The real scandal here is that the young and low income earners pay very little in tax

RandomViewer

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its not a stereotype or common amongst them all, its just an example.
if there was any group id say of whom the 'majority' do it it would be the Brazilians or the Romanians

In 2017 there was almost 800 million sent 'home' by foreign nationals working and for the most part paying very little in taxation. Wouldn't it be nice if the Irish state kept some of that money here.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/migrants-sent-785m-home-to-their-families-886927.html

Why ,state can't do anything efficiently,, paying off Dinny and Ronans loan payments.
Ireland in the 50s and 60 s depended on money sent home,

Eric Cartman

RandomViewer wrote: »

Why ,state can't do anything efficiently,, paying off Dinny and Ronans loan payments.
Ireland in the 50s and 60 s depended on money sent home,

ok, well you agree the middle class and high earners should get tax cuts too then ?

suicide_circus

RandomViewer wrote: »

Posted link earlier but seeing its you you probably ignored it. German living costs are much lower so the disposable income of the Germans is probably more, instead of preaching about making poor people poorer work on making Ireland a cheaper place to live

all we need to do is revamp Ireland into a global industrial powerhouse with a population of 80 million

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

all we need to do is revamp Ireland into a global industrial powerhouse with a population of 80 million

It's like comparing a Siberian tiger to a chinchilla.

SusieBlue

If we were to increase the tax for low paid workers, how on earth would they afford to live? How would they pay €1,800 rent or the extortionate car insurance rates with even less net income? The cost of living is already so high as it is.

I’m on a fairly low income, I rented for years and I lived hand to mouth during that period.
If I had even a measly €100/€200 less a month coming in I wouldn’t have been able to cover my most basic costs like rent, electricity, insurance etc.
That was how little the difference was for me to make it or break it.
And yes, the obvious answer to that is get a better job and up skill etc but someone has to work in these jobs and these people deserve a decent standard of living.

These workers are the ones who keep society ticking over, they’re the ones looking after our elderly parents in care homes, and serving us our morning coffee before work. They’d struggle even more with a higher tax rate on their already low incomes.

Fritzbox

suicide_circus wrote: »

Germany is well known for its smug middle class laughing at the poor

Not quite (I live in Germany). The German middle classes can be smug at times, but they don't laugh at the poor - they don't place them on a pedestal either.

Geuze

RandomViewer wrote: »

5 % close to full employment, and when you break that down and remove certain groups it's even lower

Although unemployment was low here during 2018, 2019, inactivity/joblessness still remained high, albeit falling, thankfully.

Geuze

RandomViewer wrote: »

5 % close to full employment, and when you break that down and remove certain groups it's even lower

Geuze

RandomViewer wrote: »

5 % close to full employment, and when you break that down and remove certain groups it's even lower

Across all household types, VLWI is very high.

Geuze

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Explain why German taxes are so high on lower earners then. The Germans are wrong, but the Irish left are right?....hahaha thanks for the laugh.

It's mainly PRSI.

It's 20% in DE, versus 4% here.

Their 20% covers:

pension
health insurance
UN insurance
LT care insurance

Lundstram

Geuze wrote: »

It's mainly PRSI.

It's 20% in DE, versus 4% here.

Their 20% covers:

pension
health insurance
UN insurance
LT care insurance

We get an eye test and a yearly dental check. :rolleyes:

Geuze

SusieBlue wrote: »

If we were to increase the tax for low paid workers, how on earth would they afford to live? How would they pay €1,800 rent or the extortionate car insurance rates with even less net income? The cost of living is already so high as it is.

A fair point.

RandomViewer

Deleted User wrote: »

It's like comparing a Siberian tiger to a chinchilla.

Dopey Fred compared them first

RandomViewer

Eric Cartman wrote: »

ok, well you agree the middle class and high earners should get tax cuts too then ?

I hate paying taxes and see it wasted everywhere, everydirty partycronie has to get a cut of whatever , f I had my way the developer who goes over budget would get six months in jail and the public servant who failed to get value for money would be sacked and assets seized

joe40

SusieBlue wrote: »

If we were to increase the tax for low paid workers, how on earth would they afford to live? How would they pay €1,800 rent or the extortionate car insurance rates with even less net income? The cost of living is already so high as it is.

I’m on a fairly low income, I rented for years and I lived hand to mouth during that period.
If I had even a measly €100/€200 less a month coming in I wouldn’t have been able to cover my most basic costs like rent, electricity, insurance etc.
That was how little the difference was for me to make it or break it.
And yes, the obvious answer to that is get a better job and up skill etc but someone has to work in these jobs and these people deserve a decent standard of living.

These workers are the ones who keep society ticking over, they’re the ones looking after our elderly parents in care homes, and serving us our morning coffee before work. They’d struggle even more with a higher tax rate on their already low incomes.

The fact that you were spending all your money every week meant that the proportion of VAT paid on goods and services per money earned was higher than some who earns enough to save money every month.

Obviously nothing wrong with saving money but Everyone pays tax in one form or another.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

You've compared low earners in both jurisdictions but you haven't compared high earners in both.

