If there was no IRA....

jm08

markodaly wrote: »

Let us play this out.

"The Real IRA who shot and murdered Lyra McKee are the exact same as the IRA of the 1920', 'depending' on who you ask"

Who you ask indeed!

You can also deny climate change, deny the holocaust, or engage in loopy conspiracy theories 'depending' who you ask.
Not really a good benchmark to go after, to be honest. :pac:

Every version of the IRA have blood on their hands. Just with time, each version becomes respectable eventually and that is where the Provos are heading. Take Michael Collins for instance, he has a lot of blood on his hands, both British and Irish. The Free State executed 81 republicans during the Civil War. Michael Martin is now sitting under Michael Collins' picture in his new office.

TheCitizen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So far the shinnerbots are constantly harping on about IRA 1916, which is not the SF IRA. SF like to align themselves all the time to this section of history. They have nothing to do with it at all and FG and FF have the real links here.

The SF IRA is really the PIRA and all the different version since the 1960 which they are actually aligned with.

The PIRA is a lot murkier as these are the women rapers, child abusers, killed catholics, let Irish sit in jail for years, the list goes on. This variant is still the one killing people today and still in bed with SF. The “we fought for Ireland freedom” cost lost in what became a bunch of criminals

This has been a party political statement on behalf of FFG.

TheCitizen

jm08 wrote: »

Sinn Fein or the IRA were not at the table for the Sunningdale Agreement. They were all interned at the time. The failure of Sunningdale is entirely due to Unionists.

That’s been said to them over and over again. Doesn’t matter they keep bringing it up, rewriting what happened to suit a narrow party political pro FFG anti SF agenda out of context today. Repetitive and entirely disingenuous.

Shefwedfan

jm08 wrote: »

Every version of the IRA have blood on their hands. Just with time, each version becomes respectable eventually and that is where the Provos are heading. Take Michael Collins for instance, he has a lot of blood on his hands, both British and Irish. The Free State executed 81 republicans during the Civil War. Michael Martin is now sitting under Michael Collins' picture in his new office.

Nobody said they didn’t

The problem I have is one, the PIRA, also has raped women and children on their hands as well???

Plus all the rest. Not much freedom fighting going on when raping your own daughter while getting protected by the PIRA and it’s political party.

Shefwedfan

TheCitizen wrote: »

This has been a party political statement on behalf of FFG.

I see you don’t refute any of the statements....

gossipgirl123

Guys, I have obviously offended some people. I honestly wanted to educate myself on the troubles. Its unfathomable to me that someone could create such violence and i guess I wanted to know their mindset to understand. Maybe the IRA should be treated like hero's, again I wanted a bit of insight to their life as I know i am so lucky to live in my bubble.

I received a PM last night which wasn't nice. I dont think I deserved it. I am away today and may not return to this thread as I do not want to wake up in the morning to a PM attacking me.

Genuinely sorry if I offended anyone that was never my intention.

Shefwedfan

gossipgirl123 wrote: »

Guys, I have obviously offended some people. I honestly wanted to educate myself on the troubles. Its unfathomable to me that someone could create such violence and i guess I wanted to know their mindset to understand. Maybe the IRA should be treated like hero's, again I wanted a bit of insight to their life as I know i am so lucky to live in my bubble.

I received a PM last night which wasn't nice. I dont think I deserved it. I am away today and may not return to this thread as I do not want to wake up in the morning to a PM attacking me.

Genuinely sorry if I offended anyone that was never my intention.

Name and shame on the PM

Plus you didn’t offend anyone.

jm08

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So far the shinnerbots are constantly harping on about IRA 1916, which is not the SF IRA. SF like to align themselves all the time to this section of history. They have nothing to do with it at all and FG and FF have the real links here.

The SF IRA is really the PIRA and all the different version since the 1960 which they are actually aligned with.

The PIRA is a lot murkier as these are the women rapers, child abusers, killed catholics, let Irish sit in jail for years, the list goes on. This variant is still the one killing people today and still in bed with SF. The “we fought for Ireland freedom” cost lost in what became a bunch of criminals

Well, first of all, the IRA did not exist in 1916. The first version of the IRA was in 1917 - mostly returning soldiers from WWI who decided they didn't want to be conscripted and returned to the Western Front to be used as cannon fodder to further the ambitions of the British Empire and those 1916 volunteers who were not either executed or in jail. Michael Collins emerged as one of the leaders because everyone else was in prison.



Those original IRA men were every bit as vicious as anything the Provos produced. FFS, IRA men assinated Michael Collins. Dan Breen was no angel either, and of course the Free State executed freely their opponents and were every bit as vicious as the British State - all being sanitised now. Frank Aiken murdered innocent protestants and later became an esteemed Government Minister - so as you can see, there really isn't much difference to the early 20s version of the IRA and the PIRA in the Troubles.

You need to bear in mind that when the troubles kicked off in NI the late 60s, it was only 50s years after 1916, Irish War of Independence and Civil War, so there were a lot of people around who had a living memory of it.

