PV Feed In Tariff

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119996950#Comment_119996950

You’re likely only fully charging the battery at night for 4.5 months. So it’s really the 4 poor months, plus part of Oct (which is not terrible). So let’s say 4.5months x 30 days = 135 days will be a full charge overnight. You'll part charge at other times of course if weather is due to be muck. You’ve up to 20% losses (in and out of battery) so it’s night rate X 20%. So 13.2C per unit night rate.

During the day it’s saving you 20C a unit. 38C day rate less FIT 18C if you sent it to the grid. But batteries all have a limit of how much they can output. So if you suck more than it can output, it pulls from the grid.

I’m not knocking batteries. Just don’t make sense for me personally to buy one (locked into a Huawei only battery), but if you have one use the crap out of it and get the benefit. 

paulbok

Don't forget to factor in tax on FIT over €200.

I was close to turning off my Eddi and send all surplus to the grid, but

A) I'm on deemed export so makes no difference

B) but if I was on metered export, the excess put into the Eddi would have been in the over the 200 band (looks like I'll have exported €235 of excess, based on EI's 14c a unit.) The 14c a unit on what went into the Eddi was marginally worth more than the savings on oil, but taxing that down to 7c and it was a no brainer. The new rate of 21c , 10c after tax is still less than the value of the oil saved (1l oil @ €1.35 a litre>10.5kWh @€0.105)

Bobeagleburger

Because of batteries, only 15% of my daily usage is day units in the winter months , and less during the summer. Batteries usually get me through the night March - September, and obviously fill in the gaps during the day. Only for them!

Yes, a DIY install will save substantially more, and it's a route people should definitely explore, especially if they've had an expensive install.

It's not the batteries in quotes that that were the main problem, it was installers gouging people the last 12 months for the overall install.

FIT will drop in the future, I've no doubts about that. What's the insentive for supplier's to keep paying it? They swallow it up with crazy rates anyway.

One of the best things about the PV setup is the batteries imo.

Number 1 rule, don't overpay on install! However, from looking at the quotes thread recently maybe the ship has sailed on decent install prices.

redmagic68

On a day night meter with deemed export batteries make a lot of sense. On top of that as BullitDodger said there’s the benefit to the grid. I have 9.6kwh dyness batteries that cost me 2.4k based on the with and without quotes so I’m biased.

There is also a sense of security and independence about it too. We heard about brown outs or almost, in another thread this week. The change over switch or eps allows you security there too, we live in the country and get 2-3 power outages a year, usually only 3-6 hours but a pain in the hoop in and all electric house.

Diy batteries are the way to go for sure but they require you to have the available space to set them up in etc. Personally I’ve just started this journey so lacked the confidence to build them and didn’t have the space for them in the house.

I do however have a detached garage which faces south and when funds allow I’ll stick as much on it as I can hopefully 4kwp plus and an inverter with a homemade battery as big as I can afford but hopefully at least 30kwh. That’ll give us 32kwh useable electricity and would go along way to ending any day time units for us year round, with the exception of the current weather which has my heat pump slaughtering units at an embarrassing rate.

Batteries probably aren’t suitable for low use houses and that’s for everyone to decide but if the unit rates keep going up as they are I can’t see how high usage houses could keep going without them.

4goneConclusion

I recently got solar panels installed. The fitter has told me that the NC6 form has been sent to ESBN now but I'm wondering how do i confirm the date it's received? Do I contact ESBN or my supplier?

I just want to confirm it's all sorted now. I have a day/night meter (MCC02) so i think getting paid for deemed export over winter would be a pretty good deal.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119998072#Comment_119998072

Contact ESBN by either email or phone and they will tell you. I got a very nice obliging person who took time to find mine on the phone and confirm the details.

simpsimp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119998119#Comment_119998119

Email networkservicesbureau@esb.ie

They're fairly quick to respond

Mickeroo

No export units on latest energia bill even though we got them on the one before.

Wonder are they not bothering because of the government credit? Anyone else have them missing this billing cycle?

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119998824#Comment_119998824

Yup - they are quick to respond. Emailed them with my MPRN number and address (for validation purposes) and came back within like 15 mins.

(I suspected I was on there, but it's nice to actually have a email)

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119999538#Comment_119999538

They got my PV units right but the main tariff wrong, despite the tariff being right on the last bill.

Fingleberries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997346#Comment_119997346

Is it that the first €200 of FIT you don't pay tax on, and everything after that is taxed. Or, that once you cross €200 that everything is taxed?

ELM327

the former

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119999737#Comment_119999737

And note that it wont be taxed automatically. You get full payment and you have to declare it to the revenue yourself.

paulbok

Definitely a need for that €200 to be increased. It was set early in the year before the hikes, and when FIT was expected to be 9-12c a unit.

carrickbawn

I don't understand why the tax scenario was ever introduced . Why are they discouraging people from exporting to the grid. I thought we were in an energy crisis. I use every key myself now once my battery is nearly full. Me cheapest unit rate is 28cents and after tax my fit will be 9 cents. Crazy.

