Government considering purchase of military jet aircraft

perfectkama

jmayo wrote: »

It is not 1923 nor 1969.
The Brits spent long enough doing our air sea rescue, most especially on West coast and that meant crossing our entire country.

It will be a pretty long flight from China.

Not now, but they will operate from African bases the dragon is developing its military prowess to project its economic muscle.

4068ac1elhodqr

Waste of cash, with 100,000 jobs going due to brexit in Janurary (not to mention thousands more on the back of covid wave2). Then hundreds of thousands of unskilled economic migrants likely to arrive once Britian closes it's euro doors and hauls up their moat bridge.

Instead ground based Laser beams, HEW, and hypersonic missiles (ideally just dazzle) or knock down anything you really don't like the look of.
Anyway you don't really want to be the 1st to knock out something from the great dragon/bear, without a shovel, bucket and fresh stock of iodine pills.

Maybe a couple of Apaches for the next time a LiDL store gets razed to the ground by whooping hounds of grey tacksuits, or stolen vans on a rampage across multiple counties, refusing to stop for anything bar heavy machinery.

Signore Fancy Pants

It's not currently financially or operationally viable. Theres also no point in a "half arsed" attempt at air-to-air/surface-to-air defence unless significant investment over a sustained period of time is warranted.

Varik

Wouldn't be averse to them getting some sort of offensive helicopter as said, we'd actually have use for them and they'd be a bit more capable compared to the armed response units showing up in an Audi in the event of something serious.

Or even some maritime patrol aircraft/drones, once who knows what way the Brexit will effect international fishing and not to mention with a more isolated UK you'll more smuggling coming through Ireland.

no.8

puppieperson1 wrote:

Defend it from what a murder of crows or seagulls maybe?? what a joke we are a neutral country oh wait we did facilitate the americans via Shannon let them defend our air space they use the most !!

Neutral or not, it does not indicate anything in terms of national security.
Take for example Switzerland. Huge political / public pressure in the procurement drive for new jets, taking years, but i can't imagine they'll risk not having them. Im not advocating shutting but we can't rely on our neighbours goodwill for eternity

James Brown

Magic money tree?
I think we should have something to see off Russia coming into our airspace unannounced but the price tag is a bit much for nothing more than a showing. As long as it's not a ploy by the three amigos to get a jet each.

ronivek

Russia doesn’t shy away from provoking NATO forces with its incursions and dangerous flying; why would Irish fighters give them pause?

There’s nothing we could do in a modern conventional conflict; we have no significant armoured forces, no significant technological advantages or advanced weapon systems of any description, no satellite or international force projection capabilities of any kind.

We are utterly reliant on our political and diplomatic acumen; so we should spend our money on our existing peacekeeping roles and pump the rest into air ambulance and coast guard capabilities and not the money drain of a meaningless fighter squadron.

mikemac2

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

It would be effective, but the costs are very high, armies are not cheap

But like a previous poster said mostly wealthy EU states have some degree of Air cover.

The only exceptions are:

Luxembourg

Luxembourg doesn't have jets but they are the proud owner of one freaking huge military transport aeroplane. Airbus 400M is the name of it

Belgium bought 7 and Luxembourg bought 1, they signed the deal with Airbus together Was in the news this week and Airbus will be delivering soon

kravmaga

@OP, this subject matter has already been done to death on the military forum.

Wanderer78

Bowie wrote:

Magic money tree? I think we should have something to see off Russia coming into our airspace unannounced but the price tag is a bit much for nothing more than a showing. As long as it's not a ploy by the three amigos to get a jet each.

I'd rather use magical money trees for other, more important things

Conall Cernach

no.8 wrote: »

Neutral or not, it does not indicate anything in terms of national security.
Take for example Switzerland. Huge political / public pressure in the procurement drive for new jets, taking years, but i can't imagine they'll risk not having them. Im not advocating shutting but we can't rely on our neighbours goodwill for eternity

I was in Switzerland a couple of years ago about 2500m up when 2 F-16s came screaming over the valley, did a lap of the Matterhorn and went screaming back. Very impressive.

