Electricity supplier

the_amazing_raisin

meep wrote: »

Standard word of warnings: be super careful running appliances at night or otherwise unattended.

A couple of years ago, our dishwasher (expensive Bosch) went up in literal smoke. When we pulled it out to replace, I was shocked to see the damage and was very glad it had happened while we were around to notice and switch off mains.

Yeah had a similar experience with a washing machine that we had replaced the seal on. Apparently I didn't do a good enough job as the drum was off a bearing and tore into the seal until some of the rubber went up in smoke

Lesson learned, even though you have the right to repair, it's probably best to leave it to someone who knows what they're doing

I tend to leave the timers until early morning, so the appliances will be finishing up around the time we're waking up. That way we won't be in a deep sleep in case the fire alarms are going off

rodneytrotter15

Was chatting to the guy doing the Smart Metres installs in my estate. He told me you cant have a smart metre if you have a day/night metre as they haven't figured out how to send a dual reading back. Seemed odd but also bumped into a few doing reads in Kilkee and he said the same thing.

liamog

rodneytrotter15 wrote: »

Was chatting to the guy doing the Smart Metres installs in my estate. He told me you cant have a smart metre if you have a day/night metre as they haven't figured out how to send a dual reading back. Seemed odd but also bumped into a few doing reads in Kilkee and he said the same thing.

It's complete madness, they haven't quite figured out that if you are sending data in 30 minute increments a dual reading is no longer required as you can just use a block of periods to cover what would of been the night period.

Krusty_Clown

I contacted ElectricIreland after the most recent attempt to switch us over to a smart metre and after a few contradictory replies, I received the following from them:

ElectricIreland wrote:

Please be advised, the Smart Meter is programmed by default, to monitor usage on a standard a 24-hour rate, and so if it was installed, you would be unable to continue with your current Green Electricity NightSaver & Gas plan as this can only be applied to a standard Day/Night Meter.
The 'Smart' equivalent of this plan is called the Home Dual+ Night Boost and although they are similar in many ways, the unit prices on either plan are not exactly the same. Please find below the relevant price plan charges (inclusive of VAT and exclusive of Savings), for either plan:


Green Electricity NightSaver
Standard Day unit price (21.35c)
Standard Night unit price (10.60c)


Home Dual+ Night Boost
Standard Day unit price (22.16c)
Standard Night unit price (11.41c)
Standard Night Boost unit price (6.16c)

As stated above, the standard Day and Night unit prices will increase if you choose to get the Smart Meter installed and choose to avail of the relevant Home Dual+ Night Boost plan, however, it should be noted that the Smart Plan offers a 'Boost Rate' between the hours of 2am to 4am which charges for the electricity used during that period at a reduced rate, as outlined above.

Upon consideration of the information above, if you do not wish to have a Smart Meter installed at your property we can log an objection on your behalf.

They didn't respond to my question about whether or not this would terminate our existing contract and we could then switch early to another provider/plan. I guess it's a tricky one, as technically they didn't initiate the price change.

unkel

stimpson wrote: »

It has saved us ~50 per billing cycle and has already paid for itself.

Let's do the sums here. It has saved you €50 per billing cycle, so €0.83c per day.

Let's say you run it once a day (we run ours about 5-6 times a week, busy family of 5)

So it has saved you €0.83 per cycle. At an electricity price of €0.13 per kWh that means the new machine uses over 6kWh less per cycle than the old one.

I think not Unless you run your dishwasher 6 times a day

It might be in the order of 1kWh difference, which means the machine will have paid for itself in about 10 years. If it lasts that long...

the_amazing_raisin

For some reason this thread is showing as unread and even though I've read all the recent posts

I actually have nothing to say, I'm just posting to see if I can get boards to fix itself

So... how's everyone enjoying the weather?

EDIT: fixed now, I'm finally able to see the latest posts

stimpson

unkel wrote: »

Let's do the sums here. It has saved you €50 per billing cycle, so €0.83c per day.

Let's say you run it once a day (we run ours about 5-6 times a week, busy family of 5)

So it has saved you €0.83 per cycle. At an electricity price of €0.13 per kWh that means the new machine uses over 6kWh less per cycle than the old one.

I think not Unless you run your dishwasher 6 times a day

It might be in the order of 1kWh difference, which means the machine will have paid for itself in about 10 years. If it lasts that long...

Just looked at the receipt there - I bought a new fridge and freezer at the same time, so it's not all down to the dishwasher.

Anyway, I was paying a daytime rate of 27c per unit inc VAT. at the time. Spec sheet for new dishwasher has it at 0.9kWh per cycle, Milie was 2.6kWh. It's more like €30 per bill, but still substantial.

