PV Feed In Tariff

the_amazing_raisin

Eamon, like all politicians, says lots of things, very occasionally he says something true....

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119249859#Comment_119249859

For sure. If I get 14c or more for what I don't use (offset against our current tariff) and I have to pay tax IF that gets over something like €200 quid a year - that's a win in my book. It all helps pay back the cost we've spent!

I personally am getting solar 1) because climate change scares the crap out of me and I feel it's something tangible I can do. 2) I want to 'insulate' our family from large energy bills and 3 ) far-down-the list is for the State to pay me a decent subsidy (which I am delighted to take to pay off the loan on the solar. But I would be getting solar without it. Yes, the State should be doing more to get huge amounts of renewables in (assuming the grid can take it) but I am ok to spend our own money at this point and not wait for them to step in).

bullit_dodger

Got this just now..... (Might be of interest to people)

If the smart meter means giving up my D/N meter which saves me WAAAAY more than the paultry sum I export....."hard pass" on that one. (For me anyway) Maybe when I add the 2.5Kwp on the shed I might consider it if I'm exporting a chunk, but hard to leave the D/N meter for the benefits it gives.

Dear Customer,  

At SSE Airtricity we believe in working with our customers to make greener choices in your day-to-day energy use. We know that the small changes we all make can make a big difference to achieving a cleaner, greener Ireland.  

Our records show that you have renewable microgeneration installed at your property. As you may be aware, the Government has introduced the right for you to export excess generation to the energy grid and to be paid for this.  

What is microgeneration?

Microgeneration refers to small-scale generation of electricity from renewable technologies, such as solar PV, wind power and combined heat and power (CHP). This type of generation allows you to produce your own electricity on site, as an alternative or supplement to electricity from the grid.  

As well as meeting some, or all, of your property’s electricity demand, as of early 2022 microgeneration took a step forward with the introduction of the Clean Export Guarantee (CEG). The CEG is a mechanism which provides payment to you for the surplus electricity which you export to the electricity network grid, at a rate for each unit exported (referred to as a CEG tariff) which is reflective of the market value.  For more information, please visit our website sseairtricity.com  

By reducing your offtake and increasing the volume of renewable energy supplied to the grid, you can actively contribute to a greener, cleaner Ireland. You’ll reduce your own energy bills and make microgeneration a win-win for customers and the environment.  

What happens next?       

Our records show that you’re eligible for a smart meter exchange from ESB Networks under their current rollout plans. The installation of a smart meter is required to avail of the microgeneration export payment.  

ESB Networks are working their way through eligible customers and will exchange your meter within four months. Once your smart meter is installed, it’ll start recording your export data. For more information on the roll-out of smart meters, please visit the Smart Meter Upgrade section at esbnetworks.ie. 

If you don’t wish to accept a smart meter exchange you will not be eligible for the microgeneration export payment. This includes if you have refused a smart meter installation previously.  

When do I receive my payment? 

Once your smart meter is installed, you’ll become eligible and be paid a measured Clean Export Guarantee for your export. For more information, please visit our website sseairtricity.com   

Update to our General Terms and Conditions  

We have updated our General Terms and Conditions which are now available on our website. 

Thank you for being with SSE Airtricity.  

Kind regards,  

 Customer Service Team   

SSE Airtricity  

KCross

I'd say that communication is incorrect or at least misleading.

They don't acknowledge the existence of the "Deemed export" which, AFAIK, they are obliged to support until such time as you get a smart meter.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263143#Comment_119263143

Sorry man. Yeah, I knew that....along with the formula which gives an estimate based of the Kwp that you filed via your NC6. For me that would be "free money" as since Feb last when this came into effect I've exported (maybe 20Kwhr) ..... that's all.

Still - hard pass on that smart meter until a more competitive smart tariff comes into play. Maybe these "CEG tariff" will be ok. we'll see.

Gerry

it seems inaccurate for the non smart meter scenario. I'm sure they will resolve, they have to. But besides that I'm happy with their messaging . 14c is a bit more than I'd expected

DrPhilG

That's what I got from them last week, they confirmed the deemed payment, and that it would be backdated to February.

As with others, today I got an email saying no smart meter, no payment.

con747

Should be interesting when they try give me a smart meter because I live in a total black spot for any type of mobile signal even 2g.

