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Is anyone else getting scared of where society is going?
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We've already had poster thedunne admit that there is no acceptable level of racism.iebamm2580 wrote: »Ireland has racists just like every country on this planet, ireland however is not racist as in systemically because i dont ever remember us coming up with strictures when we got independence to oppress black people that weren't even here Makes no sense to bring american politics to Ireland. People saying ireland is racist for not having birth right citizenship, well if that is the case nearly every country in the world including nearly all african nations must be racist too. Direct provison is racist when again people from all nationalities are treated the same. Racism will always be there between humans and most of us no its wrong but expecting irish people to believe we are inherently racist when we ourselves were oppressed is beyond ridiculous. North Africans came here in the 1600s (baltimore)and made irish people slaves ffs.
Ireland has a big racism problem in particular as regards Travellers. Peter Casey went from 1% to 20% overnight by cynically vilifying Travellers. It was disgusting. Several independent candidates were rewarded for racist rhetoric by winning a seat in the general election.
The people who have brought identity politics to Ireland are mainly the crypto-fascist online alt-right. They seem obsessed with it.
Trump is the apex of identity politics, except it's white identity politics.
And American white identity politics is indeed racist because whites are not oppressed on any level in the US for being white.
Direct Provision is an example of systemic racism. Asylum seekers, all of whom are from abroad and overwhelmingly people of colour, are treated like **** by the system because they are vulnerable, often speak no English, and have no voice in society.
Racism is learned behaviour, it is not inherent in anybody.0 -
sid waddell wrote: »We've already had poster thedunne admit that there is no acceptable level of racism.
Ireland has a big racism problem in particular as regards Travellers. Peter Casey went from 1% to 20% overnight by cynically vilifying Travellers. It was disgusting. Several independent candidates were rewarded for racist rhetoric by winning a seat in the general election.
The people who have brought identity politics to Ireland are mainly the crypto-fascist online alt-right. They seem obsessed with it.
Trump is the apex of identity politics, except it's white identity politics.
And American white identity politics is indeed racist because whites are not oppressed on any level in the US for being white.
Direct Provision is an example of systemic racism. Asylum seekers, all of whom are from abroad and overwhelmingly people of colour, are treated like **** by the system because they are vulnerable, often speak no English, and have no voice in society.
Racism is learned behaviour, it is not inherent in anybody.
You are wrong direct provison is not systemically racist, many eastern Europeans are in direct provision just like many Africans and all are treated the same, Ireland has no systemic racism that is fact.0 -
sid waddell wrote: »We've already had poster thedunne admit that there is no acceptable level of racism.
Ireland has a big racism problem in particular as regards Travellers. Peter Casey went from 1% to 20% overnight by cynically vilifying Travellers. It was disgusting. Several independent candidates were rewarded for racist rhetoric by winning a seat in the general election.
The people who have brought identity politics to Ireland are mainly the crypto-fascist online alt-right. They seem obsessed with it.
Trump is the apex of identity politics, except it's white identity politics.
And American white identity politics is indeed racist because whites are not oppressed on any level in the US for being white.
Direct Provision is an example of systemic racism. Asylum seekers, all of whom are from abroad and overwhelmingly people of colour, are treated like **** by the system because they are vulnerable, often speak no English, and have no voice in society.
Racism is learned behaviour, it is not inherent in anybody.
Do you not see that there is a chance that Peter Casey got votes not becasue people are racist but maybe travellers have been terrorising many communities and that problem has gone unaddressed?
I don't think direct provision is applied differently based on race. It's nonsense to say the are treated like **** becasue they are vunlerable. They aren't given immedate access to our social welfare systems as that would lead to millions of scammers arriving. It's not racist to establish someone's legitimaticy before allowing them access the benefits of the country.
There is significant scientific evidence that people natrually treat people diffferent from them less well, it has been proven to be inherent in everyone.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »It's not a game or a fight for me so I don't feel outpointed.
And people in glass houses Sid. You did indeed think it was a good idea to do a "parody" thread highlighting what you think right wing people think and that showed you considere all right wingers to be horrible people.
