Timber Frame Garden Room - Screws or Nails

WeekendBuilder

Hi All,

I'm starting work on a 6mx4m Garden room that will be used as an office and family room. I'm reasonably capable so i'm self building from the floor up.

My plan is to erect 150mm x 44mm stud frames (insulated and vapour controlled) on a insulated concrete floor, topping off with an insulated EPDM roof & finish externally (cedar clad/cedral/shingles).

I wondering do I have to use nails for studwork, i know its the best way but i'm wondering if i could use good quality 100mm screws instead?

I had intended on buying/reselling a nailgun but im browning off that idea as its just extra hassle (renting logistically is a pain as i'll be working on weekends).

Thanks

Lumen

Banging nails into studs with a hammer hardly takes any time in the grand scheme. You'll spend far more time measuring and cutting the studs.

You don't need screws or a nailgun.

There's a major advantage to nails in that they will bend a bit, so you can knock the studs around to get everything square and plumb. If you try that with screws they will snap.

GinSoaked

Lumen wrote: »

Banging nails into studs with a hammer hardly takes any time in the grand scheme. You'll spend far more time measuring and cutting the studs.

You don't need screws or a nailgun.

There's a major advantage to nails in that they will bend a bit, so you can knock the studs around to get everything square and plumb. If you try that with screws they will snap.

There's a major advantage with screws that they can be removed easily if you need to square up and replumb.

I've used screws a lot and I've found that they aren't as strong as nails overtime unless you oversize the screws a little bit. Modern screws can be quite brittle so can snap where a nail will bend.

The builder I see quite often uses screws on everything and puts them in with an impact driver. With stud work it can be a lot easier to put screws in the noggins with an impact driver than it is to hammer them in.

Lumen

GinSoaked wrote: »

There's a major advantage with screws that they can be removed easily if you need to square up and replumb.

In framing with nails, if you need to move something a bit you kick it, push it or whack it with a hammer. You can move the joint through brute force. It's a feature, not a bug!

When I start firing screws into things I know I'm doing it wrong.

CaptainCoPilot

Nails are recommended for stud work. Nails are better in shear which is the primary load the fixings in a stud wall face.

That said, the screws you are proposing wont cause your office to collapse. I often use screws to get something held together then bang in the nails to complete the assembly.

Baymax2020

Lumen hit the nail on the head😉. You can use screws to fix adjacent walls together incase you need to make any amendments there. Tack your walls to the base using masonry nails until you are happy everything is square and straight then bang home some express nails. Good luck with the build.

WeekendBuilder

Thanks All for the great advice i'll stick to nails.

If i'm going with the manual hammer approach, any recommendations on what nails i should use?

I might use screws for Noggins as i do have an impact driver

Baymax2020

WeekendBuilder wrote: »

Thanks All for the great advice i'll stick to nails.

If i'm going with the manual hammer approach, any recommendations on what nails i should use?

I might use screws for Noggins as i do have an impact driver

4inch wire nails. Put your noggins in while your wall is on the ground and nail them in makes life easier for yourself, leave the two end noggins out until you have everything stood up and straight then you can screw or nail them in whichever suits you.

WeekendBuilder

Thanks All

WeekendBuilder

Following on from this, I have been getting materials together and in trying to do a good thing i could have walked myself into a spot of bother, by possibly using the wrong screw in treated timber, so i'm reaching out for some guidance once more.

I plan to build the stud work out of treated timber ... and since i was using 90mm Galvanized Nails i wasn't worried over the corroisive effect of treated timber.

Internally i will fix vapour control this using the same stainless steel staples I will use for the external Weather Resistance Barrier, then i will affix untreated 50x44mm timber to forma a service void. I was considering nailing this in place but not sure would a 90mm nail have sufficient purchase to grip into the stud so I was going to use either a 100m Reisser R2 or Cutter to fix the internal battens.

Externally I will sheet with 11 & 18mm OSB with a WRB and then 50mm batten, again here i was going to use a 100mm reisser R2/Cutter screw. The cladding itself will have to be fixed with stainless steel fasteners.


What are folks thoughts on the use of these screws in treated Timber any alternative suggestions?

Lumen

Below is the head of a Wirox-coated Spax screw that has been attaching a 35mm treated batten to the outside of my shed for the last two years.

https://www.spax.com/en/service/technical-terms/wirox/

That material would have you believe that Wirox is better than zinc coating:

> WIROX provides far better corrosion protection compared with bright zinc plating (layer thickness: 4-6 µm under artificial atmospheric corrosion conditions)

But look at it. Lesson: treated timber eats screws. Don't use treated timber where ordinary timber will do.

Of course I can't prove that it was the treated timber that did it, it could have been rainwater, but I doubt it.

Your studs should be inside a weatherproof shell of some sort, so they don't need to be treated.

WeekendBuilder

Thanks Lumen!

I adjusted over to use untreated timber within the walls, purely came down to a mistake by me when getting some direction.

With regard to the corrosion in the picture that looks relatively cosmetic (all be it only after 2 years) but very evident that the treated timber is causing an effect as the lower part of the shaft which i assume was in the internal stud is still bright.

Seemingly the overall effect of this longer term inst well documented as the change in timber treatments was only made in the mid 2000.

Thanks for the headsup!

Lumen

The lower part of the shaft is going through woodfibre insulation, which is treated with non corrosive substances.

The corrosion is fairly shallow but after only two years I'd have expected more.

Possibly other coatings are better. I can't believe all those passivated yellow screws are going to fall to bits in a few years...

CJhaughey

All of those coatings on screws are pretty crappy tbh. I can show you green deck screws that have completely disappeared after a few years in treated wood outside.
The only treatment I think is useful is hot dip galvanising for outdoor fasteners.
Stainless is very prone to snapping when being driven in.

mp31

Nailgun all the way... you can't beat the 'kerchunk' sound of a nailgun in rapid fire mode. Plus you get to buy a tool belt and hang that thing on the side as you work on your garden room :-)