Is anyone else getting scared of where society is going?

sid waddell

Danzy wrote: »

All the people who were Jesuits years ago, who became the Priest on the pulpit who screamed, eyes bulging, about how everyone was a sinner have joined the Church of Self declared progressives.

Once upon a time the left was comprised of regular people, was relatable, relevant and approachable.

Lot changed since that.

So you're saying that the left is not comprised of regular people, is relatable or relevant or approachable?

Who for example in the Dail are you thinking of when you say that?

Who in the US or Britain are you thinking of when you say that?

Take Alexandria Ocaasio-Cortez, who is usually held up as the standard bearer for the young left. She seems absolutely full of all those qualities as far as I can see.

How is she not a regular person (she worked in a bar)? How is she not relatable or relevant or approachable?

Your post also carries the corollary that the right is all of those things you say the left is not. Who are you thinking of?

Trump? Stephen Yaxley-Lennon? Nick Griffin? Ben Gilroy? Arlene Foster?

titan18

Based on a previous Michigan ruling, itd be racist to convict.

As per the article I posted earlier.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/a-michigan-court-case-shows-the-right-of-armed-self-defense-is-broader-than-you-might-think/

It says
The case was immediately controversial, with critics of the verdict claiming that the case represented “yet another instance of a black gun owner, with the permits to legally carry, defending themselves against violence — and getting punished for it.

So in this case we've a white gun owner, with the permits to legally carry, defending themselves against violence and getting punished for it.

Shouting I'll beat your white ass is about as violent as reversing your car into another car especially regarding threat to life.

sid waddell

SFC1895 wrote: »

You've missed my point, intentionally or otherwise. The poster was so consumed with white guilt that they posted a fairly irrational argument, i.e- it was wrong for the white person to draw the gun, but quite alright for the black person to kill the white person.



People can feel guilt for anything they like, take all the knees they want, so long as they don't impose their views on others.

Who's imposing their views on you?

I would say that it looks like you want to do that, if anything.

Can you give me some examples of how you are having views "imposed" ion you?

Or is it that you just don't like being challenged in any way and thus create a straw man that you are having views "imposed" upon you as a coping mechanism, a convenient way to wallow in false victimhood?

callmehal

I think everyone's racist.

Limpy

The funny thing that the black folk in America have no motivation to vote for either White candidates regardless of what Twitter says. Trumps supporters will totally be motivated to vote for him.

Its like America is going full circle back to confederacy.

SFC1895

sid waddell wrote: »

Who's imposing their views on you?

I would say that it looks like you want to do that, if anything.

Can you give me some examples of how you are having views "imposed" ion you?

Or is it that you just don't like being challenged in any way and thus create a straw man that you are having views "imposed" upon you as a coping mechanism, a convenient way to wallow in false victimhood?

Very strange conclusions you're coming up with here. You seem very upset, maybe you should have a lie down.


Tell me the views that I wish to impose on others then? Perhaps I object to being told that I should feel guilt about something that happened in another part of the world centuries ago because of the arbitrary nature of the colour I happened to have been born. Or perhaps I don't.



Some shout about straw man arguments from the poster who set up a false flag thread talking about dehumanising transgender people in the past couple of hours!

sid waddell

sid waddell wrote: »

Who's imposing their views on you?

I would say that it looks like you want to do that, if anything.

Can you give me some examples of how you are having views "imposed" ion you?

Or is it that you just don't like being challenged in any way and thus create a straw man that you are having views "imposed" upon you as a coping mechanism, a convenient way to wallow in false victimhood?

I would say it is the common narrative on social media and media itself that all white people have white privilege and therefore anyone who signs up for that belief believes that white peoples opinion are diminished (even slightly) by virtue of their perceived privilege.

That is what I would consider an imposition.

There is nothing false about it either.

RasTa

titan18 wrote: »

Based on a previous Michigan ruling, itd be racist to convict.

As per the article I posted earlier.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/a-michigan-court-case-shows-the-right-of-armed-self-defense-is-broader-than-you-might-think/

It says
The case was immediately controversial, with critics of the verdict claiming that the case represented “yet another instance of a black gun owner, with the permits to legally carry, defending themselves against violence — and getting punished for it.

So in this case we've a white gun owner, with the permits to legally carry, defending themselves against violence and getting punished for it.

Shouting I'll beat your white ass is about as violent as reversing your car into another car especially regarding threat to life.

That's an interesting case. However reversing into a car is different and she didn't pull the gun the moment she shouted I'll beat your white ass.