I have no problem discussing anything with anyone as long as there is honesty and genuine debate.
You seem to be obsessed with scoring points.
I'm too old and lack the inclination or the desire to play your petty games which you seem to need to ease your perceived guilt of having white privilege.
You keep fighting your good fight, I'll continue not judging people on their skin colour like the horrific right winger I am.
I like lampooning stupid views and all the stupid views I lampooned are regularly voiced unironic views by right-wingers.
The problem with so many right-wingers is they have no sense of humour, so many of them they don't really understand humour on any real level at all.
I don't know why you'd deliberately confuse lampooning with bad faith except to object to stupid views being lampooned. I have engaged in copious genuine debate here.
Again I ask, if a white person has guilt over historical and contemporary racism committed by whites, what is wrong with that?
If, say, a British person has a sense of internalised guilt over the historical oppression Britain inflicted on Ireland and their worldview is informed by such, isn't that a good thing?
It would show that they are historically literate, empathetic and willing to listen to the stories of other peoples who have suffered historic oppression.
One of the main reasons we have Brexit and the resulting rise in hate crimes and hate speech in Britain is because a lot of British people refuse to have any sense of historical guilt over their empire and are instead seduced by the fantasy that they might be "great again".
The same with supporters of Trump. Trump supporters would be much better off developing some sense of historical white guilt because then they might be able to listen to the stories of people who have suffered from oppression because of their skin colour, ethnicity, religion, sexuality or gender, instead of dismissing them.
Ironically a sense of collective and public sense of guilt is something that the far right demands of Muslims when there's an ISIS terrorist atrocity.
Yet they ridicule the notion that white people might feel any sense of historical guilt.
There's such a deep hypocrisy there.0 -
sid waddell wrote: »What is a "weak white elitist mentality"?
Could you explain?
I'm a full time carer. I get €219 a week.
But yet you claim I am "the elite with all the money and power"!
So what is the explanation for your White guilt unless you have something more than you feel you deserve?
Maybe you are just weak and White without being Elite,but you are surely and strongly spouting the establishment line on this thread for someone on 219 a week.0 -
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See, the way Casey picked on Travellers and whipped up generalised anger against them was the exact same thing that demagogues have done for centuries.Do you not see that there is a chance that Peter Casey got votes not becasue people are racist but maybe travellers have been terrorising many communities and that problem has gone unaddressed?
I don't think direct provision is applied differently based on race. It's nonsense to say the are treated like **** becasue they are vunlerable. They aren't given immedate access to our social welfare systems as that would lead to millions of scammers arriving. It's not racist to establish someone's legitimaticy before allowing them access the benefits of the country.
There is significant scientific evidence that people natrually treat people diffferent from them less well, it has been proven to be inherent in everyone.
This is really basic stuff.
Nobody is saying that Travellers don't have significant challenges and problems within their community, but they sure aren't going to be solved by Casey's rhetoric, they will only be made worse by such bigoted demagoguery.
Of all the peoples in the world, you'd think the Irish would actually understand this, having been historical victims of it themselves.
I can't think of a single example ever of such demagoguery making any sort of a positive difference.
Racism is learned behaviour.
I'd strongly recommend watching this. It's Jane Elliott on the Oprah Show in 1992.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebPoSMULI5U0 -
sid waddell wrote: »We've already had poster thedunne admit that there is no acceptable level of racism.
Trump is the apex of identity politics, except it's white identity politics.
And American white identity politics is indeed racist because whites are not oppressed on any level in the US for being white.
Easy there tiger. Don't cite me as speaking for the "far right" or anyone except for myself.
I said there is no acceptable level of racism, as it is not accepted in society. But I also said everyone is a little racist.
You definitely are. You continually post about white privilege and white politics and intimating that white privilege is holding people of colour back and that every white person has a degree of privilege which needs to be rebalanced.
I find that extremely racist. Because it is. Am I offended? Not in the slightest. Because people have diluted the word racist to mean absolutely nothing.
Ten years ago if someone called me a racist I would be outraged and demanding a retraction as it would be a horrific slight on me and my character.
