Electricity supplier

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962446#Comment_117962446

Yes, please send me the google sheet, thanks.

garo

There's a long thread on the reneables forum. Energia's quote is about 3x what other people are paying.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957000#Comment_117957000

Be aware that all batteries regardless of their size have limited output e.g. a 2.4kWh Pylontech battery will only provide 1.2kW of power, add one more ( or any number more ) and the max is only 2.4kW. Once you start boiling a kettle etc the battery can’t handle the full load, it will help alright but grid demand remains

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955586#Comment_117955586

The grid has to go green ? I think priority is keeping the lights on in homes at this point in time and whether the energy comes from Gas or Coal the more important thing is keeping the power flowing.

We could add a huge more amounts of energy to the grid if every roof in Ireland had as much solar pv as they could take.

I wonder has anyone in the greens bothered to calculate the amount of diesel data centres need to use to keep power on in Dublin ? at times of peak supply they have to take part of production off grid, at least this is true for the likes of Microsoft, Green Data Centres is a complete myth.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966075#Comment_117966075

That's bollocks lol, you'd think in this day and age the batteries would at least deliver 3 Kw, probably just cheap cells. Not good. Better off with a attic full of lead acid. lol.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966391#Comment_117966391

There's nuance to everything.

Sure a 2.4kwh pylontech can only discharge at 1.2, 2 of them can do 2.4 etc etc

The batteries I have are 200ah cells. A 1C discharge is 10kW. I'm limited by my storage inverter, which is 3kw.

There is higher powered inverters out there but they were much more expensive. So for the brief period say when the kettle and the oven is on, I'll just take the bit from the grid. Over the last month my daytime average is about 1kwh.

- and that's including days where there wasn't enough solar to charge the batteries to last me though to 12am.

The 4G solis hybrids only can discharge at 3kw also. But the new ones 5G can do 5kw from the battery and then you'd match your battery according.

antoinolachtnai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966379#Comment_117966379

They are accounted for under the emissions trading system as far as I know. The Microsoft emissions licence is at https://www.epa.ie/publications/licensing--permitting/climate-change/IE-GHG179-10502-4.pdf

being in ETS means there is a cap on total emissions. Microsoft must buy an emission allowance for every tonne of CO2 emitted.

Because of the cap, if there are more emissions in one place, then emissions need to be reduced somewhere else in industry

There is also electricity tax payable so it needs to be accounted for to Revenue. All this is easily cross-checked against the fuel suppliers’ records

There are many problems with climate policy but it is not correct to think that emissions for the likes of data centres are not being accounted for.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966595#Comment_117966595

Like the 5kW piece at the end, future option for us DIY battery setups

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966379#Comment_117966379

What data centre is using diesel ? Also winter peak is between 5 snd 7, solar isn’t much use then.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966622#Comment_117966622

Do you really think Microsoft are giving diesel receipts to the Government or do you think the Government really care ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117967212#Comment_117967212

Microsoft must take xx Mw of Power off Grid as requested, this is replaced with diesel, they were supposed to build their own gas plant but not sure if that happened. I'm sure the other larger DC do this too like AWS.

Solar PV can add to the Grid in Summer when Wind supply is lowest but even in Winter solar PV can add significant energy to the grid particularly if there is a sustained cold spell which usually means high pressure and very little wind but will get be a lot more Sun.

MAULBROOK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966075#Comment_117966075

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966075#Comment_117966075

I went with the BYD battery and it can easily run a kettle of them. I have done it with out problems.

That's what happens when ya go cheap on the batteries.

BYD all the way.

slave1

One thing Pylontech ain’t is cheap! For the price of 7.2kWh Pylontech I’m building a 20.5kWh DIY battery install from Chinese battery cells with 3kW discharge

ltd440

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962446#Comment_117962446

I would also be interested in reading that if you could pm me too please

garo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117967798#Comment_117967798

I think if you connect them in parallel you could theoretically get 6kW discharge if your inverter can handle. 6kW would still be ~120A which your cells can easily handle. With two in parallel you are drawing 60A from each which is 0.3C.

MAULBROOK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117967798#Comment_117967798

Sorry less expensive than the BYD battery.

Nice one on the build but I'm a plug and play merchant.

MAULBROOK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966391#Comment_117966391

Not all battery systems are the same. Some are better with a realy good output.

My wife just remembered we ran a kettle tv laptop and router off it during a power failure.

All good for the winter fun.

antoinolachtnai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117967738#Comment_117967738

They really don’t need to. That’s just the cross-check the declaration. It can be cross checked in other ways too. The EPA and Revenue can audit if they want and Microsoft knows this. If they run without declaring it will be pretty obvious.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117967757#Comment_117967757

How often have they been asked to load shed?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117968102#Comment_117968102

My Point is that the Government EPA or anyone else doesn't care how much diesel Microsoft use in their Data Centre or AWS or anyone else especially if it means keeping the lights on......Can be cross referenced but doubt very much it is or will be.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117968150#Comment_117968150

I have no data but it is/was frequent enough, probably more so now with less grid supply, it was difficult to get any info out of them but they're fond of lying to people that come in on day tours of some of the buildings, students, potential customers or customers` etc, that the DC is powered by 100% green energy, as I said, I am not aware if they built the gas plants or use them. ( No Microsoft, just No, buying carbon credits does not change the fuel mix on the Grid ) and that goes for Google and AWS too!

