PV Feed In Tariff

Northumberland

There was a full page article in the Sunday Times Money Section (Irish edition) today with the above title - by Eithne Dunne. It talks about the options being considered by the Department of the Environment, 5c per kWh along with the grant, or perhaps 10c per kWh 'and lose the grant'. I think that is similar to what has already been said on this forum. What is new to me at least in today's article is the statement that "the scheme will limit the proportion of electricity you can sell to 30 per cent of power generated. With the rest, it's a case of use it or lose it". If this is indeed correct it will raise the question of how - whoever it is that pays the micro-generator - will know how much power is generated by the solar array - the new smart meters will only measure imports and exports from the grid will they not?

irishchris

Northumberland wrote: »

There was a full page article in the Sunday Times Money Section (Irish edition) today with the above title - by Eithne Dunne. It talks about the options being considered by the Department of the Environment, 5c per kWh along with the grant, or perhaps 10c per kWh 'and lose the grant'. I think that is similar to what has already been said on this forum. What is new to me at least in today's article is the statement that "the scheme will limit the proportion of electricity you can sell to 30 per cent of power generated. With the rest, it's a case of use it or lose it". If this is indeed correct it will raise the question of how - whoever it is that pays the micro-generator - will know how much power is generated by the solar array - the new smart meters will only measure imports and exports from the grid will they not?

Tried to find digital version of this online but no joy

graememk

Northumberland wrote: »

There was a full page article in the Sunday Times Money Section (Irish edition) today with the above title - by Eithne Dunne. It talks about the options being considered by the Department of the Environment, 5c per kWh along with the grant, or perhaps 10c per kWh 'and lose the grant'. I think that is similar to what has already been said on this forum. What is new to me at least in today's article is the statement that "the scheme will limit the proportion of electricity you can sell to 30 per cent of power generated. With the rest, it's a case of use it or lose it". If this is indeed correct it will raise the question of how - whoever it is that pays the micro-generator - will know how much power is generated by the solar array - the new smart meters will only measure imports and exports from the grid will they not?

Yep, Smart meter can only measure what goes in and what comes out.

This has been talked about a few times, in the proposal, of the consultation (what that article has to be based on, because, there is no new information out there).

It is proposed that there is 2 tariffs, CEG(Clean export guarantee) and CEP(Clean export premium)
The CEG to be available to everyone, based on the wholesale rate of electricity, the supplies have to give the minimum, but can offer more.

The CEP- that is a subsidised rate, with caps (most likely an arbitary 30% of predicted solar generation, The PV-GIS is pretty accurate on average), BER rating requirements, etc and only for installs after the 30th of june 2021


Consult doc: https://www.gov.ie/en/consultation/0ada2-public-consultation-on-a-micro-generation-support-scheme-mss-in-ireland/

TLDR, first pdf, skip to pg 33 for the questions asked in the consult.

reklamos

Northumberland wrote: »

There was a full page article in the Sunday Times Money Section (Irish edition) today with the above title - by Eithne Dunne. It talks about the options being considered by the Department of the Environment, 5c per kWh along with the grant, or perhaps 10c per kWh 'and lose the grant'. I think that is similar to what has already been said on this forum. What is new to me at least in today's article is the statement that "the scheme will limit the proportion of electricity you can sell to 30 per cent of power generated. With the rest, it's a case of use it or lose it". If this is indeed correct it will raise the question of how - whoever it is that pays the micro-generator - will know how much power is generated by the solar array - the new smart meters will only measure imports and exports from the grid will they not?

I think 30% would be based on the max kW that PV can produce. From what I've seen in other countries, before anyone can export they need to submit a request and provide details about the setup. This is required because the grid needs to check if it can take the max load provided. I'd say this should not be an issue ROI at the moment as there are still few PV, most installations are single phase and we do not have space on the roofs to put massive arrays.

irishchris

reklamos wrote: »

I think 30% would be based on the max kW that PV can produce. From what I've seen in other countries, before anyone can export they need to submit a request and provide details about the setup. This is required because the grid needs to check if it can take the max load provided. I'd say this should not be an issue ROI at the moment as there are still few PV, most installations are single phase and we do not have space on the roofs to put massive arrays.