Now, these days, teeth whitening toothpaste is racist. Apu from the Simpsons is racist. Uncle Ben's rice brand logo of a black man is somehow racist.
The dilution of racism has gotten so bad that you can actively state that ALL white people have privilege they don't deserve and can't see that what you are saying is literally the textbook definition of racism.
You are also extremely aggressive in your interaction with people you disagree with, referring to scoring points and being needlessly inflammatory, which obviously leads to unproductive discourse (I'm guilty of that too at times btw) but you seem oblivious to your own misgivings and want to score points for "your side".
You complain about identity politics then start mentioning that white people aren't oppressed in America. Say that to a white guy living in South central la or in certain areas of the Bronx.0 -
sid waddell wrote: »Direct Provision is an example of systemic racism. Asylum seekers, all of whom are from abroad and overwhelmingly people of colour, are treated like **** by the system because they are vulnerable, often speak no English, and have no voice in society.
These statements are false.
Although the vast majority of AS are bogus, many are given leave-to-remain.
So, in fact, we are rewarding false claims with residency.
We treat them too well, we are too soft.0 -
sid waddell wrote: »I like lampooning stupid views and all the stupid views I lampooned are regularly voiced unironic views by right-wingers.
The problem with so many right-wingers is they have no sense of humour, so many of them they don't really understand humour on any real level at all.
I don't know why you'd deliberately confuse lampooning with bad faith except to object to stupid views being lampooned. I have engaged in copious genuine debate here.
Again I ask, if a white person has guilt over historical and contemporary racism committed by whites, what is wrong with that?
If, say, a British person has a sense of internalised guilt over the historical oppression Britain inflicted on Ireland and their worldview is informed by such, isn't that a good thing?
Ironically a sense of collective and public sense of guilt is something that the far right demands of Muslims when there's an ISIS terrorist atrocity.
Yet they ridicule the notion that white people might feel any sense of historical guilt.
There's such a deep hypocrisy there.
I dislike lampooning of threads such as yours on boards because they are trolling and not done for comedic value but to inflame. And that's the last thing anyone needs right now.
You consistently call me a right winger, which again, is fine. Apparently anyone critical of BLM protests is an extremist in your view so any definition of yours will be taken with a huge pinch of salt. Please do not think that my lack of pushback on this term is complicit acceptance.
There is no hypocrisy. I feel absolutely no guilt for anything white people have done. Why the hell should I?
I never once accused or suggested muslims should feel the need to feel guilt about atrocities carried out by people of their religion. Much in the same way I don't blame Catholics as being enablers of the abhorrent priests.
And no, it's absolutely not a good thing if a British person feels guilt about what their country did to Ireland years before either of us were born! How the **** would that be a good thing?
Bizarre reasoning and a total lack of self awareness of your own racism.0 -
sid waddell wrote: »See, the way Casey picked on Travellers and whipped up generalised anger against them was the exact same thing that demagogues have done for centuries.
This is really basic stuff.
Nobody is saying that Travellers don't have significant challenges and problems within their community, but they sure aren't going to be solved by Casey's rhetoric, they will only be made worse by such bigoted demagoguery.
Of all the peoples in the world, you'd think the Irish would actually understand this, having been historical victims of it themselves.
I can't think of a single example ever of such demagoguery making any sort of a positive difference.
Racism is learned behaviour.
I'd strongly recommend watching this. It's Jane Elliott on the Oprah Show in 1992.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebPoSMULI5U
I didn't say Peter Casey had some great idea for tackling the issue. Just that it is possible he won votes becasue there is an issue rather than becasue everyone wanted to jump on the racism bandwagon.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »Easy there tiger. Don't cite me as speaking for the "far right" or anyone except for myself.
I said there is no acceptable level of racism, as it is not accepted in society. But I also said everyone is a little racist.
You definitely are. You continually post about white privilege and white politics and intimating that white privilege is holding people of colour back and that every white person has a degree of privilege which needs to be rebalanced.
I find that extremely racist. Because it is. Am I offended? Not in the slightest. Because people have diluted the word racist to mean absolutely nothing.