DrPhilG

They're now claiming that I need to discuss my deemed export with ESB.

Which is a bit of a change from "customers will be paid a deemed export".

DrPhilG

This is a joke. They don't seem to have a clue.

Follow the replies on this:

https://twitter.com/DrPhil2405/status/1539896203768479746?t=BYM5jHeIWu0gusmYrLWCUA&s=19

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263124#Comment_119263124

Done quick back of the envelope maths on it for me and it's pretty much the same for us to have a smart meter or night rate. But I've low usage (house 2700kwh and EV ~2000kwh). @bullit_dodger you mentioned before you're a heavy usage / not typical profile. But night rate (which I don't have) seems to be good for higher usage houses that can load shift. Unless people could also export a lot and could get a decent FIT (when we know the limits / rates on that)??

For us, night rate only save us €125 quid a year (after I add in extra cost for higher standing rate of €140+ re @curioustony's screenshot above and I'm just using as a rough guide for my maths. And I've included a % usage at the peak rate. Looks like a d/n meter is roughly 12.5 at night and smart meter is roughly 17.5c night). But peak is ~33c which ramps up costs for many houses at dinner time.

A FIT looks to give us €125 quid a year. Exact same as night rate. I expect to only get about €125 from the 14c FIT (I'm assuming I've only 900kwhs we'll export based on other Boardsie data in the excel doc for similar system) as we'll have a 4kw system only. Solar arrives next week.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263710#Comment_119263710

The guy who replied about an hour ago called Andy has said it right and acknowledges that you get deemed export until you get the smart meter.

refuse the meter and you are on your own

Although not entirely sure about this statement…

“If you are eligible for smart meter you will need to wait for it to be installed… to get paid”

the trouble with some of the media responses is, you sometimes get someone who hasn’t a clue so you have to take any response with a grain of salt! 😀

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263889#Comment_119263889

I wonder what way that will leave the people on day night meters..

They can't just yank out the old meter and just put you on a 24hr tariff?

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263808#Comment_119263808

It's.....complicated. :-)

I'm a heavy user, and as a result even though I have 5.3Kwp and soon increasing that via a self-install to ~8.0Kwp, in effect I actually export very little as I use pretty much everything I generate. If I had a smart meter which actually measures the fact that I've exported 20Kwhr or so in the last 2-3 months would yield me what..... 20 x €0.14 = €2.80 for the last 3 months.

Forgetting the "solar energy" stored in the battery for the moment, and JUST looking at the battery usage charging at night rate D/N - here's the "savings" over the last 6 months.

June isn't quite over yet, but the D/N generated about ~€30 or so over the past 3 months. So, for me .... moving away to a smart meter is disadvantageous. Day/night is the way to go. But it very much depends on a lot of factors, the unit rate, the standing charges, how much you'll export etc etc etc.

They make it bloody hard to compare. Wish the regulator would do something about that nonsense. :-(

Alkers

14c FIT would mean my SAAS array paying for itself + 50% even if I exported everything I generate and don't use anything myself.

Citizen Six

A smart meter would still give you day/night readings. Maybe they'd switch the meter but keep you on the tariff?

curioustony

I found some Day/Night rates for EI. I used the 30% discount rates, and added that to the earlier comparison. I left in the 14c for FIT (though I expect you will only get this until you refuse the smart meter -- and assuming EI is competitive with those who have announced).

This is my usage data (from last year) without load shifting, so it could be even better.

Makes me a little sad that I did not know this before getting the smart meter... The €150 evens it up for this year

The decider does seem to be the level of self consumption, so in my case, with load shifting, there is not that much in it.

I get the impression that the industry wants folk off the D/N meters.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119264869#Comment_119264869

It can supply 30 minute intervals of data use, but day/night tariffs aren't supported by smart meters only day/night meters.

You can have time of use on smart meters but they aren't the same.

DrPhilG

ESB contacted me via twitter after I tagged them in a reply to SSE.

Confirmed what we knew, that any money to be paid as part of any feed in rate is between me and the supplier. Nothing to do with ESB.

Awaiting next reply from SSE.

Citizen Six

That sounds like the utility providers are just being difficult for the sake of it. Which is a reasonable expectation.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119264759#Comment_119264759

do you have figures for that?

