Electricity supplier

KCross

Not that hard to hit 2000kWh in 2 months on night rate (30kWh per day) if you have an EV, a heat pump and you run appliances on night rate or if you are a 2 EV house.

I regularly go over the 2000kWh limit.

Nedved85

Nedved85 wrote: »

So currently the heat pump is more or less off at night, bar heating the hot water if it goes below a certain threshold (Early shower in the morning would kick it off)

The rest of the house is ticking over at 200 watts only.

I could change up my heat pump usage slightly to start off in the moring at say 6am to 8am and that would do a lot of the start of the day and it would kick in again in the evenng for another few hours. (I know people are not meant to micro manage heat pumo usage..)

We could also use the washing machine, dryer and dishwasher at night, no problem there.

And if we did have nught rate I would probably just charge the car at home for pure convenience instead of watching out for a free slot at work.

I think you'd be mad not to use the hp on some of the night rate, turn it on at 5 am and have the house warm on the cheaper rate so it might not have to work so hard for the rest of the day.

Washing machine, dishwasher, dryer etc they all add up, get them on the night rate.

We have a Bosch Heat Pump dryer, uses a sh1t lot less energy, might be worth considering when you existing one dies.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

Not that hard to hit 2000kWh in 2 months on night rate (30kWh per day) if you have an EV, a heat pump and you run appliances on night rate.

I regularly go over the 2000kWh limit.

I was forgetting that I'm only in the new job since end of May and changed energia to her name so I will monitor it more int he coming months now that I no longer have free work charging or any kind of work charging.

Nedved85

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think you'd be mad not to use the hp on some of the night rate, turn it on at 5 am and have the house warm on the cheaper rate so it might not have to work so hard for the rest of the day.

Washing machine, dishwasher, dryer etc they all add up, get them on the night rate.

We have a Bosch Heat Pump dryer, uses a sh1t lot less energy, might be worth considering when you existing one dies.

You might be right. Unfortunately, if I change now I'll have take out the brand new smart meter and get an old day/night meter. Then in the future pay to get the smart meter put back in when they are compatible with night metering (coming soon according to the esb...)

So I will hold off for another while yet.

Latest energia pricing is at 13c / kwh for 24h rate which is a good saving over our current plan of 16.5c. The standing charge is more expensive with Energia though.

Our washer, dryer and dishwasher are all A rated.. Forked out the bit extra for energy savings.

graememk

Nedved85 wrote: »

You might be right. Unfortunately, if I change now I'll have take out the brand new smart meter and get an old day/night meter. Then in the future pay to get the smart meter put back in when they are compatible with night metering (coming soon according to the esb...)

So I will hold off for another while yet.

They shouldn't charge you for putting a smart meter back. As they do eventually want them rolled out every where.

What's the smart meter like? What's the advantage of having it?

Nedved85

graememk wrote: »

What's the smart meter like? What's the advantage of having it?

I have not looked at it tbh.

Apparently they will be able to get the exact amount of energy used for each bill instead of reading it manually/guessing. Not sure if it is fully operational yet.

It will be compatible with night rate (in the future, judging by a letter in the door)

AndyBoBandy

Smart meters should also allow providers to offer multi time tariffs as opposed to just day & night rates.

KCross

graememk wrote: »

They shouldn't charge you for putting a smart meter back. As they do eventually want them rolled out every where.

What's the smart meter like? What's the advantage of having it?

It will allow you to view your energy usage in, I think, 30min intervals so you can then see where you are using (possibly wasting) energy.

And it will also allow you to track export to the grid for Solar PV... you have to pay €350 if you want a meter to do that today as the standard day/night meter doesnt do it.

From the ESB's perspective it means they dont have to send out meter readers. Its all done automatically... i.e. the meter "phones home". Meter reader is out of a job!

The smart meters will could mean higher energy bills because what they will do is charge more when there is less green energy on the grid to encourage more usage of green energy and charge less when there is more green energy on the grid, it's as simple as that, they can dress it up any way they want.

So in other words, the current Day/Night tariff we have will be gone, for those who accept a smart meter, remember there is absolutely no advantage to anyone having this and you have the right to refuse as I will be doing when they try get me to install it, so say now it doesn't matter whether there is green energy on the grid or not, at night my tariff is around 6.4 C/Kwh but what will happen is that they will charge me more at night when it's usually less windy and less green energy on the grid, and that will go the other way too during the day if there's more green energy on the grid the cost should be lower.