Ten years ago if someone called me a racist I would be outraged and demanding a retraction as it would be a horrific slight on me and my character.
Now, these days, teeth whitening toothpaste is racist. Apu from the Simpsons is racist. Uncle Ben's rice brand logo of a black man is somehow racist.
The dilution of racism has gotten so bad that you can actively state that ALL white people have privilege they don't deserve and can't see that what you are saying is literally the textbook definition of racism.
You are also extremely aggressive in your interaction with people you disagree with, referring to scoring points and being needlessly inflammatory, which obviously leads to unproductive discourse (I'm guilty of that too at times btw) but you seem oblivious to your own misgivings and want to score points for "your side".
You complain about identity politics then start mentioning that white people aren't oppressed in America. Say that to a white guy living in South central la or in certain areas of the Bronx.
One can only laugh at people that want to end racism but are ok with the term "white privilege":D:D0 -
sid waddell wrote: »I like lampooning stupid views and all the stupid views I lampooned are regularly voiced unironic views by right-wingers.
You like talking over people as if that disqualifies what they say. It doesn't. just as it doesn't make them right wingers because they disagree with you.Again I ask, if a white person has guilt over historical and contemporary racism committed by whites, what is wrong with that?
Because such conditioning is dishonest, and brought about by external influence. It's a blatant case of double standards. One rule for white people, and something different for <insert other racial group>.If, say, a British person has a sense of internalised guilt over the historical oppression Britain inflicted on Ireland and their worldview is informed by such, isn't that a good thing?
Actually, no, it wouldn't. They are not responsible for the past, and even had it happened during their lifetimes, probably they wouldn't have had any opportunity to influence events. The past is the past. It's time to put all that BS behind us and move on.It would show that they are historically literate, empathetic and willing to listen to the stories of other peoples who have suffered historic oppression.
Except that the people who experienced such are dead, and it's just people haven't experienced any such thing who are complaining about it.... or you're encouraging collective guilt which is simply hiding your own brand of racism... along with very selective appreciation of history.One of the main reasons we have Brexit and the resulting rise in hate crimes and hate speech in Britain is because a lot of British people refuse to have any sense of historical guilt over their empire and are instead seduced by the fantasy that they might be "great again".
Rubbish. It's because their political system has failed them repeatedly. They have severe problems with multiculturalism and no realistic plans coming from anywhere to resolve those problems. The EU certainly wasn't interested in limiting multiculturalism... Few British people genuinely believe that the UK can become great again. They're not retards. The world has moved on. Economically, the UK is weak in industry, technology, and their infrastructure is failing them.The same with supporters of Trump. Trump supporters would be much better off developing some sense of historical white guilt because then they might be able to listen to the stories of people who have suffered from oppression because of their skin colour, ethnicity, religion, sexuality or gender, instead of dismissing them.
As opposed to the Trump supporters who are from minority white groups who have experienced those very same things? Trump gains a lot of support from the poor in the US... why? because he offers them the potential for jobs that they can actually do, whereas other presidents promised them a declining manufacturing base and rising costs.
And as for your collective guilt, it simply shows how little you understand about American politics. Few average people have any real influence over what happens. The US is controlled by the wealthy, and while they're mostly white, they're also not representative of the majority population.Ironically a sense of collective and public sense of guilt is something that the far right demands of Muslims when there's an ISIS terrorist atrocity.
Yet they ridicule the notion that white people might feel any sense of historical guilt.
There's such a deep hypocrisy there.
That's what happens when you promote double standards to be applied.... everyone who feels wronged will jump on the bandwagon. You yourself have been pushing it. :rolleyes:0 -
I wasn't the person who brought up white privilege, I responded to a post about it.Deleted User wrote: »Easy there tiger. Don't cite me as speaking for the "far right" or anyone except for myself.
I said there is no acceptable level of racism, as it is not accepted in society. But I also said everyone is a little racist.
You definitely are. You continually post about white privilege and white politics and intimating that white privilege is holding people of colour back and that every white person has a degree of privilege which needs to be rebalanced.
I find that extremely racist. Because it is. Am I offended? Not in the slightest. Because people have diluted the word racist to mean absolutely nothing.