Looking at the Boards spreadsheet with my orientation I reckoned if I exported everything I'd be just short of paying for the SaaS - even with a south facing array 150% of the SaaS cost seems optimistic. But, even if it covered the lot once you go over €200 FIT there are apparently tax implications.

DrPhilG

And here it is. SSE now reneging on the deemed export. Only available for those not eligible for a smart meter which is who?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119265099#Comment_119265099

I don't understand that. The smart meter doesn't care about tariffs surely, those tariffs are applied by the computers at the utility company's HQ. Smart meter only measures use during 30 minute intervals as you say. Should be no problem to in summer calculate the total kWh use of the 18 intervals of 30 minutes between 12PM and 9AM and for the computer to apply the night rate.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119265611#Comment_119265611

Sure - in 2021 we produced 2,665.9 kWh. I don't know what our self consumption is but even allowing 14c per unit gives €373.23. Fees to the SAAS provider for that period were 12 * 19.99 = €239.88

2022 YTD we have produced 1,437.7 kWh or €201 and have paid 6 * 19.99 = €119.94

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119265677#Comment_119265677

that must be more or less due South facing yes? & I assume that's 2.4kW array?

Alkers

We are due South, 7 x 350W panels so 2.45kW

bullit_dodger

Yeah, 100% unkel.

Someone just needs to do the aggregation on the back end to slot the 30 min time slices into the correct buckets. This is an easy thing for a developer. Easy. For some reason though, all the suppliers seem reluctant to do this. Rather than come up with conspiracy theories that they are only doing this as an opportunity to gouge customers, I'm thinking there must be some logical reason that they have - but we don't know it.

Perhaps D/N goes against the ethos of the smart meter where they want to have a peak rate at breakfast. Right now (summertime) D/N goes until 9am, which ideally, they might want to have a "peak" rate in there for Breakfast time. Dunno. Might be once you have a smart meter and are on a D/N tarrif that it's harder to swap the contract down the road? or they don't want 100,000's of people swaping when they make changes....

I'm speculating as it's odd that all the suppliers have been uniform on this point. I'd expected at least ONE of them to have D/N, but no.....so I'd say there is some reason

DrPhilG

Lol, now SSE are saying I will receive deemed export.

It's like there are 3 people responding to the tweets but they're not communicating with each other.

SD_DRACULA

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119265746#Comment_119265746

Apparently it's not up to the suppliers at all but ESBN are refusing to allow D/N tariffs on smart meters.

The same ESBN which installed my smart meter and then threw it away when I swapped to D/N

So the stupidity of ESBN defies all logic if you ask me.

ECO_Mental

For me with a 6.1 kWp system I only used about 40% of my production so far (system up and running 7 months but only 3-4 months detailed data) this whole FIT rate of 14c certainly throws the cat amongst the pigeons if its true (eg they dont slap a massive day rate or peak rate on like pinergy) but it might actually simplify things for me anyway....

I am with Electric Ireland and wont be moving from them as my missus works for ESB... so at least I don't have to compare suppliers. Due to me only using 40% of my PV production I decided to get an EV (delivered in the next week or two🤞)to try and soak up some of the excess but also save money as €100+ petrol bills are killing me.

I am on a day/night meter (surprised they didn't install a smart meter as its new build and only got a connection last September..) anyway I worked out with my predicted increase in consumption and if I went on to a smart plan and use the full boost rate every night to charge the car I will save around €383

Now I estimate I will produce around 6500 kWh on my system for the year but lets say 6000 kWh to be prudent if I export 60% of that, then its 3600 kWh x €0.14 = €504 in FIT payment They are saying that you might be taxed for anything over €200 so I am presuming at the higher rate.. (€300 x 50% tax = €150) So after Tax FIT payment will be €350

So switching to a smart meter could potentially save me 383+350 = €733

But it would also make the management of the whole things easier as you can just let the PV system work away and export what you export but then only charge the car at night. I have a Zappi and was planning to use this to soak up excess and although this sounds great it requires management and can cut in and out (and you have to be at home) so it might be better to just schedule a charge at night better for the car battery as well.

This is all assuming that EI have a FIT of 14c and these are very high level calcs but for me I think the smart meter and FIT is deffo worth it (eg big enough PV system and an EV)