ELM327

If it should be taxed, the expense of putting up the panels should be an allowable expense against the income over the 200 quid mark.

Something like

((total solar PV outlay)*12.5%)*(exported kWh/total kWh used)

as the write off amount to give a percentage attribute for the commercial aspect vs the domestic aspect. If they ever come after me for tax this is the first thing I'll be doing. I'd also first argue that I am still being billed, and a credit on a bill is not income - merely offset expenditure

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000340#Comment_120000340

I'd also first argue that I am still being billed, and a credit on a bill is not income - merely offset expenditure

I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that conversation!

One key sticking point for you though is that its not like you are returning goods and getting a credit. The electricity you are getting paid for is a product you are creating yourself and selling to the provider and they are paying you for it and it just so happens that they add it as a credit on your bill... but not the same thing at all as a typical credit when you return something. It is income.

But I wish you well arguing the case! :)

I'd be surprised if revenue come looking for the tax due. These are tiny sums of money really (bar a few outliers who might have massive arrays).

The govt should increase this €200 to something like €500 and avoid the mess to be honest.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000365#Comment_120000365

If I buy something from you for 500 and you buy something from me at the same time for 250, is 750 spent or 250? From a cash flow perspective only 250 changes hands but if you're calculating GDP - and its an on book transaction in both cases - 750 total was spent.

I see this in the same vein as charging an EV at work, which although notionally BIK should be due, revenue have confirmed they are not requiring BIK to be collected due to the small amounts involved. Similar to coffee at the workplace. With the sums at play here of 200-500 euro, it's less than 2 euro a day and less tax liability incurred than the benefit in kind of charging your car at work. I really can't see this being enforced.

I'm also on the Day Night deemed export for the next while so wont have to worry anyway, I think the formula for a 6kW inverter works out at about 186 quid for the year from memory

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000438#Comment_120000438

I think the formula for a 6kW inverter works out at about 186 quid for the year from memory

6kWp deemed export is 1487kWh so you go over the €200 if you are getting a FiT of about 13.5c or more. With FiT now being 20c+ in most cases its easy enough to go over the €200 but they wont be chasing these few measly Euro's unless people start putting in massive arrays.

I see this in the same vein as charging an EV at work, which although notionally BIK should be due, revenue have confirmed they are not requiring BIK to be collected due to the small amounts involved. Similar to coffee at the workplace.

Indeed. The difference here is that they seem to have put a cap on it. They didn't put any cap on the amount of coffee you can drink at work! I think the lawyers were just trying to make sure there wasn't a loophole somewhere that people would exploit and start making big money from FiT tax free. I dont think they have any interest in chasing the typical household PV system.

ELM327

Yes so the deemed FIT/CEG on my 8.2kWp but 6kW system is 267.66 for the year based on Energia maintaining a 0.18c FIT/CEG rate.

So I'd be liable for tax at the marginal rate on 67.66. If you're taxed as an individual and you share a house with your partner do you each get 200 quid exemption?

ECO_Mental

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000514#Comment_120000514

I have joint account with Electric Ireland myself and my missus name are on bill....I think I will deffo claim €200 tax free for me and €200 tax free for her portion of the bill...result👌😎

paulbok

I can't see it being anything other than one allowance per grid connection. It's not an individual tax exemption.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119999538#Comment_119999538

Mine was the same, messaged them, said they wanted to start but esbn didn't send them the right info on several accounts, but will be on the next bill.

Galego

Got a day night meter installed today, had a 24hr one before. I am with sseai and they haven't paid fit yet but curious now if when they ever do they'll count from the day this day night meter has been installed. Anyone any idea?

jkforde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120001437#Comment_120001437

SSE are fed NC6 data from ESB Networks, so it'll be from whatever date is on your NC6

silver_sky

The tax disregard definitely should be something like 500 euro.

Galego

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120001558#Comment_120001558

Yeap that is my understanding too but SSE website says that 24hr meters don't get fit and since I had one till today's morning therefore not 100% sure with the rationale now.

jkforde

so when will those of us on deemed CEG be tempted to switch to metered 'smart' CEG?

at the moment, I'd be looking at an extra 250 on top of deemed CEG if I was to get metered CEG, but then the smart tariffs are plain criminal but at some point it'll probably be worth it, but when... but happy to wait and see how the market develops

Bobeagleburger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120001586#Comment_120001586

Is your extra €250 after the unit and standing charge is taken into account?

jkforde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120001584#Comment_120001584

what SSE mean is that you won't get metered FIT, you should get deemed FIT based on your NC6 install date, just like those of us with D\N meters