strikers and they are about the same.

Fromvert

dfx- wrote: »

He took over a team that was a midtable, financially choked outfit which got 45-50 points.

He took that team, spent 50m+ on strikers and they are about the same.

He also lost two of Newcastle's best players in Rondon (11 goals) and Perez (12 goals). He didn't get to add 50m to the squad. While having Joelington forced upon him who looks very poor. I was even disappointed last week when Egan pulled him down, should have let him run through and try just put pressure on him. Let a poor player mess it up on their own.

And while Saint-Maximim is frustrating he kind of works for a team that's going to defend their 18 yard box, he can carry it 50m in a few seconds to get you up the pitch.

In my opinion he has taken a worse squad than Rafa had and had them safe with 7 games to go.

Bridge93

Fromvert wrote: »

He also lost two of Newcastle's best players in Rondon (11 goals) and Perez (12 goals). He didn't get to add 50m to the squad. While having Joelington forced upon him who looks very poor. I was even disappointed last week when Egan pulled him down, should have let him run through and try just put pressure on him. Let a poor player mess it up on their own.

And while Saint-Maximim is frustrating he kind of works for a team that's going to defend their 18 yard box, he can carry it 50m in a few seconds to get you up the pitch.

In my opinion he has taken a worse squad than Rafa had and had them safe with 7 games to go.

This sums it up very well. Yes they spent 50m. 40m of that was on one player which was nothing to do with him, has the smell of politics about it and has achieved nothing. All while losing 2 of their best players. Joelinton is a total fraud at premier league level

CSF

Some of the Joelinton criticism is crazy. Lots of people find it tough in their 1st season in England and go on to become great players.

Fromvert

CSF wrote: »

Some of the Joelinton criticism is crazy. Lots of people find it tough in their 1st season in England and go on to become great players.

Nah when you watch him he's pretty poor, gets the ball in some good positions and just makes a mess of it. Now the goal drought and the big money move just compounds the pressure over time and he's in a team that isn't making a lot of chances but he isn't looking like a guy that will turn into a 10-15 goal a season striker. He's missing good chances when he does get them.

PL site has him down as 32 appearances - 47 shots - 15 on target - 8 big chances missed - 2 goals

That's poor any way you slice it

~Rebel~

CSF wrote: »

Some of the Joelinton criticism is crazy. Lots of people find it tough in their 1st season in England and go on to become great players.

He wasn’t even very good in the Austrian and German leagues though... pretty consistently a 1 goal in 5 games player, and the jump to the Prem is a big one. As Rafa said, he was worth no more than 20m at an absolute stretch - cost a club record 40+ million.
All just feels a bit weird.

CSF

~Rebel~ wrote: »

He wasn’t even very good in the Austrian and German leagues though... pretty consistently a 1 goal in 5 games player, and the jump to the Prem is a big one. As Rafa said, he was worth no more than 20m at an absolute stretch - cost a club record 40+ million.
All just feels a bit weird.

I mean he was 18 to 22 between the years in question. He was very highly rated as a prospect within the Bundesliga. I would definitely not be ruling out this guy becoming good over the next few years.

If he goes to Leipzig or Leverkusen who he’d been linked with, he likely gets a whole different footballing education than at Newcastle under Steve Bruce, who from my experience of coaching at Villa, is not the guy to allow a young Brazilian striker to flourish.

I mean it goes without saying that he has not repaid his transfer fee, and he has a lot to prove, but having lads on the internet calling a young South American lads a fraud in their first season in England is everything you ever needed to know about the modern mentality.

The topic title hurts my head a little.

Is "to put respect on" a meme or taken from something like the Sopranos?

Mr.Nice Guy

SlickRic wrote: »

Is the League just píss poor when you get to the bottom 8 or so?

I have said this for a while. Half of the 'big six' currently are led by inexperienced coaches, while some of the lower half clubs are truly dismal. Having said that, Bruce has surpassed my expectations also and I think deserves credit for keeping the club united.

As regards Joelinton, I seem to recall he looked very impressive in the first half of the season at Hoffenheim before he left. He struggled noticeably in the second half. According to Understat, he's the 9th best striker when it comes to expected assists. That pretty much sums up what he's there for. I see him as a Benteke, Long type. Not one you look to for goals as such.

Bridge93

He may well become a great striker down the road as unlikely as it is. The fact remains based on his body of work up to last summer and what he’s done this season, £40m is robbery. The deal was either fishy for some other reasons or negligent from Newcastle’s scouts. The club has spent limited amounts of money the last decade or so and then smash their transfer record on Joelinton

SlickRic

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The topic title hurts my head a little.

Is "to put respect on" a meme or taken from something like the Sopranos?

It's a perhaps shít attempt at a bit of fun. That's all.

Jeez.

L'prof

This is more a response to what you’ve said about Rafa than Bruce but the same could happen to Bruce Down the line. Some players and teams seem to thrive when a new manager comes in and really get behind their ideas then all of a sudden things turn sour and it looks like the team have downed tools. Look at Mourinho at multiple clubs, Ranieiri at Leicester was the most surprising flip flop for me. How can a manger bring a team to win their first premier league one season to being sacked the following season