KCross

stimpson wrote: »

Anyway, I was paying a daytime rate of 27c per unit inc VAT. at the time. Spec sheet for new dishwasher has it at 0.9kWh per cycle, Milie was 2.6kWh. It's more like €30 per bill, but still substantial.

:eek::eek::eek::eek:


You were being screwed and then some!

I havent paid more than, I'd say, 16c/kWh for years upon years now. Usually closer to 14c. I've never paid 27c so nearly half what you were paying.

stimpson

KCross wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek:


You were being screwed and then some!

I havent paid more than, I'd say, 16c/kWh for years upon years now. Usually closer to 14c. I've never paid 27c so nearly half what you were paying.

Yeah, I was kind of surprised when I looked back. Currently paying 15c/7c day/night.

the_amazing_raisin

Hooray...

https://www.bonkers.ie/blog/gas-electricity/energia-the-fifth-supplier-to-raise-its-prices-for-the-second-time-this-year/

eagerv

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Hooray...

https://www.bonkers.ie/blog/gas-electricity/energia-the-fifth-supplier-to-raise-its-prices-for-the-second-time-this-year/

F%ck, we have to go looking again in next few weeks:(

the_amazing_raisin

eagerv wrote: »

F%ck, we have to go looking again in next few weeks:(

I think they're still one of the cheapest, bord gais might be slightly cheaper but at least I can keep my green credentials with energia for now

The price increases are across the board, must be to pay for all those smart meters

jogdish

If I get a home charge point for an electric car, does the cost just get lumped into my normal electric bill or is it sectioned out ? im with Electric Ireland.

Was thinking, 58KWh batt car => €0.17 x 58 to fully charge the car ? The 17c is from memory, but just an estimate.

graememk

jogdish wrote: »

If I get a home charge point for an electric car, does the cost just get lumped into my normal electric bill or is it sectioned out ? im with Electric Ireland.

Was thinking, 58KWh batt car => €0.17 x 58 to fully charge the car ? The 17c is from memory, but just an estimate.

Yes, maybe +10% for charging losses

But!

You can get a day night meter, standing charge is higher, but electricity is cheap at night.

The rate I'm on right now is 15c day, 7c night

Energia have a ev plan that is 18c day 5c night.

Its then even cheaper to charge at night.

It is free to change meters

Calahonda52

graememk wrote: »

Yes, maybe +10% for charging losses

But!

You can get a day night meter, standing charge is higher, but electricity is cheap at night.

The rate I'm on right now is 15c day, 7c night

Energia have a ev plan that is 18c day 5c night.

Its then even cheaper to charge at night.

It is free to change meters

IIRC any new DN meters will be smart with all the issue with the 2 G network and the default rates of DN and peak.
I am disposing of my EV due to these issues

the_amazing_raisin

jogdish wrote: »

If I get a home charge point for an electric car, does the cost just get lumped into my normal electric bill or is it sectioned out ? im with Electric Ireland.

Was thinking, 58KWh batt car => €0.17 x 58 to fully charge the car ? The 17c is from memory, but just an estimate.

It's under the same supply so it gets lumped in with everything else

17c is the 24 hour rate, most people get a day/night meter where the cheapest night rate is 5c

Also, remember your fuel costs drop to zero, which should more than offset it

the_amazing_raisin

Calahonda52 wrote: »

IIRC any new DN meters will be smart with all the issue with the 2 G network and the default rates of DN and peak.
I am disposing of my EV due to these issues

That seems a tad extreme IMO, even on the day rate surely an EV is still much cheap than diesel?

the_amazing_raisin

jogdish wrote: »

If I get a home charge point for an electric car, does the cost just get lumped into my normal electric bill or is it sectioned out ? im with Electric Ireland.

Was thinking, 58KWh batt car => €0.17 x 58 to fully charge the car ? The 17c is from memory, but just an estimate.

Actually I forgot to mention, I generally find mileage and consumption is the best way to estimate you bills, since you tend to charge opportunistically rather than waiting for the battery to be empty

Here's the calculation

(((Annual mileage in km/100) * (average consumption in kWh/100km)) * 1.1) * Unit cost of electricity in € = Annual cost of electricity

Worked example from my Leaf:

(((12,500km/100) * (16kWh/100km)) * 1.1) * €0.0523/kWh = €115.06

Divide that by 6 and that's roughly what you'd expect to see added to your bill

dave oc

Is it still possible to the a standard day/night meter installed? I have an old 24 hour meter with my contact up in august and I’m trying to work out what’s the best way forward. From what I see and read smart meters have more expensive rates generally, so it seems like the non smart night meter would be the way to go if I can get one. Would that be a fair statement?

graememk

dave oc wrote: »

Is it still possible to the a standard day/night meter installed? I have an old 24 hour meter with my contact up in august and I’m trying to work out what’s the best way forward. From what I see and read smart meters have more expensive rates generally, so it seems like the non smart night meter would be the way to go if I can get one. Would that be a fair statement?