Ten years ago if someone called me a racist I would be outraged and demanding a retraction as it would be a horrific slight on me and my character.
Now, these days, teeth whitening toothpaste is racist. Apu from the Simpsons is racist. Uncle Ben's rice brand logo of a black man is somehow racist.
The dilution of racism has gotten so bad that you can actively state that ALL white people have privilege they don't deserve and can't see that what you are saying is literally the textbook definition of racism.
You are also extremely aggressive in your interaction with people you disagree with, referring to scoring points and being needlessly inflammatory, which obviously leads to unproductive discourse (I'm guilty of that too at times btw) but you seem oblivious to your own misgivings and want to score points for "your side".
You complain about identity politics then start mentioning that white people aren't oppressed in America. Say that to a white guy living in South central la or in certain areas of the Bronx.
You see again, you've returned to that tired old thing that right-wingers do, where they try to ridicule anti-racism and dismiss lived experience and the voices of people who hold it. As well as being a very bad attempt at comedy - good comedy works by challenging power structures, not celebrating them - it shows a distinct lack of good faith.
What you are saying is that any form of critical self-examination of where somebody tries to examine in good faith whether they may have internalised any form of racism, that that act is itself racist.
I don't think there's any way of arguing against something so obviously ludicrous and so obviously a bad faith attempt to twist reality.
And again, after complaining about things being called racist, you do the exact thing you say you dislike so much, call me a racist, based on nothing except me making a perfectly fair point you found uncomfortable.
I'm sure racism against white people does exist, and any anti-white racism that does occur is certainly not acceptable behaviour, but at the same time you can sort of understand how some individual black or ethnic minority people might have a complex about whites, black people having suffered from consistent white oppression and racism in the US since 1619 and throughout the history of imperialism, including, you know, slavery - which is still a live issue in the US, given that there are a lot of white people out there who refuse to countenance the removal of Confederate symbolism and paraphernalia.
Anti-white racism as a concept, utterly reprehensible as it may be, also does not carry the weight of historical context as a system of oppression and enslavement that racism perpetrated by whites does.0 -
sid waddell wrote: »You see again, you've returned to that tired old thing that right-wingers do, where they try to ridicule anti-racism and dismiss lived experience and the voices of people who hold it.
Explain to me how you are anti-racism when you engage in racism yourself?
I'd love to hear your logic... it'll be fun to tear it apart.
[oh, and when you label people as right-wingers, you're dismissing their opinions. For someone who talks about Irony, you seem to miss it]0 -
How is a white person having a sense of guilt about historical and contemporary white racist oppression, racist?Deleted User wrote: »You like talking over people as if that disqualifies what they say. It doesn't. just as it doesn't make them right wingers because they disagree with you.
Because such conditioning is dishonest, and brought about by external influence. It's a blatant case of double standards. One rule for white people, and something different for <insert other racial group>.
Actually, no, it wouldn't. They are not responsible for the past, and even had it happened during their lifetimes, probably they wouldn't have had any opportunity to influence events. The past is the past. It's time to put all that BS behind us and move on.
Except that the people who experienced such are dead, and it's just people haven't experienced any such thing who are complaining about it.... or you're encouraging collective guilt which is simply hiding your own brand of racism... along with very selective appreciation of history.
Rubbish. It's because their political system has failed them repeatedly. They have severe problems with multiculturalism and no realistic plans coming from anywhere to resolve those problems. The EU certainly wasn't interested in limiting multiculturalism... Few British people genuinely believe that the UK can become great again. They're not retards. The world has moved on. Economically, the UK is weak in industry, technology, and their infrastructure is failing them.
As opposed to the Trump supporters who are from minority white groups who have experienced those very same things? Trump gains a lot of support from the poor in the US... why? because he offers them the potential for jobs that they can actually do, whereas other presidents promised them a declining manufacturing base and rising costs.
And as for your collective guilt, it simply shows how little you understand about American politics. Few average people have any real influence over what happens. The US is controlled by the wealthy, and while they're mostly white, they're also not representative of the majority population.