Is this not already done before installing with the nc6 form?

reklamos

irishchris wrote: »

Is this not already done before installing with the nc6 form?

It is, but I would assume that only people who are applying for the grant are filling it.

slave1

..and plenty of folk put in more panels/strings/expansion afterwards

ec_pc

I moved from smart meter to day/night meter in January and was told we obviously need to move back to a smart meter in order to benefit from the FIT. I am just off the phone with ESB Networks and all smart meter deployments are on hold since Christmas due to covid.

Regardless of Covid, day/night meters were only scheduled to be moved to Smart Meters in 2022 in conjunction with when your area is migrating to smart meters.

In our case the entire area is on smart meters for those on 24 hour meters and there is no dates for them revisiting. I have been added to a list because I am exporting to the grid but I just need to check back after Covid restrictions are lifted.

niallers1

ec_pc wrote: »

I am just off the phone with ESB Networks and all smart meter deployments are on hold since Christmas due to covid.

They told me that yesterday(about delay due to covid) by email and I got a call from an engineer this afternoon telling me they were doing a job nearby and can do mine.

It's fitted now.

idc

Has anyone looked at energia feed in plan?

https://www.energia.ie/plans-and-switching-info/grid

Seems you must have their battery to avail of feed in.

graememk

idc wrote: »

Has anyone looked at energia feed in plan?

https://www.energia.ie/plans-and-switching-info/grid

Seems you must have their battery to avail of feed in.

Yeah, they are doing it on their own, but the prices they are charging is ridiculous

idc

graememk wrote: »

Yeah, they are doing it on their own, but the prices they are charging is ridiculous

Yeah their prices are crazy. But someone on Irish PV Facebook group told me they are now offering feedin without there battery.

Patmwgs

Has Anyone here got a smart meter installed and is on the day night tariff? It looks like the esb has to make changes to the meter that cannot be reversed. I have an elster 1140 meter that about 14 years old that they will probably change to the newer one. Is energia about the best price for night rate, as i have just purchased our first ev.

niallers1

Patmwgs wrote: »

Has Anyone here got a smart meter installed and is on the day night tariff? It looks like the esb has to make changes to the meter that cannot be reversed. I have an elster 1140 meter that about 14 years old that they will probably change to the newer one. Is energia about the best price for night rate, as i have just purchased our first ev.

For night rate on smart meter check iberderola. I think their rate is about 9 cent

slave1

Patmwgs wrote: »

Is energia about the best price for night rate, as i have just purchased our first ev.

At the minute this appears to be the best night rate pricing on the market, Energia 5.23c

https://www.energia.ie/plans-and-switching-info/ev

niallers1

slave1 wrote: »

At the minute this appears to be the best night rate pricing on the market, Energia 5.23c

https://www.energia.ie/plans-and-switching-info/ev

Does this mean you need to have a day/night meter instead of the smart meter. Why would smart meter night rates be so much more expensive.

Patmwgs

slave1 wrote: »

At the minute this appears to be the best night rate pricing on the market, Energia 5.23c

https://www.energia.ie/plans-and-switching-info/ev

It looks like the only option they are offering is for a day night meter. Surely a smart meter is capable, i wonder why not?

Northumberland

niallers1 wrote: »

For night rate on smart meter check iberderola. I think their rate is about 9 cent

I just switched to Energia, and their night rate on their 'EV Tarriff' is 5.4 cents including VAT, it seems to have actually gone up recently.

But I need to check that posting earlier today or yesterday about Energia only paying the FIT if you have Energia installed batteries - if that is the case I will dump them!

idc

Northumberland wrote: »

But I need to check that posting earlier today or yesterday about Energia only paying the FIT if you have Energia installed batteries - if that is the case I will dump them!

Energia appear to pay a Feed in tariff already if you have their battery system installed. Thats just from reading the website!


