Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

More from Roderic O'Gorman (MOD NOTE IN OPENING POST)

Options
1…1112141617…25

Comments

  • Options
    #392
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,215 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    wha? he says right there that the views PT expressed are abhorrent to him..

    That's not what he said read it again.


  • Options
    #393
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    That's not what he said read it again.

    "Any of those views would be completely abhorrent to me"


  • Options
    #394
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,215 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    "Any of those views would be completely abhorrent to me"

    Who's views are they?


  • Options
    #395
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,315 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Who's views are they?

    Allegedly Thatchells?


  • Options
    #396
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    wha? he says right there that the views PT expressed are abhorrent to him..

    its the last line that lets tatchell off the hook completely

    "id hate it if he said those things but he didn't so its grand, I don't have to keep away from him" is what I got from that.

    If he had have completely thrown tatchell under the bus and said he would have no future association with him then that would be satisfactory. This is the most political answer of all.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #397
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    its the last line that lets tatchell off the hook completely

    "id hate it if he said those things but he didn't so its grand, I don't have to keep away from him" is what I got from that.

    If he had have completely thrown tatchell under the bus and said he would have no future association with him then that would be satisfactory. This is the most political answer of all.

    The last line if the quote is the PT clarified that what is alleged is not his view.


  • Options
    #398
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    I'm beginning to think that even throwing PT under the bus would not have been enough for some.


  • Options
    #399
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    The last line if the quote is the PT clarified that what is alleged is not his view.

    I accept that. I do not accept that this is tatchells actual view. I still think he's a toxic character and any minister for children should not be associating with him and should have worded a stronger condemnation of those things being said.


  • Options
    #400
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I accept that. I do not accept that this is tatchells actual view. I still think he's a toxic character and any minister for children should not be associating with him and should have worded a stronger condemnation of those things being said.

    He said the views were abhorrent. What words exactly would be acceptable?


  • Options
    #401
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    I'm beginning to think that even throwing PT under the bus would not have been enough for some.

    absolutely agree. There are some people who would never be pleased, but most moderate people would find it appropriate.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #402
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    He said the views were abhorrent. What words exactly would be acceptable?

    "the views Peter tatchell repeatedly shared were then and are still now abhorrent, I had only met the man once and was not aware of these views at the time. I have instructed our social media team to remove the tweet containing the photo of Peter tatchell and I would like to assure the public that I in no way condone what he wrote and will not associate with mr. tatchell or anyone else of similar views in the future"


  • Options
    #403
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,117 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Brian Hartman wrote: »
    Yes but in Berlin they were deliberately placing young boys with homosexual pedophiles for 30 years. That's a different level of sickness entirely.

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-allowed-pedophiles-to-foster-children/a-53839291

    What's that got to do with 'the left'?

    Why are you ignoring the many dodgy links between the far right and the paedos?


  • Options
    #404
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,215 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    He said the views were abhorrent. What words exactly would be acceptable?

    Yes but he goes on to add it's nothing to do with Tatchell. What is he even talking about, what view on what.
    He clarified nothing, it couldn't be any more vague a reference.


  • Options
    #405
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Why are you ignoring the many dodgy links between the far right and the paedos?
    no aware of those and dont want to google!


  • Options
    #406
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    What's that got to do with 'the left'?

    Why are you ignoring the many dodgy links between the far right and the paedos?

    Because it suits the narrative. All left is bad. Pedo bad. Left must be pedo.


  • Options
    #407
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Because it suits the narrative. All left is bad. Pedo bad. Left must be pedo.

    it is certainly a legacy issue for the left in europe;

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abuse-inquiry-labour-ministers-led-group-that-backed-paedophile-information-exchange-d0vv229rr

    at a time of sexual liberation and a rejection of traditional norms some people rather unwisely thought this should be extended to people with an interest in children.


  • Options
    #408
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    it is certainly a legacy issue for the left in europe;

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abuse-inquiry-labour-ministers-led-group-that-backed-paedophile-information-exchange-d0vv229rr

    at a time of sexual liberation and a rejection of traditional norms some people rather unwisely thought this should be extended to people with an interest in children.

    this stuff is absolutely sick.


  • Options
    #409
    Gradius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    Isn't it inevitable that x years down the road a person will be very easily able to sue the bejaysus out of the government?

    "I was told it was fine to have a sex change, but I severely regret it now that I'm an independent and mature minded adult"

    It's not like there won't be planet-loads of hard scientific evidence to back them up. Not to mention that they can point to it being the practice of a ridiculously small amount of countries, ie exceptional.

    Something similar to the thalidomide scandal but much worse?

    As for psychiatric assessments, I knew a person who was 100% groomed in what/how to answer questioning to achieve the "desired" outcome. They aren't worth a shoite, in other words, and won't hold up in court.


  • Options
    #410
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    it is certainly a legacy issue for the left in europe;

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abuse-inquiry-labour-ministers-led-group-that-backed-paedophile-information-exchange-d0vv229rr

    at a time of sexual liberation and a rejection of traditional norms some people rather unwisely thought this should be extended to people with an interest in children.