That's what happens when you promote double standards to be applied.... everyone who feels wronged will jump on the bandwagon. You yourself have been pushing it. :rolleyes:
It's literally the opposite of racism.
Again, a poster mistakes anti-racism for racism. I'm beginning to sense a distinct pattern here, and it's disturbing.
You literally couldn't get a more archetypal product of the US ruling elite than Trump.
And that's exactly how he has ruled - for those like him - the 0.01%, and nobody else.
As Johnny Rotten once said, "ever get the feeling you've been conned"?
You should, you know.
Because you and his supporters have been.0 -
sid waddell wrote: »You seem to think that any form of bigotry is acceptable.
I certainly consider anybody who disagrees with the general aim of the protests to be an extremist.
Like, objecting to and disagreeing with protests against racist police brutality and murder does seem a bit extreme, given that it very strongly implies that one actually supports racist police brutality and murder.
If protests are against police brutality, fair enough.
These US police seem poorly trained, surely there are better ways to defuse situations.
But I strongly reject the BLM organisation, as they want:- to abolish free market economies
- to dis-mantle families
As I believe in free market economies, like those that exist across Europe, I reject BLM. I don't want to live in a centrally-planned society.
As I strongly want children to be reared by their families, and not in a collective, I reject BLM.0 -
sid waddell wrote: »I wasn't the person who brought up white privilege, I responded to a post about it.
You see again, you've returned to that tired old thing that right-wingers do, where they try to ridicule anti-racism and dismiss lived experience and the voices of people who hold it. As well as being a very bad attempt at comedy - good comedy works by challenging power structures, not celebrating them - it shows a distinct lack of good faith.
What you are saying is that any form of critical self-examination of where somebody tries to examine in good faith whether they may have internalised any form of racism, that that act is itself racist.
I don't think there's any way of arguing against something so obviously ludicrous and so obviously a bad faith attempt to twist reality.
And again, after complaining about things being called racist, you do the exact thing you say you dislike so much, call me a racist, based on nothing except me making a perfectly fair point you found uncomfortable.
I'm sure racism against white people does exist, and any anti-white racism that does occur is certainly not acceptable behaviour, but at the same time you can sort of understand how some individual black or ethnic minority people might have a complex about whites, black people having suffered from consistent white oppression and racism in the US since 1619 and throughout the history of imperialism, including, you know, slavery - which is still a live issue in the US, given that there are a lot of white people out there who refuse to countenance the removal of Confederate symbolism and paraphernalia.
Anti-white racism as a concept, utterly reprehensible as it may be, also does not carry the weight of historical context as a system of oppression and enslavement that racism perpetrated by whites does.
I don't know whether you meant to quote me in that response but if you did, it has nothing to do with what I said.
I had no part in historic racism nor am I feeling in any way guilty, I have no intention of using comedy and have no say in whether or not people use a Confederate flag in America (bizarre to bring up).
I'm not and will never ridicule anti racism. I have stated that countless times. I abhor racism; Racism being the prejudice of people based on their ethnicity.
That's my definition.
I think it's quite a decent one and whether or not you want to change it, I won't budge an inch on it.0 -
sid waddell wrote: »I wasn't the person who brought up white privilege, I responded to a post about it.
You see again, you've returned to that tired old thing that right-wingers do, where they try to ridicule anti-racism and dismiss lived experience and the voices of people who hold it. As well as being a very bad attempt at comedy - good comedy works by challenging power structures, not celebrating them - it shows a distinct lack of good faith.
What you are saying is that any form of critical self-examination of where somebody tries to examine in good faith whether they may have internalised any form of racism, that that act is itself racist.
I don't think there's any way of arguing against something so obviously ludicrous and so obviously a bad faith attempt to twist reality.
And again, after complaining about things being called racist, you do the exact thing you say you dislike so much, call me a racist, based on nothing except me making a perfectly fair point you found uncomfortable.