Also the jury convicted the black woman but it was overturned on appeal.

callmehal

callmehal wrote: »

I think everyone's racist.

That's racist.

titan18

Yup, court of appeals said they couldn't have as it's not lethal force unless they actually use the gun. Pulling the gun isn't a crime if you feel that theres a threat to life. I'd argue that there was as much threat to life as that case. Possibly more so if she is actually pregnant.

A lawyer can actually argue that the black woman is guilty of false imprisonment by preventing the car from pulling out.

ronivek

titan18 wrote: »

As per the article I posted earlier.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/a-michigan-court-case-shows-the-right-of-armed-self-defense-is-broader-than-you-might-think/

So in this case we've a white gun owner, with the permits to legally carry, defending themselves against violence and getting punished for it.

I'm not sure you understood the ruling made by the appeals court.

What they ruled was that the jury was not instructed appropriately in the case; and if they *had* been properly instructed it would have been reasonable for them to have returned a different verdict.

So the relevance of the appeals court ruling to this particular case is that the jury will need to be properly instructed. That's it; it doesn't give people free reign to wave guns around.

titan18 wrote: »

Shouting I'll beat your white ass is about as violent as reversing your car into another car especially regarding threat to life.

What?

So saying "say something and I'll beat your white ass" is the same level of violence as reversing your car into someone? Which by the way the white woman did to the black woman in this case and not the other way around as your comparison to the appeals court ruling might suggest.

RasTa

titan18 wrote: »

Yup, court of appeals said they couldn't have as it's not lethal force unless they actually use the gun. Pulling the gun isn't a crime if you feel that theres a threat to life. I'd argue that there was as much threat to life as that case. Possibly more so if she is actually pregnant.

A lawyer can actually argue that the black woman is guilty of false imprisonment by preventing the car from pulling out.

Threat to life with what? Both her and the husband are carrying guns, what the hell is a 15 year and an overweight black woman going to do to them? Anyone can pull a gun in an argument in Michigan going by your logic.

titan18

ronivek wrote:

So saying "say something and I'll beat your white ass" is the same level of violence as reversing your car into someone? Which by the way the white woman did to the black woman in this case and not the other way around as your comparison to the appeals court ruling might suggest.

Reversed into the car tbf not the person.

The comparison is cos Michigan court ruled that drawing a gun is non deadly force and that only means the defendant has to prove they reasonably believe that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.

Which the white woman in this case definitely can as she was already threatened and the black woman was preventing them leaving

titan18

Not my logic, the logic of a court in Michigan which sets a precedent in a trial that you can't ignore.

And since concealed carry is legal there, if it was me, I'd go on the assumption this person could have a gun

RasTa

titan18 wrote: »

Not my logic, the logic of a court in Michigan which sets a precedent in a trial that you can't ignore.

And since concealed carry is legal there, if it was me, I'd go on the assumption this person could have a gun

Ah so your new argument is she might have had a gun? What happened to threats of violence?

Danzy

Tell me how wrote: »

Tell me what you think it has been replaced by.

Middle class priests.

25 years of community activism, party political activism, SF

The majority of the left has changed, it is like it is needing a psychological need for the activists now, a purpose in life, so dogmatic, absolutism and righteousness.

EagererBeaver

GarIT wrote: »

I think that's how I'd react too. I can't handle stress like that, if I was in that situation I'd panic and pull a gun.

Put simply, if this is the case, you're the effing problem and precisely why people like you (and the rest of us) aren't (and shouldn't be) allowed guns.

mynamejeff

callmehal wrote: »

I think everyone's racist.

including you ….. bloody racist :-)

RasTa

titan18 wrote: »

Which the white woman in this case definitely can as she was already threatened and the black woman was preventing them leaving

You would have to be pretty racist if you think the black woman was a threat to this couples life. I'd say the husband is embarrassed by wife's actions as he wasn't waving his gun around like a maniac.

titan18

RasTa wrote:

Ah so your new argument is she might have had a gun? What happened to threats of violence?

I think most people with common sense see a threat of violence when someone shouts I'll beat your white ass.

GarIT

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Put simply, if this is the case, you're the effing problem and precisely why people like you (and the rest of us) aren't (and shouldn't be) allowed guns.

I think a lot of people would be similar, and would pull a gun if they had one and felt threatened.

I agree that we are better off without guns.

GarIT

GarIT wrote: »

I've just seen a video where a black mother and daughter were horrible had a yada yada yada blacks are scary bad white power I wanna be a Brit m’kay.

