Intellectuals weigh in on Cancel Culture

Silentcorner

Brian? wrote: »

Ah here. This is pure nonsense. Every generation frets about the plight of the next generation. They’ll be grand. Young people usually are.

We have young women who believe they are being oppressed in a brutal patriarchial system....we have young people who believe the world is going to end ...we have young people who believe gender is a social construct and therefore interchangeable...

We also have a mental health crisis.

MadYaker

Silentcorner wrote: »

Don't kid yourself...we'll drown ourselves in it...we are not known for our self control.

What hasn't been mentioned is the current generation, there is a very vocal element of this generation who hold very extreme positions and are simultaneously emotionally brittle individuals incapable of debate or hearing alternate views....they are in a delayed maturity cycle...growing older but staying emotionally immature and even regressing in some cases.

Too many people taking very permanent positions on temporary emotions.

"This generation", who do mean exactly? What age group?

You see I happen to believe that you and a few others on this site have constructed an idea of the boogeyman left in your heads that doesn't actually exist outside of cyberspace. Its a side effect of spending too much time on the internet. I'm open to having my mind changed though, if you have examples of what you're talking about.

MadYaker

Silentcorner wrote: »

We have young women who believe they are being oppressed in a brutal patriarchial system....we have young people who believe the world is going to end ...we have young people who believe gender is a social construct and therefore interchangeable...

We also have a mental health crisis.

Sounds like we have an old person who spends too much time on the internet and allows it to have too much sway over their views.

Silentcorner

MadYaker wrote: »

"This generation", who do mean exactly? What age group?

You see I happen to believe that you and a few others on this site have constructed an idea of the boogeyman left in your heads that doesn't actually exist outside of cyberspace. Its a side effect of spending too much time on the internet. I'm open to having my mind changed though, if you have examples of what you're talking about.

Fair enough...I have a different opinion to you...no need to get hot and bothered...if you have a different view on what is happening all around you I'm fine with that!

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

Cancel culture comes from social progressives who are sometimes not very progressive. I know that. I don’t need any “proof” to tell me what I know.

The radical left are concerned with overthrowing the global capitalist system. Not getting people banned from twitter.

Both groups above are the minority on the left. I’m glad you acknowledge that.

You make it sound like the radical left is a group with singular purpose. (overthrowing the global capitalist system)

It's not. It hundreds, if not thousands, of different opinions with their own, often conflicting agendas.

Modern Cancel culture comes from mean little people with social media accounts who feel the need to destroy other peoples lives and careers, because they feel their "cause" (whatever that might be) is righteous.

MadYaker

MadYaker wrote: »

"This generation", who do mean exactly? What age group?

You see I happen to believe that you and a few others on this site have constructed an idea of the boogeyman left in your heads that doesn't actually exist outside of cyberspace. Its a side effect of spending too much time on the internet. I'm open to having my mind changed though, if you have examples of what you're talking about.

Personally, I don't really feel there is a definite left anymore. It's now just those on the right, and the far right.

While there are issues or topics which might traditionally be assigned to the left (because of traditional associations), but the way people behave/think is far more indicative of those on the traditional right (not alt right). Which is why those who call themselves of the left are so interested in shutting down discussion, labeling dissenters, and the embracing of ever increasingly extreme stances. People swing depending on the topic on hand, but they argue or pursue their agendas in the same manner.

2u2me

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't care for the term "cancel culture". I think that it's misleading and masks a more subtle but concerning problem with modern societies.

Of course you don't. You're the one going around these boards lying with phrases like "Farage is a bigot" "Trump advocated to drink bleach".

You show up in every thread from Tommy Robinson to Trump to Alex Jones calling for them to be cancelled and that private companies are well within their rights to do what they want.

You don't care for the term 'cancel culture' because you want it to continue.

2u2me

Silentcorner wrote: »

Brian...you're gas!!!

The regulars from the Trump thread have descended on us to gaslight us it seems.

There is no cancel culture, there is no left, the left is miniscule, the left is not to be worried about, private companies can do what they want, what are you talking about?

The only argument being something vaguely about Marx.

Hold on, since when are Salman Rushdie (great books) and JK Rowling 'intellectuals'?


Socrates and Noam Chomsky are intellectuals.

Brian?