So I can see the current system of Day/Night being abolished but remember, you have the absolute right to refuse a smart meter.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

So I can see the current system of Day/Night being abolished but remember, you have the absolute right to refuse a smart meter.

On what basis?

You dont own the meter in the meter box. It belongs to ESB. They can do what they like with it.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

The smart meters will could mean higher energy bills because what they will do is charge more when there is less green energy on the grid to encourage more usage of green energy and charge less when there is more green energy on the grid, it's as simple as that, they can dress it up any way they want.

It could mean higher energy bills. It could also mean lower energy bills. The idea is that it can change your behaviour. If you dont adapt with it it probably will mean higher bills.

My understanding is that there will be 3 tariffs instead of todays 2. At least that was the proposal from the CRU. That might have changed since i read that.

What is unlikely to happen though is where they keep changing the price on a daily basis based on amount of wind blowing etc. I dont think the CRU will allow that as it would cause distress to the poor who could not manage their bills in that way and it would go against the idea of changing peoples behaviour since you would have to be constantly monitoring the grid to figure that out.

Ultimately what they want/need to do is, to borrow a Covid term, flatten the curve.... so that the grid doesnt have to have massive spikes once or twice a day.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

On what basis?

You dont own the meter in the meter box. It belongs to ESB. They can do what they like with it.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2016-11-29/707/?highlight%5B0%5D=richard&highlight%5B1%5D=boyd&highlight%5B2%5D=barrett&highlight%5B3%5D=smart&highlight%5B4%5D=meter

Regarding right of refusal, I have been informed by the Commission for Energy Regulation that a customer that does not want an upgraded meter will be able to decline to have this new meter installed. However, the intention is that the default for newly constructed dwellings or other premises, or where meters are due for replacement at the end of their life, will be the installation of a smart meter. Over time, every mechanical meter is likely to be replaced with this new generation technology.

However, forget all the wireless emissions bollocks, that's just nonsense, people will get far more electromagnetic radiation which by the way, is of the non ionising form from the mobile in their pocket or laptop on their lap.

That's on par with the anti 5G crowd and the funniest of all is that the 5G frequencies People object to are not even licensed for use in Ireland and radar cruise control works up to 70 Ghz way higher than 5G will even eventually use but they don't think about that.

Anyway, the point of the link isn't to scare People from wireless emissions which is nonsense, I just linked to it because it shows that you do not have to accept a Smart Meter under any circumstances no matter what the ESB say but those in new installations will not have a choice.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

It could mean higher energy bills. It could also mean lower energy bills. The idea is that it can change your behaviour. If you dont adapt with it it probably will mean higher bills.

My understanding is that there will be 3 tariffs instead of todays 2. At least that was the proposal from the CRU. That might have changed since i read that.

What is unlikely to happen though is where they keep changing the price on a daily basis based on amount of wind blowing etc. I dont think the CRU will allow that as it would cause distress to the poor who could not manage their bills in that way and it would go against the idea of changing peoples behaviour since you would have to be constantly monitoring the grid to figure that out.

Ultimately what they want/need to do is, to borrow a Covid term, flatten the curve.... so that the grid doesnt have to have massive spikes once or twice a day.

No they won't change the price on a daily basis but I can definitely see a move to where it's cheaper for the consumer when there is more green energy compared to when there is much less, so that will mean it could mean that the current night rate is removed and replaced with the system where Day/Night is cheaper only when there is more green energy on the grid.

What that could encourage though is the use of electric heating during the day time, make it cheaper if the wind is blowing, I would love to get away from oil heating and big ugly rads and replace them with electric heating which is easy controllable via a simple room stat vs a big central system be it heat pump or not, I know the Heat Pump would be more efficient but the cost of installation is huge but they are getting better now and can even replace an oil boiler directly as they can heat water up to 65 Deg C now I believe which is a massive improvement and meaning floors don't have to be dug up etc.