Galwayguy35

We send a couple of hundred million off to tin pot countries in so called aid and nobody has any problem with it but the thought of buying something that would be used for the defence of our own country gets the crusties all outraged.

Gatling

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We send a couple of hundred million off to tin pot countries in so called aid and nobody has any problem with it but the thought of buying something that would be used for the defence of our own country gets the crusties all outraged.

Who in turn buy weapons and fighter jets with our money .



But god forbid we actually have the equipment to defend our country

James Brown

Yale could use an international airport.

ronivek

Gatling wrote: »

But god forbid we actually have the equipment to defend our country

Defend our country from who exactly; and to what end?

How many times in our country's history have we been intentionally attacked by a foreign power such that fighter jets would have been a viable defence?

If Russia ever went to war with NATO, it's unlikely that they would respect Irish neutrality. They'd use any weakness in European defenses to strike their targets, which means we are vulnerable. Even without being a direct target, we'd be vulnerable at any fights within our airspace. Having some jets available might deter such a move, with them going elsewhere.

In any case, I feel it's time that Ireland stepped up, looking after it's own security rather than relying on others to protect us. Neutrality is a paper shield.

Gatling

ronivek wrote: »

Defend our country from who exactly; and to what end?

Who knows what could or will happen in the future ,

Yo meyho fly out to the oul UN there and beg them to protect us if anything ever happens that we need a real airforce , naval and other defence forces .

As much as I respect our military they are treated like ****e and dependent on welfare top ups to survive ,

But no lets spend our money on bogus asylum seekers and their families both here and over seas ,
Lets spend our money on people who want free houses,let's keep spending more and more on a failing health care system that's getting worse the more we are spending on it ,
Lets send more money over seas to other countries so that can buy military equipment.

Countries with similar sized populations and GDP can afford decent health services , education , housing and very well equipped militaries ,from ground forces , armour , aircraft ,naval ,
We get people get complaining when it's announced the army is buying munitions

expectationlost

RonanG86 wrote: »

Not a hope of this happening.

16 jet fighters with 3 crews each? Where would the money, the training apparatus and the pilots come from? As you say yourself, fighter jets don't win votes. We have 8 PC-9s at current, and given the state of our Army and Navy, if I found out that more than 4 of them were actually airborne at any one time, I'd be surprised. I'd say the last time Ireland had 16 combat capable aircraft was in World War 2.

If the British withdrew air protection and Russians freely flying around our airspace became a political problem, I think the most likely solution we'd come up with is bunging the French, Swedes or Norweigans some money to take over. Possibly even occasionally station a fighter or two here as a token deterrent.

are you saying Russians have been freely flying around our airspace? when?

Greyfox

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We send a couple of hundred million off to tin pot countries in so called aid and nobody has any problem with it but the thought of buying something that would be used for the defence of our own country gets the crusties all outraged.

Because some of the money goes to people in need. Wasting a billion dollars to protect ourselves from imaginary enemies would be the dumbest thing this country has ever done. If any TD supports the idea I hope they get ridiculed and sacked

Beta Ray Bill

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/0318/1123836-russian-military-aircraft-bombers-ireland/

Key points:
- Russian bombers regularly enter Irish controlled airspace (but not our sovereign airspace) without permission. They are probing and attempting to sow discord within the EU: Why can Ireland not defend itself, why do we have to defend Ireland
- There is a deal between the UK and Ireland on allowing UK fighters to fly over Ireland (Neither the Public nor the Irish Armed forces know the specifics of the deal, sounds dodge off the bat)
- We are not part of a military alliance. These bombers are mostly probing NATO, not Ireland. We just happen to be one of the "gaps" they're probing.
- There are far higher security threats to Ireland than Russians probing our airspace




There would need to be a referendum on that. we're a neutral state.

Irish neutrality is a government stance, not a constitutional matter.

It was primarily born from staying out of other nations affairs and in ww2 declared as a political and military stance.

Foreign forces do and can land and stay on Irish soil.

In regards the op, the best that could be hoped for and somewhat realistic, a dozen l39n or similar advanced trainer / light attack planes.

