PV Feed In Tariff

Jonathan

Initially you will have to have both import and export will need to be with the same suppliers but I understand that the aim is to move to a UK type model where you can have different suppliers for both import and export.

irishchris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242360#Comment_119242360

Makes sense for esb networks to be doing it but pinergy told me when signed up that they receive the export readings from esb networks themselves every six months and then pinergy process the payment every January based on those readings

BoxerX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242360#Comment_119242360

Not ESB. The FIT rate is set by your electricity provider. All ESB do is notify your electricity provider that your MPRN has a micro generator attached to it via the NC6 form and to read the export data.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242183#Comment_119242183

Is the Clean Export Guarantee of (eg) 14c a figure paid (in the form of a credit) to your account irregardless of what tariff one happens to be on at the time?

It is a credit to your bill, yes.

Its still somewhat unknown how the tariffs will work. I've my suspicions that you can't just continue on your existing plan and get the FiT on top. I've a bad feeling they will force you to move to a FiT based tariff where they can then manipulate the other rates to effectively take the FIT money back off you through higher day/night rates... but lets see the fine detail when it goes live.

And just to be clear, the 14c figure is only what SSE are offering. It is entirely decided by the provider and others can set it 0c if they so choose. Its going to get very complicated to decide which provider offers the best value as everyone will have different Solar PV systems and batteries and working from home etc.

BoxerX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242569#Comment_119242569

But that's my point.

The CRU have said in their CEG paper that the FIT has to be fair and reasonable and that suppliers will be given a chance to be so, or the CRU will step in and enforce it. So the question remains why would they risk that? They need work no harder redistributing the power we export, ESB do that, so why try to benefit from it?

I fail to see, after reading the "Remuneration of Renewables Self-consumers for exported electricity: Interim Clean Export Guarantee" Decision Paper, why new tariffs will be created.

And yes, I know SSE are 14c, and Pinergy are 13.5c, but others will follow and are unlikely to be much different especially when commercial are being given 13.5c without penalty in new tariffs. You could argue that electricity providers might use the FIT to attract new customers by offering a good deal.

You also missed my point on your response to one of my questions, the emphasis was on "irregardless of what tariff one happens to be on at the time?", not the credit to the bill part. Read in conjunction with the rest of my post, it was a rhetorical question asking if the 14c was a payment separate to an existing tariff, the whole basis of the post.

I hope that I am right when I say that the negativity surrounding the suppliers will be replaced with positivity once we know all the facts and a few more suppliers announce. I happen to believe (and I'm ready to be let down) that the CEG will be treated as a separate credit regardless of the tariff one is currently on.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242796#Comment_119242796

I got your meaning. That was what my second paragraph was directly addressing. The reality is, we don't know yet.

I hope that I am right when I say that the negativity surrounding the suppliers will be replaced with positivity once we know all the facts and a few more suppliers announce.

Fingers crossed, for sure. 14c is a great rate to get, if it doesn't have any strings attached.

My personal distrust of the providers is that smart meters were heralded as ground breaking and would benefit loads of people... the reality is very different with punitive rates being offered. Hence why I don't trust providers until I see the fine print around FiT. The headline 14c figure is great but lets see.

curioustony

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242569#Comment_119242569

That complexity is exactly why I wrote the app. GitHub. The user is tonyslogic. The project is tout-compare.

https://github.com/Tonyslogic/tout-compare

the_amazing_raisin

So is there a clear answer yet on whether you need to sign up to a specific microgeneration plan with Airtricity (with a punitive import rate)?

Or is it a case that any Airtricity customer with an NC6 form registered with ESBN will just automatically receive the payment?

If it's the latter then that's an excellent rate. Lower than the night import rate I think so you could potentially just charge your batteries off night rate and sell all your solar to the grid (if you were feeling cheeky 😁)

Also I did notice a little gem of information near the bottom, anyone who has been offered a smart meter and refused will be ineligible for deemed export

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119245152#Comment_119245152

Re refusing a smart meter

Yeah, that's across the board, I think it's mentioned in the CRU website, regarding the estimated exports.

Afaik they haven't been changing anyone on a day night meter. Only 24hr meters.

graememk

Hopefully more will show their hand sooner rather than later. Hopefully before Aug before I have to switch/renew

I wonder what is the going wholesale rate for "renewable" day energy. As SSE are 100% renewable, they only buy the kwhs their customers use from renewable sources. It could be worthwhile to offer a good feed in tariff.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119245457#Comment_119245457

This is something I find difficult to get my head around but my understanding is that the wholesale price is determined by the most expensive generator and thus agnostic of fuel type (to an extent)

Renewables are price takers, they can't set the price they sell at because they have no real control of how much they generate, whereas a gas turbine can be cycled up and down at will (assuming Gazprom don't run into more 'maintenance' problems)

So when the wholesale price is being set, basically the renewables go in first with whatever they'll generate and then any shortfall is made up of thermal generators who bid at higher prices until the demand is met

If there's a lot of renewables in the system, or demand is low, then the wholesale price goes down because there aren't as many thermal plants needed

Bobeagleburger

For deemed export do they ask do you have an hot water diverter?

Still have a 6.95c night rate until next Jan but will be following with interest.