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

What other nuance are you looking for exactly. Have I not given you nuance? I've acknowledged these people are a minority, I've differentiated them from the average run of the mill left-winger.

You have. But you’re in the minority

Brian?

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

No, it comes from radical social progressives. Hence why I used the term the 'radical' left. I'd have JK down as a social progressive, yet she is currently feeling the full force of these people. Likewise Brett Weinstein.

I’m much happier with this distinction, but I still wouldn’t include these people in the radical left.

What I object to is the broad generalisations.

Brian?

Silentcorner wrote: »

We have young women who believe they are being oppressed in a brutal patriarchial system....we have young people who believe the world is going to end ...we have young people who believe gender is a social construct and therefore interchangeable...

We also have a mental health crisis.

We live in a more open society, tolerant of differences. That’s not causing a mental health crisis.

2u2me

Deleted User wrote: »

Hold on, since when are Salman Rushdie (great books) and JK Rowling 'intellectuals'?

Socrates and Noam Chomsky are intellectuals.

Intellectuals aren't just people that you like.

"An intellectual is a person who engages in works by intellect including critical thinking and reading, research, writing, and human self-reflection about society."

Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a fatwa calling for the death of Rushdie and his publishers. I'd say that makes him an expert in cancel culture.

I guess they should have thought about that before they published the book. No free speech without consequences, am I right?

The whole cancel culture is built on what is 'perceived to be offensive'.

The ones saying cancel culture is a thing are generally saying
"That's not offensive, even if it was that person should be free to say that".
The ones mocking the existence of cancel culture are generally thinking
"That's highly offensive they of course deserve to be cancelled".

The problem with this line is that those people are highly deceitful and cunning(One might say post-modern) because they won't even admit their position so that it can be challenged.

Chris_Heilong

Cancelled is too much of a passive word, what these people are saying is this person who has a dissenting opinion does not deserve to be working, feeding their family and should never be seen again, it is basically the mob sending someone to a virtual Gulag.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-scottish-mail-on-sunday/20200705/281479278698260

Children's author sacked for #IStandWithJKRowling

Silentcorner

2u2me wrote: »

The regulars from the Trump thread have descended on us to gaslight us it seems.

There is no cancel culture, there is no left, the left is miniscule, the left is not to be worried about, private companies can do what they want, what are you talking about?

The only argument being something vaguely about Marx.

It's like their love of their new religion is matched by their hatred of Trump....a president that signed an EO to guarantee free speech on US campuses...

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/435183-trump-signs-executive-order-aimed-at-protecting-free-speech-on

Which the signatories of the open letter have also managed to ignore mentioning...

What we are seeing is really weird, they hate the president that has been more pro lgbt, pro black communities, anti war, pro free speech than any president before him....

Quantum Erasure

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-scottish-mail-on-sunday/20200705/281479278698260

Children's author sacked for #IStandWithJKRowling

Receive death threats and then get fired. And people on here say this doesn't exist and others divert with pointless arguments about what various words mean.

The people who do this are scum. The people who support them are scum. Neither group has anything else going on in their lives so this ruining of people is their benchmark of success.

Bonniedog

Interesting that some of the British universities that have capitulated to threats over statues and speakers have agreed to Chinese secret police restrictions on what Chinese students can access online as part of their course.

And there will be no protests from the woke over this you may be certain.

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

We live in a more open society, tolerant of differences. That’s not causing a mental health crisis.

Actually, I feel that we live in a society (not restricted to Ireland) where people are afraid to voice their opinions, for fear of possible backlash.

Society is more tolerant of minority rights and claims, but there are far more crusaders around who are interested in destroying those who object to their crusade. There's more intolerance towards those who don't embrace the rights of those movements.

The transgender movement is a good example of that. It concerns an extremely small percentage of any population, but people who object are getting roasted. Their opinions are of lesser worth than those who fully embrace changing society to accommodate that small percentage, and their larger group of supporters.

Del Griffith

Brian? wrote: »

We live in a more open society, tolerant of differences. That’s not causing a mental health crisis.

Tolerant of some differences. Not tolerant of different opinions.

Yellow_Fern

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Definitely not. I'm a liberal centrist and remain bewildered as to why Irish culture warriors insist on using the American meaning of the term.