I'm sure racism against white people does exist, and any anti-white racism that does occur is certainly not acceptable behaviour, but at the same time you can sort of understand how some individual black or ethnic minority people might have a complex about whites, black people having suffered from consistent white oppression and racism in the US since 1619 and throughout the history of imperialism, including, you know, slavery - which is still a live issue in the US, given that there are a lot of white people out there who refuse to countenance the removal of Confederate symbolism and paraphernalia.
Anti-white racism as a concept, utterly reprehensible as it may be, also does not carry the weight of historical context as a system of oppression and enslavement that racism perpetrated by whites does.
There's no historical contrext for racism here except against white Irish people.
There is more anti-Irish racism on this island than anti-black racism.
No, I absolutely can't understand how we can welcome somone who had it worse elsewhere, help them have a better quality of life, share out limited resources with them and they have a complex about whites?
Ireland doesn't owe any nation or nationality anything. Irish people are happy with how Ireland is. If someone wants to come here they can accept our culture, traditions and way of life. If they don't like it nobody is forcing them to come here.0 -
Oh. Yay. One of these kind of posters. can't be bothered quoting the pieces you're going to respond to? Or is this just so that you can misrepresent what I posted? Sigh.sid waddell wrote: »How is a white person having a sense of guilt about historical and contemporary white racist oppression, racist?
Misrepresentation, number 1. Why am I not surprised?Again, a poster mistakes anti-racism for racism. I'm beginning to sense a distinct pattern here, and it's disturbing.
Yes, that's the sensation you get when you realise you've been wrong all this time.You literally couldn't get a more archetypal product of the US ruling elite than Trump.
And? That doesn't even remotely relate to what I said. Go on, try again.And that's exactly how he has ruled - for those like him - the 0.01%, and nobody else.
Huh? Who? Trump? The mans a tool. But then, the US hasn't had a decent president since Clinton and even there, he was dodgy.
Still... not related to my post. Anything else?As Johnny Rotten once said, "ever get the feeling you've been conned"?
You should, you know.
Because you and his supporters have been.
why did you bother quoting my post and then not actually dealing with any of my points?
Err... how have I been conned? Ahh.. by you! Not Trump. I understand now... Gotcha. I thought you might be interested in actually discussing something. Shame on me.0 -
sid waddell wrote: »I wasn't the person who brought up white privilege, I responded to a post about it.
You see again, you've returned to that tired old thing that right-wingers do, where they try to ridicule anti-racism and dismiss lived experience and the voices of people who hold it. As well as being a very bad attempt at comedy - good comedy works by challenging power structures, not celebrating them - it shows a distinct lack of good faith.
What you are saying is that any form of critical self-examination of where somebody tries to examine in good faith whether they may have internalised any form of racism, that that act is itself racist.
I don't think there's any way of arguing against something so obviously ludicrous and so obviously a bad faith attempt to twist reality.
And again, after complaining about things being called racist, you do the exact thing you say you dislike so much, call me a racist, based on nothing except me making a perfectly fair point you found uncomfortable.
I'm sure racism against white people does exist, and any anti-white racism that does occur is certainly not acceptable behaviour, but at the same time you can sort of understand how some individual black or ethnic minority people might have a complex about whites, black people having suffered from consistent white oppression and racism in the US since 1619 and throughout the history of imperialism, including, you know, slavery - which is still a live issue in the US, given that there are a lot of white people out there who refuse to countenance the removal of Confederate symbolism and paraphernalia.
Anti-white racism as a concept, utterly reprehensible as it may be, also does not carry the weight of historical context as a system of oppression and enslavement that racism perpetrated by whites does.
So everyone that disagrees with u is instantly a right winger?
What wing would you class yourself?0 -
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sid waddell wrote: »How is a white person having a sense of guilt about historical and contemporary white racist oppression, racist?
It's literally the opposite of racism.
Again, a poster mistakes anti-racism for racism. I'm beginning to sense a distinct pattern here, and it's disturbing.
You literally couldn't get a more archetypal product of the US ruling elite than Trump.
And that's exactly how he has ruled - for those like him - the 0.01%, and nobody else.
As Johnny Rotten once said, "ever get the feeling you've been conned"?
You should, you know.
Because you and his supporters have been.
You've a massive hard on for trump talk.