What's the max people are expecting per year from FIT? €300?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119245546#Comment_119245546

That's my understanding too, but there must be some "premium" for renewable sources, in the fuel mix anyway.

Maybe there's a price for the general grid and then for renewable only? There has to be some distinction.

Best way to find the right answer on the internet is to give a wrong one 😂

Jonathan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119245721#Comment_119245721

Anyone know the price of ECTS credits these days? Maybe the 14c/kWh is cheap for them. 😂

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119245561#Comment_119245561

No, the deemed export is a purely notional figure they calculate based off your theoretical max generation. They might decide you have a deemed export of 1000kWh but in fact you aren't actually exporting anything because you divert it all to water and an EV but you will still get paid for the 1000kWh.... that is, until you get a smart meter at which point you will only get paid for what you actually export since it will be measured by the smart meter.

What's the max people are expecting per year from FIT? €300?

The max for a domestic single phase is 6kWp so that's a deemed export of 1784kWh... how much you get for that is up to each provider but <€250.

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119245398#Comment_119245398

They tried to change my D/N meter last year for a smart meter, I refused on the advice of Bord Gas who were my supplier at the time, they informed me i could not remain on D/n tarriff on smart meter.ESBN insisted on changing my 1995 d/n meter for one dated 2001 as they were convinced my meter was running backwards(it was'nt).Looks like I wont get any Fit until I get smart meter😮

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119245815#Comment_119245815

Interesting, good to know they have tried switching some people, I wonder was it triggered by the solar install, was the 1995 one an analogue one.

unkel

Free €250 for not giving anything. I welcome this 😂

It also means with one year of FIT, my 20kWh power wall has cost me not a cent

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119245398#Comment_119245398

I've got a modern day night digital meter, installed in 2017. I'm on a regular tariff though. They sent me a letter about upgrading it to a smart meter a few months ago.

KCross

I'm on a regular tariff though

that’s the key there. They aren’t switching people on day/night tariffs but since you are on a 24hr tariff you were scheduled in.

Citizen Six

So do I bother switching to day/night in that case?

I don't use much energy at night, so never really saw the benefit. But possibly wondering about charging a future battery system at night, during winter, when PV isn't great.

Bobeagleburger

D/N meters are still a better option than moving to a rip off smart meter plan and getting paid peanuts for a FIT, while paying ridiculous unit prices.

The Pinergy one was something like 13.5c FIT (sounds good) but with a 39c unit price (LOL)! One for three. Great deal 😂

curioustony

The idea of always load shifting heavily from a night rate / off-peak to the expensive day/peak rate is very promising. I ran that scenario (using my own data from last year), and assumed that Electric Ireland would be competitive with Airtricity and Pinergy w.r.t. FIT. For fun I also added a second battery module. I got this result:

The thing that worries me is the tax liability for the total FIT. I understand that this is tax exempt for the 1st €200. Anybody know how this is treated after that? Will it be collected at source by the supplier? I am expected to make a tax return every January and declare an additional income source?

Looking at this the €200 seems a bit low if you (as a country) are trying to shift load from peak to off-peak.

Bobeagleburger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247078#Comment_119247078

If tax is required to be paid on over €200 earnest then I assume a tax return will be required. Tax owed will then be whatever your top rate is.

I haven't seen this all set in stone though?

Citizen Six

There's simple enough ways of doing tax returns for stuff like that, right?

I'm self employed myself, and have an accountant to all my returns, so it'd be simple enough to just add that in. But obviously not everyone pays an accountant when it's something small like 300 hundred a year or thereabouts.

Bobeagleburger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119249106#Comment_119249106

It's simple tbf. You just have to remember to do it. You may even be able to do it online now anyway.

curioustony

Fair enough, just an unexpected pita.

From January 2022, a tax exemption will apply to income up to €200 per annum received by domestic micro-generators from their suppliers by way of the CEG. This will mean that for the vast majority of domestic renewables self-consumers, who will typically have an installation of below 6kW, there will be no need to declare their income from the CEG.

From https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/b1fbe-micro-generation/

I've been looking for a drop dead date for suppliers to publish their FIT. The only thing I could find was the non binding supplier guidance that talks about the end of August for the first payment, https://www.cru.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/CRU202207-CRU-Supplier-Guidance-on-Interim-Clean-Export-Guarantee-.pdf.

The really frustrating thing is that for the last 4.5 months anybody with a solar panel has had to switch supplier on blind faith. I switched in March!

Bobeagleburger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119249446#Comment_119249446

FIT is pittance. Much better getting a day night meter, and organising electric usage better.

I think the whole FIT thing has been sold by some rip off installers as a great way to make money.

It's much better concentrating on buying as little units as possible from the grid, or as cheap as possible when purchase is required.

No point picking a great FIT price, but then paying triple the rate for a unit (cough cough Pinergy!).

the_amazing_raisin

Well if more suppliers go the way of Airtricity, paying out a reasonable rate to seemingly all customers with solar regardless of their plan, then that's a pretty good setup

True you'll never make money off the FIT, but combined with a decent level of self consumption and shifting most of your import over to the night rate, it'll certainly take a big chunk out of the remaining bills

buzz11

Eamon Ryan said on the news on Friday that FIT was "here now" and suppliers would be 'online' this week or next week

Link below, its mentioned in the last 90sec of the piece

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22113098/