I'm still in contract to another company and not planning to switch till current contract completes otherwise i'd ask about that FIT and if there are options to get that without their battery (as thats what someone on facebook claimed is possible)

Ballylad

Energia cheapest was day rate 15.5, night rate 7.46 including vat .
Feed in tariff plan
0.074c inc vat export.
16.86 day
8.04 night inc vat.
Ev plan:
18.18 day 5.23night inc vat
Checked these rates last week
You need to be careful moving to that FIT plan, if you are using a lot of day rate, there are cheaper plans outlined above, your getting a FIT but are paying dearer unit rates, they give on one hand but take back on dearer unit rates!, nearly giving it away for free, suppose depends on your annual consumption.

idc wrote: »

Energia appear to pay a Feed in tariff already if you have their battery system installed. Thats just from reading the website!


I'm still in contract to another company and not planning to switch till current contract completes otherwise i'd ask about that FIT and if there are options to get that without their battery (as thats what someone on facebook claimed is possible)

alfa_aficionado

Northumberland wrote: »

There was a full page article in the Sunday Times Money Section (Irish edition) today with the above title - by Eithne Dunne. It talks about the options being considered by the Department of the Environment, 5c per kWh along with the grant, or perhaps 10c per kWh 'and lose the grant'. I think that is similar to what has already been said on this forum. What is new to me at least in today's article is the statement that "the scheme will limit the proportion of electricity you can sell to 30 per cent of power generated. With the rest, it's a case of use it or lose it". If this is indeed correct it will raise the question of how - whoever it is that pays the micro-generator - will know how much power is generated by the solar array - the new smart meters will only measure imports and exports from the grid will they not?

Doesn't sound like it's going to be that attractive then, without having a battery storage system (and then if you have a battery surely it's cheaper to just charge it up overnight at the cheap rate?)

idc

Ballylad wrote: »

Energia cheapest was day rate 15.5, night rate 7.46 including vat .
Feed in tariff plan
0.074c inc vat export.
16.86 day
8.04 night inc vat.
Ev plan:
18.18 day 5.23night inc vat
Checked these rates last week
You need to be careful moving to that FIT plan, if you are using a lot of day rate, there are cheaper plans outlined above, your getting a FIT but are paying dearer unit rates, they give on one hand but take back on dearer unit rates!, nearly giving it away for free, suppose depends on your annual consumption.

Does it require you to have their own battery or can you get that plan without it ?

Ballylad

You can get it without their battery

idc wrote: »

Does it require you to have their own battery or can you get that plan without it ?

Patmwgs

So is this the way it works? If you get a day night meter you wont get the fits, if you get a smart meter you wont get day night tariff yet, but will get fits. Do i wait untill june before i switch to a night tariff, so much for smart meters if they wont implement all the capability for every energy provider. Maybe i have this all wrong.

Northumberland

Ballylad wrote: »

Energia cheapest was day rate 15.5, night rate 7.46 including vat .
Feed in tariff plan
0.074c inc vat export.
16.86 day
8.04 night inc vat.
Ev plan:
18.18 day 5.23night inc vat
Checked these rates last week
You need to be careful moving to that FIT plan, if you are using a lot of day rate, there are cheaper plans outlined above, your getting a FIT but are paying dearer unit rates, they give on one hand but take back on dearer unit rates!, nearly giving it away for free, suppose depends on your annual consumption.

Just got my Welcome Letter from Energia for the EV plan -

Nightsaver night price per kWh 0.0523 inc VAT - Fine - as quoted above, and probably the cheapest of all providers.

BUT - and I did not notice this on the Web application form, if this was there it was not very prominent -

Nightsaver night price per kWh over 2000kWh bi-monthly 0.0982,

So that is how they hope to restrict night useage to people charging cars. Ok for me I suppose, I have a 40kWh Nissan Leaf, so 50 full charges in 60 days, that is less than I have used or will need, so plenty left over for my heat pump, washing machine on timer switch etc. But (and I live in Cavan), if I commuted with my EV to Dublin every day (which some people do), I might exceed that limit.

ec_pc

niallers1 wrote: »

They told me that yesterday(about delay due to covid) by email and I got a call from an engineer this afternoon telling me they were doing a job nearby and can do mine.