Parking that aside, your own opinion on white privilege would be the opposite of racism if you applied it just to yourself.
See, the thing with racism is, when you apply a statement, an attribute or judgement on everyone within an ethnicity purely based on their skin colour or ethnic group, that's when it's racist.
You believe everyone has white privilege and somehow feel superior because you "own" it, rather than the likes of me who reject the silly prejudiced premise.
May I ask how much of your carers allowance are you donating to BLM or are you not THAT interested in reparations?0 -
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EagererBeaver wrote: »Say what now?
Mind blowing levels of stupidity.
Have you read their "manifesto"?0 -
EagererBeaver wrote: »Say what now?
Mind blowing levels of stupidity.
Don't mind him, he has been on the BLM websites again listening to the organizers and founders.0 -
There's more anti-Irish racism on this island than anti-black racism?There's no historical contrext for racism here except against white Irish people.
There is more anti-Irish racism on this island than anti-black racism.
No, I absolutely can't understand how we can welcome somone who had it worse elsewhere, help them have a better quality of life, share out limited resources with them and that have a complex about whites?
What a strange comment. Firstly the Irish are not a race. Secondly, and I presume you're referring to Unionists/Loyalists above, they are not a separate race to the Nationalists/Republicans, certainly if you're talking about the overwhelming majority of either who identify as such, who are white. I presume you're talking about sectarian/political bigotry.
Thirdly, there is a significant number of Irish people who are people of colour or a distinct ethnic group. If they suffer racism it is not because they are Irish.
So there is very much more anti-black racism on this island than "anti-Irish racism".
Irish people actively participated in the British Empire, in genocides against Native Americans, and fought for the Confederacy.
John Mitchel, who has I think it's nine GAA clubs named after him, was a propagandist for slavery and considered blacks to be sub-human.
Irish-Americans tend to be among the biggest supporters of Trump.
It's not a good idea to, sorry for the pun, whitewash Irish people's historical and contemporary racism.0 -
EagererBeaver wrote: »Say what now?
Mind blowing levels of stupidity.
Is this the correct website?
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.0 -
EagererBeaver wrote: »Say what now?
Mind blowing levels of stupidity.
Are you saying you don't believe it or you agree that it's crazy? Click on "About" on blacklivesmatter.com if you don't believe it.
They want to destory the western prescribed invention of the family and raise children in the community. More specifically a community of mothers and children only, men can only visit to provide the D and child support.
And yes they are anti capitalism, I don't know enough to say if their ideals are socialist or commiunst, but it really looks Russian funded to me.0 -
Society is f*cked. About time too I reckon.
"When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable" -> perfect metaphor for society today.0 -
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sid waddell wrote: »There's more anti-Irish racism on this island than anti-black racism?
What a strange comment. Firstly the Irish are not a race. Secondly, and I presume you're referring to Unionists/Loyalists above, they are not a separate race to the Nationalists/Republicans, certainly if you're talking about the overwhelming majority of either who identify as such, who are white. I presume you're talking about sectarian/political bigotry.
Thirdly, there is a significant number of Irish people who are people of colour or a distinct ethnic group. If they suffer racism it is not because they are Irish.
So there is very much more anti-black racism on this island than "anti-Irish racism".
Irish people actively participated in the British Empire, in genocides against Native Americans, and fought for the Confederacy.
John Mitchel, who has I think it's nine GAA clubs named after him, was a propagandist for slavery and considered blacks to be sub-human.
Irish-Americans tend to be among the biggest supporters of Trump.
It's not a good idea to, sorry for the pun, whitewash Irish people's historical and contemporary racism.
Lad most of ur comments are strange, you want to be anti racist, but you dont rightly understand racism... you lump large groups of people into boxes that conveniently suit your argument... regardless of facts.
Figure out what racism actually is first before you go about trying to end it... ill give you a hint you cant do it by pandering to black people and being racist to white people because of "history".
The ironic thing about the anti trump supporters is they are hoping trump fails at all costs, rather than be pleasantly surprised if he does a good job they rather see the country fail to get him out of office, all the while being as righteous as possible.0
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