The original IRA that you regard as heroes, did every bit as much harm to women and children as the PIRA did, except they institutionalised State abuse. How do you rationalise that one?

edit: Sean MacBride (son of Maud Gonne) was Chief of Staff of the IRA in the 30s. He later went onto win the Nobel Peace Prize and was one of the founders of Amnesty International. So as you can see, there is a pathway to redemption for these former IRA men.

weldoninhio

gossipgirl123 wrote: »

Guys, I have obviously offended some people. I honestly wanted to educate myself on the troubles. Its unfathomable to me that someone could create such violence and i guess I wanted to know their mindset to understand. Maybe the IRA should be treated like hero's, again I wanted a bit of insight to their life as I know i am so lucky to live in my bubble.

I received a PM last night which wasn't nice. I dont think I deserved it. I am away today and may not return to this thread as I do not want to wake up in the morning to a PM attacking me.

Genuinely sorry if I offended anyone that was never my intention.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/books/review/say-nothing-patrick-radden-keefe.html

Is a very good book about the Troubles. Might give you a bit of an education on what was going on up North at the time.

Shefwedfan

jm08 wrote: »

Well, first of all, the IRA did not exist in 1916. The first version of the IRA was in 1917 - mostly returning soldiers from WWI who decided they didn't want to be conscripted and returned to the Western Front to be used as cannon fodder to further the ambitions of the British Empire and those 1916 volunteers who were not either executed or in jail. Michael Collins emerged as one of the leaders because everyone else was in prison.



Those original IRA men were every bit as vicious as anything the Provos produced. FFS, IRA men assinated Michael Collins. Dan Breen was no angel either, and of course the Free State executed freely their opponents and were every bit as vicious as the British State - all being sanitised now. Frank Aiken murdered innocent protestants and later became an esteemed Government Minister - so as you can see, there really isn't much difference to the early 20s version of the IRA and the PIRA in the Troubles.

You need to bear in mind that when the troubles kicked off in NI the late 60s, it was only 50s years after 1916, Irish War of Independence and Civil War, so there were a lot of people around who had a living memory of it.

The original IRA that you regard as heroes, did every bit as much harm to women and children as the PIRA did, except they institutionalised State abuse. How do you rationalise that one?

edit: Sean MacBride (son of Maud Gonne) was Chief of Staff of the IRA in the 30s. He later went onto win the Nobel Peace Prize and was one of the founders of Amnesty International. So as you can see, there is a pathway to redemption for these former IRA men.

Great post but I was just referring to all the posts from SF supporters going on about 1916, it’s a wonder you picked my post and not theirs?

You keep saying not much difference, I didn’t see Michael Collins and the guys blowing up unborn children? Raping children? Raping women etc? Blowing up chip shop with kids when they know target is not in the place?

After they got England out did they continue to run illegal activities and kept killing people? Like the PIRA?

Think you will find once the conflict was over those people went home and started as much a normal life as they could. Same can’t be said of the PIRA can it?

You can continue to ignore what the PIRA did with the help of SF but don’t expect everyone else will.

TheCitizen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I see you don’t refute any of the statements....

The statements are lies. It’s actually quite disgusting the way you FFGers on here use the Northern Ireland conflict to pointscore for perceived narrow political gain

TheCitizen

gossipgirl123 wrote: »

Guys, I have obviously offended some people. I honestly wanted to educate myself on the troubles. Its unfathomable to me that someone could create such violence and i guess I wanted to know their mindset to understand. Maybe the IRA should be treated like hero's, again I wanted a bit of insight to their life as I know i am so lucky to live in my bubble.

I received a PM last night which wasn't nice. I dont think I deserved it. I am away today and may not return to this thread as I do not want to wake up in the morning to a PM attacking me.

Genuinely sorry if I offended anyone that was never my intention.

A brand new user and you kick off with a thread like this, makes you wonder.

SlowMotion321

gossipgirl123 wrote: »

Guys, I have obviously offended some people. I honestly wanted to educate myself on the troubles. Its unfathomable to me that someone could create such violence and i guess I wanted to know their mindset to understand. Maybe the IRA should be treated like hero's, again I wanted a bit of insight to their life as I know i am so lucky to live in my bubble.

I received a PM last night which wasn't nice. I dont think I deserved it. I am away today and may not return to this thread as I do not want to wake up in the morning to a PM attacking me.

Genuinely sorry if I offended anyone that was never my intention.

Ahh the innocence, mentioning the IRA anywhere in this country or that part of the internet associated with it is going to start some sort of a fire, don't worry about it, every poster on this thread who voices an opinion I can guarantee has done so many times before in many other situations, it's like asking someone to show you a picture of their kids, I might think they are ugly but you're going to show me wether i like it or not! I would suggest you hit the library for some books and try to inform your own opinion. But while your here just sit back and warm your hands at the filre you've started

TheCitizen

jm08 wrote: »

Well, first of all, the IRA did not exist in 1916. The first version of the IRA was in 1917 - mostly returning soldiers from WWI who decided they didn't want to be conscripted and returned to the Western Front to be used as cannon fodder to further the ambitions of the British Empire and those 1916 volunteers who were not either executed or in jail. Michael Collins emerged as one of the leaders because everyone else was in prison.