It's fitted now.

Can I ask roughly what area you live in? I am in Kildare.

niallers1

Northumberland wrote: »

Just got my Welcome Letter from Energia for the EV plan -

Nightsaver night price per kWh 0.0523 inc VAT - Fine - as quoted above, and probably the cheapest of all providers.

BUT - and I did not notice this on the Web application form, if this was there it was not very prominent -

Nightsaver night price per kWh over 2000kWh bi-monthly 0.0982,

So that is how they hope to restrict night useage to people charging cars. Ok for me I suppose, I have a 40kWh Nissan Leaf, so 50 full charges in 60 days, that is less than I have used or will need, so plenty left over for my heat pump, washing machine on timer switch etc. But (and I live in Cavan), if I commuted with my EV to Dublin every day (which some people do), I might exceed that limit.

Is there an EV plan with smart meter. What's so special about a day/night meter that a smart meter can't do?

slave1

Northumberland wrote: »

Nightsaver night price per kWh over 2000kWh bi-monthly 0.0982,

They have that standard usage on all their dual rate bundles, you just need to keep an eye on it, std A rate diswasher/washing machine is 2.2kW.
Don't forget you will lose around 8% of EV charging via heat/transmission losses so to put say 30kW into your Leaf will require 32.4kW from the house, this will add up too.

unkel

Northumberland wrote: »

Nightsaver night price per kWh 0.0523 inc VAT - Fine - as quoted above, and probably the cheapest of all providers.

Did they up the price or did you not get the full discount? I switched to that plan as soon as it became available a few months ago and I pay 4.78c / kWh incl VAT

BTW that limit of 12MWh/year on night rate is fairly hefty. Say you use 10MWh for that for your car, after losses 9MWh goes into your car, with an average of say 18kWh / 100km that means a yearly mileage of 50k km

If you are a huge mileage driver doing more than that or if you have two EVs, both doing significantly more mileage than the national average, it could be an issue alright

graememk

unkel wrote: »

Did they up the price or did you not get the full discount? I switched to that plan as soon as it became available a few months ago and I pay 4.78c / kWh incl VAT

BTW that limit of 12MWh/year on night rate is fairly hefty. Say you use 10MWh for that for your car, after losses 9MWh goes into your car, with an average of say 18kWh / 100km that means a yearly mileage of 50k km

If you are a huge mileage driver doing more than that or if you have two EVs, both doing significantly more mileage than the national average, it could be an issue alright

They put thier prices up in april, across the board.

KCross

Northumberland wrote: »

BUT - and I did not notice this on the Web application form, if this was there it was not very prominent -

Nightsaver night price per kWh over 2000kWh bi-monthly 0.0982,

Thats standard for them and its on the website in the small print but easy to miss.
However, you only pay that higher rate on the units above the 2000 so it doesnt really equate to much overall.
I go over the 2000 a few months of the year.... when you work it out its tiny money, unless you are far exceeding the limit.

Northumberland

Yes, they increased the price maybe a week or 10 days ago. I saw the 4.78 c rate (inc VAT) as well, and was tempted, but wanted to wait until my current contract expired to avoid the penalty. Then I checked again and saw they had increased the price to 5.23 cents. My present supplier tried to persuade me to stay (but could not offer even close), then tried to persuade me to stay at least until the end of the contract in a weeks time to avoid the penalty. But given that increase from 4.78 to 5.23, I wanted to sign up straight away before they increase it to 7 or 8 cents again!!. Then I get a letter from Energia saying it may be two weeks before they actually switch me anyway. These guys are really playing games.

On night use, take your point, and I am certainly not driving that much!! - But I do have a heat pump for radiators and hot water, and have that nicely tuned to run mainly at night, so that will take a share, and I have been pretty good with timer switches on washing machine, drier, dishwasher etc, so I really do not care much what Energia's Day rate is - I am not counting on using many kWh on that!

slave1

Their prices went up 8.9%

Patmwgs

You have to get the esb to reconfigure day night boost feature on your smart meter in which cannot be reversed.

idc

Patmwgs wrote: »

You have to get the esb to reconfigure day night boost feature on your smart meter in which cannot be reversed.