Yep. I think they still will install a day night one.

How old is your meter? If the it's a digital one, they might not even need to change it, just change the way it's read.

Patmwgs

graememk wrote: »

Yep. I think they still will install a day night one.

How old is your meter? If the it's a digital one, they might not even need to change it, just change the way it's read.

Whats the plan for all of you on day night rate meter and solar, will you change to smart meter when fits payment start?

KCross

Patmwgs wrote: »

Whats the plan for all of you on day night rate meter and solar, will you change to smart meter when fits payment start?

No one can really answer that until we see the mechanics of the FiT scheme from the gov and the tariffs offered by the electricity providers.

None of that is available yet!

the_amazing_raisin

Patmwgs wrote: »

Whats the plan for all of you on day night rate meter and solar, will you change to smart meter when fits payment start?

I suppose it depend on the FIT payment rate, if you'd make less from export than the higher costs of the smart meter then it's probably not worthwhile

graememk

Patmwgs wrote: »

Whats the plan for all of you on day night rate meter and solar, will you change to smart meter when fits payment start?

If the smart meter rates don't change, I will be holding onto the day/night meter for as long as possible

Ive run the numbers for myself, I'm on about 93 % Night rate (its mainly just the EV charging now)

For the summer months, i could be saving about 5 euro/monthish with a FIT of 5c/kwh over a day/night meter.

but any savings would be wiped out by the winter months.

Ran the numbers for my fathers install too. (no EV, 5.6kwp, battery storage, +diverter, only has used 30 day and 20 night for may+june so far)

Exported 134, still only saving 7 euro for the month and a half

Some would say (and i would agree most of the time) the diverter is unnecessary, but it was part of the reason for the solar install, not need to light a fire to have hot water in the summer.

cannco253

https://gizmodo.com/texas-power-companies-are-remotely-raising-temperatures-1847136110

Does anything like this exist in Europe ? If you have a smart thermostat can the electricity supplier get access to it?

the_amazing_raisin

cannco253 wrote: »

https://gizmodo.com/texas-power-companies-are-remotely-raising-temperatures-1847136110

Does anything like this exist in Europe ? If you have a smart thermostat can the electricity supplier get access to it?

There are companies offering smart thermostats as part of a deal but I don't think they include the ability for your energy provider to remote control your temperature

I doubt it'll happen as EU privacy laws are a lot stronger than the US. Even if it does I imagine it'll need to be spelled out quite clearly in the contract

Another thing to remember is that the electricity grid in the US is a shambles. They have way more issues than we do and on top of that the climate causes much bigger peak demand than here. So having your power cut to protect the grid is a shockingly common occurrence in places like Texas or California

It's also worth bearing in mind that in hot climates the grid is more likely to be damaged by an overload because the hardware can't dissapate heat as quickly. Keeping cool is generally not a problem we have in Ireland, it's more likely the grid will be at its limit in winter.

In principle it's not the worst idea, although execution in this case is pretty poor. Energy companies often have contracts with high demand customers that say they can cut their power in the event of a grid overload

Having some mechanism where instead homeowners could be requested to lower their thermostat and avail of some discount for an hour or two would be a good idea I think and is probably better for local grid balancing

It would have to be an opt in system, for example you get a text from your energy provider saying they'd like you to keep demand below a certain peak and if you do they'll give you a discount (or jack up the price if you go over, depends on whether you want to go with the stick or carrot approach)

garo

There are use cases where this makes a lot of sense. EV charging comes to mind. And there are far fewer comfort issues associated with that compared to say changing the thermostat temp.

the_amazing_raisin

garo wrote: »

There are use cases where this makes a lot of sense. EV charging comes to mind. And there are far fewer comfort issues associated with that compared to say changing the thermostat temp.

Absolutely, although arguably the simplest thing to do it just make electircity really expensive during peak times

Unfortunately this can hit people quite badly, like during the snowstorm in Texas, prices went to something like $9/kWh :eek:

As you say, curtailing services like EV charging is probably better than cutting customers power entirely

slave1

graememk wrote: »

For the summer months, i could be saving about 5 euro/monthish with a FIT of 5c/kwh over a day/night meter.

but any savings would be wiped out by the winter months.

This is it exactly, I got 44kW into the Kona over the weekend, probably get 20+kW into the Model S today so that's my preference before FIT.
Even if I made 100% use of FIT it would be wiped over Winter months when PV is just there in the background and not doing anything meaningful regards EV charging/Water heater etc

KCross

KCross wrote: »

No one can really answer that until we see the mechanics of the FiT scheme from the gov and the tariffs offered by the electricity providers.

None of that is available yet!

Wait until you see, they'll offer a minuscule FIT and increase electricity prices.