Using the word liberal as a synonym for left winger is not ideal but it has always been used that way in Ireland.
Here are two examples from dacdges ago https://www.firstthings.com/article/1995/11/004-to-be-conservative-in-ireland-a-lament
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/where-the-liberal-sits-side-by-side-with-the-firebrand-1.392226

rossie1977 wrote: »

Citations mean what exactly. I have a friend who has lots of citations in academic papers but I wouldn't call her an intellectual.

Is Peterson the beef only guy?

It is very hard to be a grifter with so many academic output. You can find non intellectual people who did a minor role in a paper that gets cited huge numbers of times, but these people will get a H index of 54.

Wanderer78

2u2me wrote:

"An intellectual is a person who engages in works by intellect including critical thinking and reading, research, writing, and human self-reflection about society."

Trump's clearly the finest intellect ever then, the greatest even

2u2me

The case of Aleksandar Katai from a few weeks ago was a curious case.

While he was as football training with his MLS team LA Galaxy his wife tweeted out something about BLM.

By the time he was finished training the tweet released by his wife had kicked up a storm. He was forced to apologize, then disavow his wife (not even a court would ask you to do that). This was not enough.

Galaxy fans immediately reacted with wide online calls for his dismissal. A handful of fans gathered by the David Beckham statue outside the club’s stadium holding a banner reading “No Racists in Our Club” along with a circle and a red line through No 7, Katai’s uniform number.

All because of what his wife said. What did she say? "Black nikes matter"

jam_mac_jam

2u2me wrote: »

The case of Aleksandar Katai from a few weeks ago was a curious case.

While he was as football training with his MLS team LA Galaxy his wife tweeted out something about BLM.

By the time he was finished training the tweet released by his wife had kicked up a storm. He was forced to apologize, then disavow his wife (not even a court would ask you to do that). This was not enough.

Galaxy fans immediately reacted with wide online calls for his dismissal. A handful of fans gathered by the David Beckham statue outside the club’s stadium holding a banner reading “No Racists in Our Club” along with a circle and a red line through No 7, Katai’s uniform number.

All because of what his wife said. What did she say? "Black nikes matter"

What is he meant to do control his little wiffey? How can you be held responsible for the actions of somebody you are married to.

Cultural revolution stuff.

osarusan

2u2me wrote: »

All because of what his wife said. What did she say? "Black nikes matter"

You continue to be as dishonest on this account as you were on your previous accounts.

Tea Katai’s posts included one written in Serbian, featuring a video of a police car running over protestors, saying “kill the shits”. Another described protesters as “disgusting cattle”, also in Serbian.

2u2me

osarusan wrote: »

You continue to be as dishonest on this account as you were on your previous accounts.

Focus on the important part, what she said. Standard.

ancapailldorcha

osarusan wrote: »

You continue to be as dishonest on this account as you were on your previous accounts.

This is why I have to ask for proof so often. Some people will happily spread misinformation and can't be taken in good faith.

2u2me

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

This is why I have to ask for proof so often. Some people will happily spread misinformation and can't be taken in good faith.

Says the person who claims Trump advocated to drink bleach. :pac:

Remember the last time I asked you for proof of that?

It starts here for anyone interested.

Brian?

2u2me wrote: »

Intellectuals aren't just people that you like.

"An intellectual is a person who engages in works by intellect including critical thinking and reading, research, writing, and human self-reflection about society."

Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a fatwa calling for the death of Rushdie and his publishers. I'd say that makes him an expert in cancel culture.

I guess they should have thought about that before they published the book. No free speech without consequences, am I right?

The whole cancel culture is built on what is 'perceived to be offensive'.

The ones saying cancel culture is a thing are generally saying
"That's not offensive, even if it was that person should be free to say that".
The ones mocking the existence of cancel culture are generally thinking
"That's highly offensive they of course deserve to be cancelled".

The problem with this line is that those people are highly deceitful and cunning(One might say post-modern) because they won't even admit their position so that it can be challenged.

What's all the "post modern" carry on I keep hearing?

osarusan

2u2me wrote: »

Focus on the important part, what she said. Standard.

For me the important part is how you deliberately misrepresent what she said by omitting stuff, to allow you to misrepresent the whole incident.


Utter bad faith posting. It's important for me to highlight that to other posters.



"Kill the sh!ts"