That doesn't make any sense, surely the whole point of smart meters is they can be configured remotely in any way to support what ever plans your provider is offering. What if i switch to a different provider who doesn't offer the same plan?


Or are the plans going to be the same for every provider just different prices so their only so smart as to what plans ESB decide ?

Patmwgs

Home Electric+ Night Boost
Full Pricing Information
Electricity prices per unit (cent per kWh) ex. VAT inc. VAT
Standard Day unit price 19.52 c/kWh 22.16 c/kWh
Effective Day unit price with 5.5% direct debit and online billing discount 1 18.45 c/kWh 20.94 c/kWh
Standard Night unit price 10.05 c/kWh 11.41 c/kWh
Effective Night unit price with 5.5% direct debit and online billing discount 1 9.50 c/kWh 10.78 c/kWh
Standard Night Boost unit price 3 5.43 c/kWh 6.16 c/kWh
Effective Night Boost unit price with 5.5% direct debit and online billing discount 1 5.13 c/kWh 5.82 c/kWh
Electricity standing charges per year ex. VAT inc. VAT
Standing charge 24 hour urban per year €207.17 €235.14
Low usage standing charge urban per year 2 €234.91 €266.63
Standing charge 24 hour rural per year €260.65 €295.83
Low usage standing charge rural per year 2 €284.23 €322.60
Electricity PSO levy per year ex. VAT inc. VAT
Public Service Obligation levy per year €78.24 €88.80
€150 welcome bonus is available when you sign up with Electric Ireland directly, online or over the phone.

5.5% discount is applied to electricity unit prices by combining 5% direct debit & 0.5% online billing discounts.

Prices valid as of 1st January 2021 and subject to change. Early termination fee of €50 per single fuel applies if you cancel during your 12-month contract.

If you are selecting a smart price plan for the first time, your meter will be reconfigured so that your supplier will receive a minimum of three meter reads (day/night/peak). This change cannot be reversed. The frequency of these reads will depend on the smart price plan that you have selected and/or any consent you may have given.
If the signal from your meter is not sufficient to support the transfer of half-hourly data, we will contact you to discuss other suitable products.
If you are selecting a smart price plan for the first time, the full range of Smart Services may not be available until up to 12 months after the date at which full half hourly consent was given.

1. We quote the unit rate inclusive of your discounts for information purposes only, however the unit rate displayed on your bill will be the unit rate before discounts. You will see your discount total as one line item at the end of your bill.

2. This alternative standing charge only applies if your average daily usage is less than 2 units per billing period.

3. Energy kWh unit rates will be charged under the following three time periods:
Day kWh rate is applicable to usage between 08:00 - 23:00 everyday
Night kWh rate is applicable to usage between 23:00 - 08:00 everyday (excluding Night Boost times)
Night Boost kWh rate is applicable to usage between 02:00 - 04:00 everyday

This is from electric ireland

Patmwgs

I am not sure if you can get the feed in tariff with the purpose built day night meter or even with the smart meter on day night rate.

idc

Patmwgs wrote: »

If you are selecting a smart price plan for the first time, your meter will be reconfigured so that your supplier will receive a minimum of three meter reads (day/night/peak). This change cannot be reversed. The frequency of these reads will depend on the smart price plan that you have selected and/or any consent you may have given.

Ok thats fair enough so your supplier should get those 3 readings as a minimum. And a supplier could decide to have a plan where peak is part of night - thus effectively recreating current day/night rates.
Additionally assuming you give supplier consent to get readings every 30 minutes they could create a super complex plan.

Patmwgs wrote: »

If you are selecting a smart price plan for the first time, the full range of Smart Services may not be available until up to 12 months after the date at which full half hourly consent was given.

I don't get this. Anyone know why would it would take 12 months to get a smart plan???