Eric Cartman

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

You've compared low earners in both jurisdictions but you haven't compared high earners in both.

in Ireland they pay more tax than in Germany and get even less services and really are shafted all round.

Idbatterim

The idiotic higher rate of vat at 23% also hurts us, the amount of stuff sold online is huge now on Amazon, Ebay etc... and the 23% vat rate which is ridiculous, puts us at an even bigger disadvantage...

atticu

RandomViewer wrote: »

I hate paying taxes and see it wasted everywhere, everydirty partycronie has to get a cut of whatever , f I had my way the developer who goes over budget would get six months in jail and the public servant who failed to get value for money would be sacked and assets seized

Can we introduce this for the private sector as well?
That way if a company tries to change over the odds, we can put the owners in jail and the staff would be sacked and assets seized.
Makes sense.

atticu

RandomViewer wrote: »

Everyone does,

Are you trying to claim that everyone pays tax?

Wanderer78

atticu wrote:

Can we introduce this for the private sector as well? That way if a company tries to change over the odds, we can put the owners in jail and the staff would be sacked and assets seized. Makes sense.

We better start building more jails then, thank God it's relatively cheap to run the judicial and prison systems, unsure who pays for it all though, it's kinna a mystery!

Wanderer78

atticu wrote:

Are you trying to claim that everyone pays tax?

Majority of citizens do, including the unemployed

jj880

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Explain why German taxes are so high on lower earners then. The Germans are wrong, but the Irish left are right?....hahaha thanks for the laugh.

The Germans havent fecked up their economy making everything so expensive its a shambles. Taxes should be higher for low income workers here but the businesses they support would shut because they just wouldn't be able to spend. You can't have it both ways.

Wanderer78

jj880 wrote:

The Germans havent fecked up their economy making everything so expensive its a shambles. Taxes should be higher for low income workers here but the businesses they support would shut because they just wouldn't be able to spend. You can't have it both ways.

The creation of the euro greatly benefitted the German economy as it's effectively the Deutsche Mark in disguise, it's economy was also well established and performing strongly at the time of its creation, compared to other Euro countries. they also had the availability of major financial institutions at their disposal, which decided it be great to chuck out tons of cheap credit across the EU, which was fecken great for us all, as all our boats rose, apparently!

The Mighty Quinn

RandomViewer wrote: »

I hate paying taxes and see it wasted everywhere, everydirty partycronie has to get a cut of whatever , f I had my way the developer who goes over budget would get six months in jail and the public servant who failed to get value for money would be sacked and assets seized

What a stupid post.

Every developer who goes over budget gets six months in jail.. You clearly haven't a notion. If you'd ever worked on large construction projects you can be hit with all sorts of unforeseen costs, many not the fault of the developer.

I'd agree it's ludicrous the situation for example with the national children's hospital, but cost over run, even small ones, are fairly routine on jobs. Contingency is built in for this very reason.

Wanderer78

The Mighty Quinn wrote:

I'd agree it's ludicrous the situation for example with the national children's hospital, but cost over run, even small ones, are fairly routine on jobs. Contingency is built in for this very reason.

Even though I understand why projects over run, there was no fcuking way the hospital was ever gonna cost the original quote, and nobody knew that!

atticu

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Majority of citizens do, including the unemployed

Let’s say that you and I go to a restaurant for lunch.
The bill arrives after we have eaten, and it is €80.00
I take €100.00 out of my wallet and put it on the table.
I ask you to make sure that the waitering staff get the money and ask you to tell them to keep the €20 change as a tip.
I then go to the bathroom to wash my hands.
When I get back, the staff have taken the money.
As we leave, the staff thank us.

Did you pay the bill?
Did you tip the staff?

Now, you could argue that you did tip the staff, as it was you who handed the money to the staff.

The thing is that it was not your money to start with, you did not earn it. What happened was that you handed over my money.

Wanderer78

atticu wrote: »

Let’s say that you and I go to a restaurant for lunch.
The bill arrives after we have eaten, and it is €80.00
I take €100.00 out of my wallet and put it on the table.
I ask you to make sure that the waitering staff get the money and ask you to tell them to keep the €20 change as a tip.
I then go to the bathroom to wash my hands.
When I get back, the staff have taken the money.
As we leave, the staff thank us.

Did you pay the bill?
Did you tip the staff?

Now, you could argue that you did tip the staff, as it was you who handed the money to the staff.

The thing is that it was not your money to start with, you did not earn it. What happened was that you handed over my money.

you re not that special! you alone dont pay everyones taxes!

many welfare recipients would have worked at some stage!

atticu

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you re not that special! you alone dont pay everyones taxes!

I never claimed that I did.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

many welfare recipients would have worked at some stage!

Many, yes, but not all.

Wanderer78

atticu wrote: »

The thing is that it was not your money to start with, you did not earn it. What happened was that you handed over my money.

atticu wrote: »

I never claimed that I did. Many, yes, but not all.

you need to reword the above then, as it implies its all of your money, but this is not absolutely true, its only partially true. taxation is also an automatic sign up, its extremely difficult to opt out but there are ways to reduce it, both legally and illegally