PV Feed In Tariff

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120624983#Comment_120624983

200 seems very "round" you sure that wasnt the gov 200?

buzz11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120625048#Comment_120625048

Yes, it shows on the bill as 'ex-gratia credit' which is same as others on here who got the FIT payment, mind you they still haven't issued the payment despite me contacting them twice but their tardiness is costing them €40 each time because its breaching their customer charter 😉

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627673#Comment_120627673

Do you know what size your inverter was on the initial NC6? has any been sent in since?

I know you were on the previous microgen scheme, I am not sure how that is counted now.. will you be on a deemed fit until the smart meter gets to you? ( I know you have an export meter)

buzz11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627763#Comment_120627763

I was on the trial microgen scheme from 2015 to when it ended in Feb-22 at 9c/kw and I was getting paid based on actual exports but my system was tiny just 1.4kw (5 x 285w panels) I had the system replaced in Nov-21 and now have a 6kw inverter along with NC6

It looks like I'm getting paid on actual exports by energia but EI didn't show any detail on the bill when I was with them.

CiaranIRE

Sorry if this has come up already over the previous 91 pages.....

Has anyone had issues with not being billed correctly for export with EI?

I have a smart meter, installed December 2022. Changed from SSE to EI end of March 2023. I'm on a smart meter plan.

I got credit for 64 units in March/April when it should have been double that.

Got credit for 88 units in April/May when it should have been triple that figure.

Spoke to EI, they said the ESB give them the readings, speak to ESB.

Rang ESB and they said(and confirmed 2 more times!!!!) no one in the ESB can see the meter reading figures, ask for a supervisor in EI.

Supervisor in EI confirms they just get readings from ESB, go back to ESB.

CRU told me to log formal complaints with both parties.

I have photos of the export readings from early March and yesterday(May), which confirms 470 units exported over that time, which matches the figures on my PV portal, which falls in line with the figures I mentioned above.

I mentioned to both parties was it possible I'm on deemed export and not metered export, but they're too busy blaming each other to give me an answer.

Lodged a formal complaint with both, but looking at anything up to 6 months for a resolution if both continue to pass the blame.

Anyone ended up in a similar situation or is there something I'm overlooking?

JayBee66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634883#Comment_120634883

Do you have an ESB Networks account and can see the data that ESB Networks is sending to EI?

https://www.esbnetworks.ie/

CiaranIRE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635299#Comment_120635299

Yep, I have an account, the data is all there, no gaps or anything like others have mentioned.

I can't see any actual meter reading figures, but the graphs show my import and export correctly, as in I can see my export picking up before midday and peaking at 2-2.5kw each day etc.

The downloadable csv shows all active imports/exports too so nothing looks estimated or anything.

curioustony

@CiaranIRE I had something similar with EI when I was leaving them. After chatting with new supplier and ESBN, raised a formal complaint. Sorted in a couple of weeks. Needs to be done before you can bring in the CRU. Seems to be the only thing that works.

Do not agree to go on hold until you have the complaint number. Do not agree to bring transferred to another department.

Never tried getting a formal complaint number by email. Cannot see it being too easy or fast...

CiaranIRE

Thanks @curioustony ,

EI got back onto me today and confirmed I'm on deemed export and the ESB sent them those figures. Not sure why nobody in EI or ESB could confirm this over the phone was I was asking them that very question.

I'll wait and see what my complaint to ESB comes with back.

EI also noticed I was unpaid for 111 units from February too and gave me some credit for that, but the main issue remains unresovled but at least I know what the issue is.

Edit: Rang ESB and told them what EI had said, and ESB told me again to go back to EI that it's an EI issue. 🤦‍♂️

HotSwap

Just passed 100 euro net from FIT this month. Unfortunately this does not include the standing charge which is 33.13 so far.

So in reality I’m up 66.88 so far when you factor that in. Dunno if I’ll get to 100 this month.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639773#Comment_120639773

You'd be paying the standing charge if you hadnt had solar.

irishchris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639773#Comment_120639773

Just passed the 100 euro microgen mark after usage & standing charge for this month today. Granted my standing charge is just over €10 now with the pso refund.

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639885#Comment_120639885

Yeah. But I don’t look at it that way. My goal was to eliminate any spend on electricity on an annual basis. I may fail.

Ketron

Hey folks!

Is there any update on what is happening with folks on D/N meters and deemed export? I read that ESBN will start installing 'smart' meters for those users in November, is this correct?

I want to keep D/N metering just want get reimbursed correctly for what I put in.

Thanks

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120645204#Comment_120645204

The D/N meters will be replaced with smart meters from Autumn this year. Might take a while so it could be years before your is replaced, I think the plan is to have all customers on smart meters by 2025

You can stay on a non smart plan after installation, but one unanswered question is whether you'll be getting deemed or metered export without activating the smart meter (and changing to a smart plan in the process)

Anyone who has PV and a smart meter might know more

jkforde

"whether you'll be getting deemed or metered export without activating the smart meter (and changing to a smart plan in the process)"

I reckon you'll stay on deemed export until you activate the new D\N smart meter with a smart (D\N?!) tariff.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648673#Comment_120648673

You don't have to activate the smart tariff on a 24 hr meter to get a measured export, I'd say the new ones for the DN will be the same

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649071#Comment_120649071

So just to make sure I've got that right in my head, if you have a smart meter, but haven't activated it or signed up to a smart plan, you should still get measured export instead of deemed export?