Mickeroo

Northumberland wrote: »

Just got my Welcome Letter from Energia for the EV plan -

Nightsaver night price per kWh 0.0523 inc VAT - Fine - as quoted above, and probably the cheapest of all providers.

BUT - and I did not notice this on the Web application form, if this was there it was not very prominent -

Nightsaver night price per kWh over 2000kWh bi-monthly 0.0982,

So that is how they hope to restrict night useage to people charging cars. Ok for me I suppose, I have a 40kWh Nissan Leaf, so 50 full charges in 60 days, that is less than I have used or will need, so plenty left over for my heat pump, washing machine on timer switch etc. But (and I live in Cavan), if I commuted with my EV to Dublin every day (which some people do), I might exceed that limit.

How long did the welcome letter take? Been switched over a couple of weeks now but no sign of ours yet.

Northumberland

The Welcome Letter came in the post just a couple of days after I signed up online, must have been sent out by Energia on the same day I did the online application or the day after. But the Welcome letter says very little, no account number or anything, but it does confirm the rates as per the website.

Patmwgs

Northumberland wrote: »

The Welcome Letter came in the post just a couple of days after I signed up online, must have been sent out by Energia on the same day I did the online application or the day after. But the Welcome letter says very little, no account number or anything, but it does confirm the rates as per the website.

Do you have solar pv with your day and night rate meter.?

Northumberland

Oh yes, nearly 6kWp. In spite of arguments elsewhere in renewable engergies forum some time ago, that charging batteries on night rate for use in the day is not very economical (because of battery degradation) that is what I am doing, so I am actually using very little day rate at all. I have 4 pylontech 2kWh (useable) batteries, - the challenge is to guess how much sun there will be the next day the night before and only charge the batteries up enough so there is space left for the excess power generated during the day to fully charge the batteries. The website solcast is a wonderful help for this - but I just do it manually - clever guys reporting on this forum have made an automated link between the Solcast forecast and their hybrid inverter so this happens automatically.

Patmwgs

6kw is a good size array. The eddi would take out all the guess work but thats more expense.
I want to switch to the night rate but dont want to lose the feed in tariff payment. Today should see a good part of your 6kw

ec_pc

Northumberland wrote: »

The Welcome Letter came in the post just a couple of days after I signed up online, must have been sent out by Energia on the same day I did the online application or the day after. But the Welcome letter says very little, no account number or anything, but it does confirm the rates as per the website.

From recent experience, Energia's account management is poor. Lovely people in their call centre, but I joined them in January on the night/day rate and I was set up on their standard tarrfif of approx 19c a unit. Still not sorted and first bill came in the other day which was all wrong.

Keep a close eye on them is my advice. Swapping over from Electric Ireland was an absolute nightmare with incorrect readings etc etc.

harderthanf

I am getting my ground array installed in the next 2 weeks. I have the old (Soviet era!!) meter currently in. Until the FIT comes in I will most likely be exporting a lot more than I am using (in the summer anyway). Someone once told me that the old meters will actually start spinning backwards - does anyone know if this is correct or will I effectively be giving the ESB free energy untiil FIT/smart meters are in place?

slave1

There's no way to tell until after your PV install, but if it does keep it as you are effectively getting net metering!

Northumberland

From my experience with a set up installed outside of Ireland, I think that your meter will spin backwards. You just need to watch it and adjust the export settings on your inverter so that it does not spin back so much that you get a negative bill, at the end of the month, that might raise eyebrows somewhere!

If you search online for a while you will find that meters spinning backwards was very common in England some years ago, and more recently I think in Australia, of course the power companies took a dim view of this.

Patmwgs

Does anyone know if you have a day night meter installed, will you get charged if you get a smart meter installed? I want to get a day night one untill smart meter finally gets fitted

ec_pc

Patmwgs wrote: »

Does anyone know if you have a day night meter installed, will you get charged if you get a smart meter installed? I want to get a day night one untill smart meter finally gets fitted

No charge, it should be a free replacement.

jkforde

any leak about the likely MSS feed-in rate? and if the grant was already paid, would that really exclude that system from feed-in for X amount of time?