From time to time they need to run the generators anyway for maintenance, this isn't a small consumer of fuel + the smell of diesel exhaust inside can be horrible and hardly good for People working there as massive amounts of External air flood through the building, sucking in this diesel exhaust.

AWS, Google and facebook might also be forced to use diesel power.

https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/both-microsoft-and-edgeconnex-apply-to-build-more-data-centers-in-dublin-business-park/

How many diesel generators you said ? lol read the above, now true, these are needed for backup also.

We need to start thinking how much we really need the cloud, do we need social media ? I would say, as someone who doesn't use social media that no we don't, I am really glad I cancelled Facebook account, I see some People who use it who constantly battle with others on it and it's driving them insane lol I use boards but I don't consider this social media but we don't even need boards.

Do we really need to take a million photos to keep in the cloud on servers running 24x7x365 when we could store at home on Blu Ray or on our own NAS ?

One of the best things I use the cloud for is sat nav but even then we really don't need the cloud for this.

How many more data centres can we build, seriously ?

Do we really need to stream our local radio from data centres when we can turn on the fecking radio etc etc.

Do we really need to sit on our asses binging on Netflix or Amazon or looking at youtube ?

Something to ponder on lol

antoinolachtnai

You are just making this stuff up though. Carbon credits have nothing to do with the energy mix. You say the government is turning a blind eye to carbon emissions at large plants but you don’t have any evidence for this.

you say that Microsoft are blowing diesel fumes through their data centre which sounds unlikely.

you suggest keeping stuff on a NAS at home but that is going to use far more power and be far less manageable. The whole point of moving stuff off premises originally was to drive down cost and that point still holds true.

Your ideas for reducing social media and streaming use are great but they won’t make any difference if there isn’t a trusted high level joint effort to measure, manage and address overall emissions. A few people taking action isn’t enough. whole system has to move and change

All the initiatives you make light of are designed to do exactly that, at a grand level.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973444#Comment_117973444

Yes, work in the data centre and you can get strong diesel exhaust emissions smell at times, this is not unlikely it's fact.

Look, I don't trust the Government to do anything, they're some of the greatest crooks on the Island, they tried to force diesel down people's necks in 2008 just because the test of the E.U was doing it and didn't want to be the odd ones out. Then the diesel emissions scandal came out and all of a sudden diesel was bad and of course their get out of jail card was that they went on the advice given by professionals that the lower co2 emissions from diesel was a good way to save the earth from imaginary man made warming at the expense of many thousands of diesel related deaths.

All I'm saying is wanting and needing are two different things, we don't need the cloud for everything and social media is not important, we don't have to store all out lives in the cloud we can put a lot of data on Blu Ray disks, or even hard drives, how much data do we need at what expense ? Building gigantic facilities getting larger and larger more and more can't be sustainable indefinitely.

TheRef

I've been on a smart meter since the middle of March with Energia.

We are a BEV and PHEV household. PHEV (7.7kwh) charges during day probably each day and BEV (M3LR) only at night once a week maybe (give or take).

We don't bother worrying about putting things on late at night to save electricity (apart from charging car), so switch on white goods when needed.

Since 18-March to 30-Sep, our average cost per day for electricity with the smart meter is €4.63 (incl. Standing charge, PSO, VAT).

If we were on night rate, our average cost per day would be €4.70.

Unit costs are as follows:

Smart Meter (incl. VAT):

Night Rate 23:00-08:00 - 0.1151

Day Off Peak 08:00-17:00;19:00-23:00 - 0.1688

Day Peak 17:00-19:00 - 0.1612

Annual Standing - 207.05 - 0.567260274 (per day)

PSO - 88.80 - .2432876712 (per day)

Night Meter Rates used for comparison:

Day Cost - 0.2028

Night Cost - 0.0584

Standing - 259.36 - 0.7106 (per day)

PSO - 88.80 - 0.2433 (per day)

I am of course open to all correction on the above numbers.

That night rate charge you pay with smart meter is a rip off. And a key indicator to the end of cheaper night rate charging, it was only a matter of time before they copped on, these smart meter installs were supposed to make bills cheaper but the taxpayer had to pay what, a billion Euros to pay for them and then they turn around and rip us off ?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973971#Comment_117973971

Them night rates are Energia's ev plan.

Unless you are using a lot of night rate >60% a normal day night plan is better.

17.34 day and 8.32 night were the rates the last time I checked.

Standing charges are higher for standard day night meters, so if your usage is low it will tend to favour the 24hr/smart meter.

UID0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973971#Comment_117973971

Your smart meter unit costs look a little off. The peak rate is lower than the off peak day rate. Based on the figures you've given, you're using about 15kWh day rate and 12kWh night rate per day, which, before smart meters would have put you borderline on if a day/night meter would have saved money over the 24h meter.

garo

If you can shift your PHEV charging and some appliances to night rate then a day/night rate will make sense for you otherwise it won't.

Makes sense to move all the high power devices to night rate if possible, why pay more to energy companies if you don't have to ?