The only real issue in your typical Irish heating system is lack of proper heating control, still the switch to HP and a system where you can run it cheaper with green energy would be good, the option to export your own solar PV or wind would also be a real welcome in Ireland where you can export all your excess in the warmer months and buy it back in the colder months when you need it.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2016-11-29/707/?highlight%5B0%5D=richard&highlight%5B1%5D=boyd&highlight%5B2%5D=barrett&highlight%5B3%5D=smart&highlight%5B4%5D=meter

Regarding right of refusal, I have been informed by the Commission for Energy Regulation that a customer that does not want an upgraded meter will be able to decline to have this new meter installed. However, the intention is that the default for newly constructed dwellings or other premises, or where meters are due for replacement at the end of their life, will be the installation of a smart meter. Over time, every mechanical meter is likely to be replaced with this new generation technology.
.

They'll probably get you on this one though...

"... or where meters are due for replacement at the end of their life"


And your providers will also probably get you by giving you an unfavourable rate if you dont have a smart meter.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

No they won't change the price on a daily basis but I can definitely see a move to where it's cheaper for the consumer when there is more green energy compared to when there is much less, so that will mean it could mean that the current night rate is removed and replaced with the system where Day/Night is cheaper only when there is more green energy on the grid.

But how would you do that unless its daily pricing?

It could be blowing a gale tonight at 3am with loads of green energy and tomorrow it could be blowing a gale at 6pm?!


I would expect the smart meter based tariffs to be based around flattening the curve and reducing reliance on peaker plants not based around when green energy is being generated.

joeysoap

My contract ended in April. Phoned Energia for a new deal, very apologetic guy said the best he could give was 10%. I told him there was much better on Bonkers - Energia weren’t on it- and I was leaving. He hoped I’d return next year as a new customer So they were quite willing to lose the year.

Anyway Electronic Ireland were the best at the time. The real difference is the standing charge.



14.20 cent ex VAT 16.12 cent inc VAT

Price plan
SuperSaver (Direct Debit & Online Billing) (Electricity only)
Annual standing charge
€91.35 ex VAT €103.68 inc VAT

I probably will return to Energia or SSE next year ( depends)

liamog

KCross wrote: »

But how would you do that unless its daily pricing?

It could be blowing a gale tonight at 3am with loads of green energy and tomorrow it could be blowing a gale at 6pm?!

Given that our civil servants mostly copy their homework from the UK ...

It will probably end up like the Octopus Agile tarrif.
https://octopus.energy/agile/

Prices are set in 30 min increments 24h in advance. Your smart equipment can then identify the best times of the day to be using it's electric

KCross

joeysoap wrote: »

My contract ended in April. Phoned Energia for a new deal, very apologetic guy said the best he could give was 10%. I told him there was much better on Bonkers - Energia weren’t on it- and I was leaving. He hoped I’d return next year as a new customer So they were quite willing to lose the year.

Its a PITA but yea that seems to be what they all do. They hope you couldnt be bothered switching and they stick to the script and will let you switch.

The end result is that if you want the cheapest rates you have to switch every year to get the "New customer" discount.... thats just the way it is and I've been flip/flopping between airtricity and energia every year for years.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

Given that our civil servants mostly copy their homework from the UK ...

It will probably end up like the Octopus Agile tarrif.
https://octopus.energy/agile/

Prices are set in 30 min increments 24h in advance. Your smart equipment can then identify the best times of the day to be using it's electric

Yea, thats how it should be done alright but CRU intimated that they werent willing to do that as it would disproportionally affect poorer people who cant afford to invest in smart equipment around the house... ultimately I guess it will be like octupus but initially they were just talking about having 3 static timeframes in a 24hr period instead of the 2 we have today. That was a few years ago now that I read that, so lets see what they actually come up with.

At this point the operators cant even do day/night rate on the smart meters... its 24hr rate only! :rolleyes:

liamog

That's annoying, they should go for a hybrid system. Agile tariffs for people who can take advantage of them, and fixed time based tariffs for others, where the price only changes when you renew the contract.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

They'll probably get you on this one though...

"... or where meters are due for replacement at the end of their life"


And your providers will also probably get you by giving you an unfavourable rate if you dont have a smart meter.

The providers will get you either way.

If the meter is functioning properly then there is no reason to replace it, that wouldn't be grounds for forcibly replacing the meter just because it's old.

Nedved85

My contract is up early september - Can I sign up for a new contract now to start on the xth of September?

It seems from Energia's website that there is no option to pick a date to start with them. eg: they want today's energy reading. Guess I just wait until the existing contract has expired.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

But how would you do that unless its daily pricing?

