What if no Vaccines work?

Bit cynical

kowloon wrote: »

Kind of proving my point there. Straight into finances because that's what matters most. Amazing how some people suddenly care so much about other people's money and mental health all of a sudden.
Obvious selfish agenda is obvious.

I wouldn't knock finances that much. It is, after all, how the health services are paid for.

I would not be surprised if in a few years politicians will be saying that "we all went mad" cowering in our homes out of fear forgetting that things still need to be paid for. "No one could have foreseen the economic collapse coming..." etc.

kowloon

Bit cynical wrote: »

I would not be surprised if in a few years politicians will be saying that "we all went mad" cowering in our homes out of fear forgetting that things still need to be paid for. "No one could have foreseen the economic collapse coming..." etc.

I'd say the take-home from the whole crisis would be to go full nuclear at the first sign of an infectious disease. Half-arsed lockdowns and selfish morons who can't follow simple rules are what create the need for further lockdowns and ultimately hurt the economy most.
New Zealand took this seriously, got rid of it and got back to normal. Every time it resurfaces they aggressively contain it.
It has to be dealt with by an entire society acting as one, rugged individualism isn't going to cut it. People will just have to accept that their personal enrichment isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things.

Parsnips

kowloon wrote: »

I'd say the take-home from the whole crisis would be to go full nuclear at the first sign of an infectious disease. Half-arsed lockdowns and selfish morons who can't follow simple rules are what create the need for further lockdowns and ultimately hurt the economy most.
New Zealand took this seriously, got rid of it and got back to normal. Every time it resurfaces they aggressively contain it.
It has to be dealt with by an entire society acting as one, rugged individualism isn't going to cut it. People will just have to accept that their personal enrichment isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things.

Well said.
There is no such thing as solidarity or unity in this part of the world.
and Far faaar too many morons. Yes Im looking at you anti maskers and covid deniers etc etc.

kowloon

kowloon wrote: »

I'd say the take-home from the whole crisis would be to go full nuclear at the first sign of an infectious disease. Half-arsed lockdowns and selfish morons who can't follow simple rules are what create the need for further lockdowns and ultimately hurt the economy most.
New Zealand took this seriously, got rid of it and got back to normal. Every time it resurfaces they aggressively contain it.
It has to be dealt with by an entire society acting as one, rugged individualism isn't going to cut it. People will just have to accept that their personal enrichment isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things.

What is the grand scheme of things? What do you define as personal enrichment?

While I can understand your frustration towards people who don't appear to care, I find it difficult to see where you are coming from with your comment about 'personal enrichment'.
You might need to have a read of the mental health thread stickied on the forum.

Bit cynical

kowloon wrote: »

I'd say the take-home from the whole crisis would be to go full nuclear at the first sign of an infectious disease. Half-arsed lockdowns and selfish morons who can't follow simple rules are what create the need for further lockdowns and ultimately hurt the economy most.
New Zealand took this seriously, got rid of it and got back to normal. Every time it resurfaces they aggressively contain it.
It has to be dealt with by an entire society acting as one, rugged individualism isn't going to cut it. People will just have to accept that their personal enrichment isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things.

I've been a critic of the government on this forum but I think one of the things they got right was realizing early on that New Zealand-style solution was a non-starter given our shared border on the island with the UK.

aido79

Bit cynical wrote: »

I've been a critic of the government on this forum but I think one of the things they got right was realizing early on that New Zealand-style solution was a non-starter given our shared border on the island with the UK.

Another thing most people seem to fail to realise with the New Zealand solution is that there are no trucks driving into New Zealand whereas there are hundred of trucks coming into Ireland every day. So even by closing the borders to International travel there would still be hundreds of International arrivals in the form of truck drivers with the potential to bring covid into Ireland.
There's no difference between a truck driver arriving from the UK or Europe. They both have exactly the same potential to bring the virus into the country.

kowloon

Bit cynical wrote: »

I've been a critic of the government on this forum but I think one of the things they got right was realizing early on that New Zealand-style solution was a non-starter given our shared border on the island with the UK.

True, diseases don't tend to respect imaginary lines on maps.
There was a lot of talk about treating this from a full island perspective. Unfortunately, they were too slow to actually organise anything and people don't do what they're told and respect invisible barriers. It's almost like cutting off the flow of people would cut off the flow of the virus.
S. Korea has done pretty well but the DMZ is a pretty effective land border.

Ultimately, if people could wrap their heads around the whole concept of 'No, you can't go out and play whenever you feel like it at others' expense' and just stick to it for a relatively short time we could all go back to the pub.

patnor1011

aido79 wrote: »

Another thing most people seem to fail to realise with the New Zealand solution is that there are no trucks driving into New Zealand whereas there are hundred of trucks coming into Ireland every day. So even by closing the borders to International travel there would still be hundreds of International arrivals in the form of truck drivers with the potential to bring covid into Ireland.
There's no difference between a truck driver arriving from the UK or Europe. They both have exactly the same potential to bring the virus into the country.

And the fact that Dublin and Shannon airport are transit airports used for connecting flights with a lot of people working there who come to contact with thousands of transiting travelers or US soldiers

aido79

patnor1011 wrote: »

And the fact that Dublin and Shannon airport are transit airports used for connecting flights with a lot of people working there who come to contact with thousands of transiting travelers or US soldiers

Yes this is another way the virus can enter Ireland which doesn't apply to New Zealand.

patnor1011

aido79 wrote: »

Yes this is another way the virus can enter Ireland which doesn't apply to New Zealand.

The world is way more interconnected and life depends on this connection so life will inevitably also suffer from it. This virus or that virus, this ideology or that ideology... We either weather it down or give up. There is no way to stop a lot of things and to try to stop any virus spreading never mention a new one is simply not possible.

New Zealand this New Zealand that... It was the same few months ago with Eastern Europe countries like Slovak or Czech republic. Pretty much zero cases with outdoors mask mandates - people were getting free masks from governmnets. They were tossed around as a shiny example of what has to be done only that this dream came crashing down quite fast.
Even New Zealand cant stop some private plane or boat with some cases coming on shore and then they will be where everyone else is. Or virus can mutate there to something much worse - possibilities are endless. Some people cant get to understand that unless there will be treatment pretty much nothing we do will matter as some measures may give us a bit more time but they also may end up costing us much more down the line.
Zero covid strategy is like war on drugs or war on terror. Never to be won.

FileNotFound

Maybe I come from a different school of thought.

In theory the m-Rna vaccine tech will allow rapid creation of vaccines into the future.

If that's is the case - we should be looking at the learnings from this one.

Does the whole world do a new Zealand? Prob not, can we control the North, No.

So really the best base plan would be simple counter measures. Masks, hand washing and keeping contacts lower than usual.

Many of us will have wfh options.

Better education in hygiene has to be a must and a rethink of medical training to focus on this.

Upskill of the current work force (medical).

There will be another, its just inevitable as populations grow.