Anything more advanced and capable will require financing and manpower beyond our scope while these options don't really address the issue and are more a step in the right direction for our budget

Gatling

Greyfox wrote: »

Because some of the money goes to people in need.

A few bags of grain and mig and Sukhoi fighters jets.


Meanwhile we have a handful of modern P51 Mustangs(pc9s) and several helicopter

Maybe these tin Pot countries can send us some money to fund our military?

expectationlost

expectationlost wrote: »

are you saying Russians have been freely flying around our airspace? when?

Easy enough search:

IAMAMORON

I would prefer to see them invest in our coast guard and saving our fishermen and other people who work in the sea. The RNLI and Irish Coastguard are under resourced and would welcome a cash injection and it would save lives.

Blowing millions on toys for boys will not improve our security. We are a neutral country.

expectationlost

Deleted User wrote: »

Easy enough search:

that article says they havn't been flying in our airspace.

So what were these Russian bombers doing in airspace controlled by Ireland? It is important to emphasise that they did not violate Irish sovereign airspace as such and that the Irish Aviation Authority are responsible for a much larger area than this.

Irish controlled airspace includes international airspace, its not all our airpsace.

hurikane

expectationlost wrote: »

that article says they havn't been flying in our airspace. So what were these Russian bombers doing in airspace controlled by Ireland? It is important to emphasise that they did not violate Irish sovereign airspace as such and that the Irish Aviation Authority are responsible for a much larger area than this.



Irish controlled airspace includes international airspace its not our airpsace.

Don’t waste your 10,000 post trying catch someone out about Irish and Irish controlled international airspace.............

Gatling

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Blowing millions on toys for boys will not improve our security. We are a neutral country.

Good old lets just wave a white flag , ah shure aren't we neutral,
I'm sure Isis to Putin believe in neutrality ,were non aligned and part of NATO partnership for peace and the EU battlegroup not very neutral ,

Imagine we could actually a real arms industry that brought jobs and investment to the economy ,much better than sending what little resources we have to pick up economic migrants in the med

Geuze

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Popped up on my phones news feed yesterday

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/government-considering-purchase-of-military-jet-aircraft-1.4289801

The government is "considering" spening €1B on fighters (16 jets, and the supporting infrastructure)

I did not read the link, but I will say this:

We will not be spending 1bn on fighter aircraft.

We can't even house our own people.

We have 800,000 on hosp waiting lists.

We don't have any enemies.

We are neutral.

We don't need to defend our airspace, as nobody will be attacking it.

We had a 200bn public debt last year.

We will add 20-30bn this year.




As we have a large maritime area, I'd say you could argue for investment in more SAR helicopters / naval vessels / naval aircraft.

Geuze

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We should have adequate air defence capability for our airspace.

We have Russian bombers routinely flying down our west coast because we are a weak link. We can't rely on other countries for such basic capability.

Let them fly away.

Housing, jobs, health - these are key issues.


If the Russians are foolish enough to devote more of their resources to wasteful defence spending, let them off, it's their people's choice to vote.

We sensibly spend less on defence.

IAMAMORON

Gatling wrote: »

Good old lets just wave a white flag , ah shure aren't we neutral,
I'm sure Isis to Putin believe in neutrality ,were non aligned and part of NATO partnership for peace and the EU battlegroup not very neutral ,

Imagine we could actually a real arms industry that brought jobs and investment to the economy ,much better than sending what little resources we have to pick up economic migrants in the med

The Russian Air force would annihilate our 1 billion investment in less than an hour. Done. If they want they can blow up Dublin in 2 hours time. Let's hope Vladimir is not in the mood to start WW3 this afternoon. Isis have no air force that I am aware of and I have a hunch we are slightly off their radar as regards international targets?

16 fighter jets me eye. We could probably buy lifeboats and a fleet of choppers and man them for the same money. Spend the change on something which might actually benefit the country.

Richard Hillman

Lads, nobody is going to attack us. And if they did, we wouldn't have a chance anyway. If the Russians want to fly around aerospace let them, just tell them to stay away from the commercial jets.