It could be blowing a gale tonight at 3am with loads of green energy and tomorrow it could be blowing a gale at 6pm?!


I would expect the smart meter based tariffs to be based around flattening the curve and reducing reliance on peaker plants not based around when green energy is being generated.

I would expect a fixed cheaper rate for times there is more green energy on the grid and higher rate when there is less.

So if it's blowing only a gale you pay more and a decent windy night at 3am you pay less.

It would screw up electric car charging as they are programmed only by fixed day/night tariffs, smart meters linked to smart chargers that can talk to each other, that would probably be expensive.

It would be a pain in the ass to pay more for charging at night when I can't be home during the day.

+ it would be much more awkward for the consumer to know when the rate is cheap or not but I expect this fixed day/night tariff to end when they have enough meters and the energy providers could potentially remove the night tariff as a way to force you to install this new meter.

KCross

Nedved85 wrote: »

My contract is up early september - Can I sign up for a new contract now to start on the xth of September?

It seems from Energia's website that there is no option to pick a date to start with them. eg: they want today's energy reading. Guess I just wait until the existing contract has expired.

In my experience, no.
If you push the button to switch too early you will get hit with an early termination fee.

Find out your exact date that you signed up and only push the button on the anniversary of that date.... not even 1min before or the entire early termination fee will be auto applied.... i've been there!

Nedved85

Nedved85 wrote: »

My contract is up early september - Can I sign up for a new contract now to start on the xth of September?

It seems from Energia's website that there is no option to pick a date to start with them. eg: they want today's energy reading. Guess I just wait until the existing contract has expired.

If you are already an energia customer you won't get the cheaper rate which is only for new customers which is why I cancelled the account and set up in the missus name.

Nedved85

Deleted User wrote: »

If you are already an energia customer you won't get the cheaper rate which is only for new customers which is why I cancelled the account and set up in the missus name.

I'm with Electric Ireland at the moment thankfully

the_amazing_raisin

Deleted User wrote: »

It would screw up electric car charging as they are programmed only by fixed day/night tariffs, smart meters linked to smart chargers that can talk to each other, that would probably be expensive.

It would be a pain in the ass to pay more for charging at night when I can't be home during the day.

I think some of the smart chargers like the Zappi can have an external trigger which will start charging. Basically it's like night rates but the electricity meter sends a signal when the rate is cheap. No idea if the smart meters we have here can support that though



You'd also need to set it to deliver a certain number of kWh before morning, otherwise you'll get a bit of a surprise when you hop in the car :eek:


Personally I think the whole agile metering thing works best for people who have storage batteries at home, they know their daily usage and are better able to take advantage of when it's cheap.


That or use some sort of trigger described above to kick off your washing machine, dishwasher, dryer and EV charger when the rates are cheap. Of course it's difficult to stop some of them if the rate went up again.


I think the big work needs to be done on the grid end, more battery storage, more pumped hydro, more EVs with V2G, more domestic solar with batteries and export meters and more green energy generation

Nedved85

Nedved85 wrote: »

I'm with Electric Ireland at the moment thankfully

Grand so, you'll make a right saving.

cruisey1987

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I think some of the smart chargers like the Zappi can have an external trigger which will start charging. Basically it's like night rates but the electricity meter sends a signal when the rate is cheap. No idea if the smart meters we have here can support that though



You'd also need to set it to deliver a certain number of kWh before morning, otherwise you'll get a bit of a surprise when you hop in the car :eek:


Personally I think the whole agile metering thing works best for people who have storage batteries at home, they know their daily usage and are better able to take advantage of when it's cheap.


That or use some sort of trigger described above to kick off your washing machine, dishwasher, dryer and EV charger when the rates are cheap. Of course it's difficult to stop some of them if the rate went up again.


I think the big work needs to be done on the grid end, more battery storage, more pumped hydro, more EVs with V2G, more domestic solar with batteries and export meters and more green energy generation

I'd be happy with a feed-in-tariff at the moment, it would give me the incentive to get solar PV it's just sad we're limited to 5.5 Kw to the grid on single phase.

No need for expensive battery with grid storage.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

If you push the button to switch too early you will get hit with an early termination fee.

Find out your exact date that you signed up and only push the button on the anniversary of that date.... not even 1min before or the entire early termination fee will be auto applied.... i've been there!

Yep, me too

I wouldn't be me though if I hadn't got a full refund of those fees