DOGGGGGGGWWWWWHHHHHHIIIIISSSSSSTTTTTLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEE BBBBBUUUUULLLLLLSSSSSHHHHHIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTT

Edit, seeing as I will not be posting in this thread again: I don’t see a thread designed to ferment fear & hatred against black people as constructive in the first place, the opposite in fact, it undermines Ireland’s authoritative place as a nation guilty of no wrongdoing against other nations. I hold that the post is not made in earnest, but as a part of a wider push to make Ireland more racist by one of the countless horrible racists empowered by the anonymity that the internet provides to write their bile, who may or may not be Irish but sure would like to see a far right strongman government. I reject the premise in its entirety, and hope to see its proponents rejected as the evil they are by wider society.

Silentcorner

It's little things like this give me great pleasure....

They had banned fireworks on the 4th of July in LA...

On a night where there are people in the US who are claiming that it is a holiday that represents white supremacy....

That is how you give two fingers to the people who want to control you....

joe40

GarIT wrote: »

I think a lot of people would be similar, and would pull a gun if they had one and felt threatened.

I agree that we are better off without guns.

If I felt really threatened, and panicked and in fear of my life I don't know what I would do. None of us really do.
But I think in that situation, if had the choice of staying in my car and driving off or getting out with a gun, I would drive off.
From the video it is pretty obvious driving away was an option.

RasTa

titan18 wrote: »

I think most people with common sense see a threat of violence when someone shouts I'll beat your white ass.

She said that to the husband, why didn't he pull the gun?

Tokyo

Deleted User wrote: »

DOGGGGGGGWWWWWHHHHHHIIIIISSSSSSTTTTTLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEE BBBBBUUUUULLLLLLSSSSSHHHHHIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTT

Mod: Seeing as you have nothing constructive to add, don't post in the thread again.

GarIT

Tell me how wrote: »

If the 'Left' get their way, there will be more inclusiveness equality and fairness for all members of society in a world where people are eager in maintaining it for future generations.

If the 'Right' get their way, it will develop in to more disparate groupings where opportunity is held and controlled by a small proportion of people and the natural resources of the planet are there to be exploited by those in a position to do so without any concern of what comes next.

Neither statement is entirely true but why would want to be on the side of those who prefer the latter than the former, unless you think that you belong to the group who will be in control.

That's not the left I know. They are losing their inclusiveness in favour a victim points scoring. They are happy to declare the opinions of white men irrelevant and even treat women poorly when an issue comes up involving trans women. The problem with the equality they want is that they want everyone to have the same outcome regardless of effort or ability. They want fairness unless you are white or male. They are reducing every argument down to the box you fit into based on colour, gender and sexuality, and whether you are for or against with no nuance allowed.

Huge number of problems with the right too but I think you agree on that without me needing to make any points.

I'm strongly in favour of allowing people to be individuals again and not judging people based on how much of a victim they can be.

titan18

RasTa wrote:

She said that to the husband, why didn't he pull the gun?

He did from what I saw, just left it pointed down. Woman kept it pointed out whilst the husband reversed the car.

RasTa

titan18 wrote: »

He did from what I saw, just left it pointed down. Woman kept it pointed out whilst the husband reversed the car.

Nope, also didn't pull it the moment it was said. Walked away like a normal human

sid waddell

sid waddell wrote: »

I'm not scared of where the majority of society is going, as I think the vast majority of people are reasonable, but I'm definitely scared of the very vocal minority of far right extremists who want to drag society into the sort of chaos situation America has descended into under Trump.

These people have no positive vision for society and seem to live their lives in a permanent state of paranoia.

I mean if you want proof of the insanity of such views it's all over the place. Trump has been a total disaster. Such views are disastrous for any society they take root.

People with such views are very, very vocal online, both as a recruiting tool and in order to give the impression that they are more numerous than they are.

It's a very, very strange worldview they have. They're obsessed by US style white identity politics and they seem to hate everybody who isn't a straight, white male who hates everybody who else who isn't a straight, white male.

Being a straight, white male like myself isn't good enough for them because I don't hate everybody who isn't a straight, white male.

If you don't subscribe to their way of "thinking", you're an "extremist", apparently.

Such irony.

Yet when you tried to open a thread posing as what you believe a right winger to be, it took three posts to get you thread banned.

You seem to view anyone who doesn't agree with you as right winger, racist, sexist, transphobic bigots.

I would like to know what you consider right wing extremists with regards to Ireland. Would people opposed to self ID laws be extremists? Would people who disagree with BLM be extremists?