    Also a legacy of the right. In the move of protection of the sanctity of marriage. Republicans voting not to raise the age of marriage.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/idaho-congress-blocks-bill-end-child-marriage-1348919%3famp=1


  • Options
    #411
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,117 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Gradius wrote: »
    Isn't it inevitable that x years down the road a person will be very easily able to sue the bejaysus out of the government?

    "I was told it was fine to have a sex change, but I severely regret it now that I'm an independent and mature minded adult"

    It's not like there won't be planet-loads of hard scientific evidence to back them up. Not to mention that they can point to it being the practice of a ridiculously small amount of countries, ie exceptional.

    Something similar to the thalidomide scandal but much worse?

    As for psychiatric assessments, I knew a person who was 100% groomed in what/how to answer questioning to achieve the "desired" outcome. They aren't worth a shoite, in other words, and won't hold up in court.

    Given that only independent and mature minded adults will be making decisions about gender reassignment surgery, I'd have thought no, it's not inevitable at all.

    Interesting to hear your view about psychiatric assessments - do you have the same view on all psychiatric assessments, or just the ones for this particular issue?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #412
    Gradius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Given that only independent and mature minded adults will be making decisions about gender reassignment surgery, I'd have thought no, it's not inevitable at all.

    Interesting to hear your view about psychiatric assessments - do you have the same view on all psychiatric assessments, or just the ones for this particular issue?

    I read 16/17 years old. Is that correct?

    If that's the limit, and considering it's from the minister for children as opposed to minister for adults, it's ridiculous. A permanently life altering decision being taken at that age is crazy town.

    There's always the additional problem of "my cat is vegan" too from guardians.

    As for psychiatric assessments, if it is to genuinely investigate a heretofore unknown condition they may have merit. When they become essentially an exam that you have to pass, it's completely different. Study the questions and answers, easy.

    So yes, I would be floored if class actions aren't incoming. It's a slam dunk, legally.


  • Options
    #413
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,453 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    https://twitter.com/TheSTMagazine/status/1282193172697960448

    Just wondering...will those that legally change their gender be able to change it again? I am actually genuinely curious about this.


  • Options
    #414
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    this is all a bit messy.

    deflecting from some bad faith spurious accusations about "your side" with more bad faith spurious accusations about "their side" is just pointless.


  • Options
    #415
    Brian Hartman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 78 ✭✭Brian Hartman


    AllForIt wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/TheSTMagazine/status/1282193172697960448

    Just wondering...will those that legally change their gender be able to change it again? I am actually genuinely curious about this.

    Can they even 'detrans' physically? I would imagine the effects on the body would be fairly horrendous.

    And I fully expect these dissenters to be silenced.


  • Options
    #416
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Brian Hartman wrote: »
    Can they even 'detrans' physically? I would imagine the effects on the body would be fairly horrendous.

    And I fully expect these dissenters to be silenced.

    The only change that is coming with this legislation is gender being changed on paper. That's it.... It's been stated numerous times in the thread.


  • Options
    #417
    Brian Hartman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 78 ✭✭Brian Hartman


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The only change that is coming with this legislation is gender being changed on paper. That's it.... It's been stated numerous times in the thread.

    What I'm asking is, those who go through with the surgery and have regret, can they change back to what they were?


  • Options
    #418
    Acosta
    Registered Users Posts: 2,373 ✭✭✭Acosta


    https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1282261283643981824?s=20

    I'm guessing it was John McGuirk that was counting the numbers at those Youth Defence marches that were held before the abortion referendum.


  • Options
    #419
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The only change that is coming with this legislation is gender being changed on paper. That's it.... It's been stated numerous times in the thread.
    True but presumably campaigners will want to follow suit with the way things are in the US and Canada regarding hormones and surgery for minors?


  • Options
    #420
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,215 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The only change that is coming with this legislation is gender being changed on paper. That's it.... It's been stated numerous times in the thread.

    If you can't change from male to female in real life you don't need to legislate for changing it on paper.
    It creates a myriad of problems for society and confusion in children especially.
    Trans people can't change sex. That is a an unquestionable fact.

    I think we need to scrap gender in legislative thinking, Ireland should acknowledge sex only when it comes to official documentation and access to services. Gender is irrelevant, it's a statement of sexual feeling at a single snapshot in time, nothing more.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #421
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,080 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    If you can't change from male to female in real life you don't need to legislate for changing it on paper.
    It creates a myriad of problems for society and confusion in children especially.
    Trans people can't change sex. That is a an unquestionable fact.

    I think we need to scrap gender in legislative thinking, Ireland should acknowledge sex only when it comes to official documentation and access to services. Gender is irrelevant, it's a statement of sexual feeling at a single snapshot in time, nothing more.

    That wont be happening soon. Trans people exist. Get over it.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



Advertisement