Could you find that written down anywhere? Everywhere I was looking at was pretty ambiguous on that point

idc

My understanding of this is same as @graememk thats why all the suppliers ask 24 hour customers to get a smart meter to be able to get FIT even if staying on 24 hour non smart tariff.

Also the reason why Deemed FIT only applies to D/N meters is because we could not change to smart. Whereas 24 hour tariff you can switch to a non activated smart meter - it will still record usage and export which you can submit to your supplier?

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649220#Comment_120649220

And what happens to your D/N tariff when the smart meter gets installed? Do you revert to 24 hour? Or do they use the smart meter to do D/N billing?

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649284#Comment_120649284

That’s the problem, At the moment you can’t have or keep your d/n tariff when you switch to a smart meter.

If you switch you have to go on a 24hr tariff or a smart tariff.

There is a plan to offer a differently configured smart meter which will allow people with d/n meters to switch to smart meters and keep their d/n tariff. It’s not ready to roll out yet though so all those on d/n tariffs stay on deemed export in the meantime.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120645204#Comment_120645204

Be careful what you wish for. Unless you have an unusual usage pattern you are probably better off on deemed export.

Deemed export means you get paid even if you export nothing. So unless you are exporting the vast majority of your generation you are generally better off on deemed export. Check your own figures.

long live deemed export for me anyway! 😉

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649524#Comment_120649524

I wouldn’t have thought that the meter would be configured any differently. My smart meter is still accumulating units into several periods locally; but they do not match the periods that I’m being billed for by electric Ireland. What I understand is that electric Ireland (or any other supplier) has direct access to the half hourly usage data; so they can bill you however they wanted regardless of how the meter is configured. But I guess this is only if you’re willing to have the meter send the usage data and maybe people are not into that.

I guess what you are talking about is a smart meter that hasn’t been activated; but has its local counters configured to align with the traditional day night periods.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649675#Comment_120649675

They did release something that they are bringing out a different configured smart meter for DN customers this autumn. As you currently can't just press a button for it show the day units and press it again to show the night. - DST could also be a issue, as SM account for DST and DN don't.

For them to change the DN meter for a smart meter it needs to be a drop in replacement, no change of tariff or plan. -thats why they haven't been changed yet and we get a deemed export.

Basically smart meter pretends to be a DN.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649675#Comment_120649675

What I understand is that electric Ireland (or any other supplier) has direct access to the half hourly usage data; so they can bill you however they wanted regardless of how the meter is configured. 

that’s how we all thought it was going to work but it doesn’t.

The current smart meters cannot legally be used for a d/n tariff. They had to go through a CRU process to approve a new smart meter configuration which reconfigures the counters internally in the meters and they get a new reference/model number and then those reconfigured meters can be used as swap outs for the d/n meters.

You would have thought backend software would just aggregate the half hourly data into whatever tariff the provider wants but alas no.. we had to make it difficult.

JayBee66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649169#Comment_120649169

I only know it to be true from experience. I didn't inform SSE about our smart meter for a year because I was never sure they were going to pay any FIT. As soon as the first payment came in then I switched from a 24 hour tariff to a smart meter tariff. We never had a day/night meter so that was never an issue.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649738#Comment_120649738

My understanding (guess really) is that while the existing smart meter "in theory" could do the aggregation at the back end via software at the suppliers side, they lack actual registers to store the amount of electricity being used on the meter. In a perfect world this wouldn't make a difference.

However in reality what people have been seeing with their usage profile is that there are "gaps" or blanks in their telemetry from the ESB portal. Presumably down to packet drops or communication issues from the smart meter over GPRS to the central hubs. 1-2 gaps of 5 minutes in 2 months would be fine, but significant gaps for hours on end could be an issue if your meter isn't recording what you are actually using.

So they need a new meter with an additional 2nd register for storing the night time leccie along with the day time leccie.

I'm curious to see what they do with the winter/summer start times for D/N - will they migrate as they have done with some smart tarrifs to be the same all year round or will they continue the practice of moving when the hour goes forward. They may decide to do that as there are plans to do away with migrating to winter time across Europe (it was going to be kick started in 2021, but COVID postponed it)

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649903#Comment_120649903

I found this page explains a lot

https://www.esbnetworks.ie/existing-connections/meters-and-readings/smart-meter-upgrade/more-information-on-smart-meters-and-data

If you skip down to the section about the data collected by the smart meter

So it sends the 30 mins consumption data but it also collects data in 3 registers; day, night and peak and sends that on once a day and this is supposedly what the supplier uses for billing

I'm guessing this is to compensate for any gaps in the 30 mins data and ensure accurate billing

Presumably the Smart D/N meters will have different registers which don't follow daylight savings to allow for the traditional night rates

It's also unclear if the supplier can configure the registers remotely. For example Energia have a smart tariff with 4 time periods, so are they programming an additional register on the smart meter, or basing it off the 30 mins data

HotSwap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120650561#Comment_120650561

At least with electric Ireland the registers on the meter (day / peak / night) do not correspond with the resisters I’m being billed for (day / night / boost). It’s all worked off the transmitted 30 min data. And on one bill I had an “estimated” day; when the data failed to send. I didn’t bother getting into an argument with them about this. Not worth the hassle.

Ketron

Thanks folks for the info! I'm a heavy user of night rate in winter due to the geothermal heat pump, it peaked at 40kWh a day last year, so I certainly don't want to lose the D/N rate.

I've recently got solar installed and I'm feeding a hell of a lot more into the grid than deemed export suggests. 300kWh over the last week. I maxed out my engery production to try help compensate for the massive draw in winter.