Those original IRA men were every bit as vicious as anything the Provos produced. FFS, IRA men assinated Michael Collins. Dan Breen was no angel either, and of course the Free State executed freely their opponents and were every bit as vicious as the British State - all being sanitised now. Frank Aiken murdered innocent protestants and later became an esteemed Government Minister - so as you can see, there really isn't much difference to the early 20s version of the IRA and the PIRA in the Troubles.

You need to bear in mind that when the troubles kicked off in NI the late 60s, it was only 50s years after 1916, Irish War of Independence and Civil War, so there were a lot of people around who had a living memory of it.

The original IRA that you regard as heroes, did every bit as much harm to women and children as the PIRA did, except they institutionalised State abuse. How do you rationalise that one?

edit: Sean MacBride (son of Maud Gonne) was Chief of Staff of the IRA in the 30s. He later went onto win the Nobel Peace Prize and was one of the founders of Amnesty International. So as you can see, there is a pathway to redemption for these former IRA men.

It’s ridiculous the way that poster is on here ranting and raving and reinventing history.

jm08

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Great post but I was just referring to all the posts from SF supporters going on about 1916, it’s a wonder you picked my post and not theirs?

I didn't see any other posts claiming that the IRA existed in 1916. Detail my friend.

You keep saying not much difference, I didn’t see Michael Collins and the guys blowing up unborn children? Raping children? Raping women etc? Blowing up chip shop with kids when they know target is not in the place?

Look up Frank Aiken (who was Chief of Staff of IRA at one stage, a founding member of Fianna Fail and later Taniste) and the Altnaveigh Massacre in South Armagh.

After they got England out did they continue to run illegal activities and kept killing people? Like the PIRA?

No, when they got most of the British out, they started killing each other in the Civil War. 300-400 civilians killed. I'm sure there were a few women and children in there.

Think you will find once the conflict was over those people went home and started as much a normal life as they could. Same can’t be said of the PIRA can it?

You can continue to ignore what the PIRA did with the help of SF but don’t expect everyone else will.

Well, the Free State Army took 12,000 prisoners and executed 81 of them.

It will be interesting to see how Fine Gael and Fianna Fail will manage to sanitise and rewrite their history in the upcoming 100th anniversary.

Shefwedfan

TheCitizen wrote: »

The statements are lies. It’s actually quite disgusting the way you FFGers on here use the Northern Ireland conflict to pointscore for perceived narrow political gain

How is anyone getting political gain? It’s a thread on boards?

Shefwedfan

jm08 wrote: »

I didn't see any other posts claiming that the IRA existed in 1916. Detail my friend.





Look up Frank Aiken (who was Chief of Staff of IRA at one stage, a founding member of Fianna Fail and later Taniste) and the Altnaveigh Massacre in South Armagh.



No, when they got most of the British out, they started killing each other in the Civil War. 300-400 civilians killed. I'm sure there were a few women and children in there.



Well, the Free State Army took 12,000 prisoners and executed 81 of them.

It will be interesting to see how Fine Gael and Fianna Fail will manage to sanitise and rewrite their history in the upcoming 100th anniversary.

I don’t see anyone rewriting history? Do you? If so point to it?

TheCitizen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How is anyone getting political gain? It’s a thread on boards?

You’re parroting the FFG line they resort to when they feel threatened by SF gains in popularity. Bullshít and lies with no context, using a civil conflict to pointscore. Real classy stuff.

Shefwedfan

jm08 wrote: »

I didn't see any other posts claiming that the IRA existed in 1916. Detail my friend.





Look up Frank Aiken (who was Chief of Staff of IRA at one stage, a founding member of Fianna Fail and later Taniste) and the Altnaveigh Massacre in South Armagh.



No, when they got most of the British out, they started killing each other in the Civil War. 300-400 civilians killed. I'm sure there were a few women and children in there.



Well, the Free State Army took 12,000 prisoners and executed 81 of them.

It will be interesting to see how Fine Gael and Fianna Fail will manage to sanitise and rewrite their history in the upcoming 100th anniversary.

You do understand the difference between a battle and casualties in the battle and walking into a chip show with the full knowledge the original target was not in the shop and you are just going to blow up kids etc?

Or planting a bomb in the middle of Omagh with no target at all just random people?

You do understand the difference in the two?

Shefwedfan

TheCitizen wrote: »

You’re parroting the FFG line they resort to when they feel threatened by SF gains in popularity. Bullshít and lies with no context, using a civil conflict to pointscore. Real classy stuff.

Are you saying the PIRA didn’t rape women or their own daughters? What context would you use to explain that?

jm08

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don’t see anyone rewriting history? Do you? If so point to it?

History has already been rewritten. FFS, you already tried to claim that everyone went home after the civil war and everything was honky dory!


I told you to look up the Altnaveigh Massacre and you didn't bother. Here is an account of what happened to one particular family. I don't see a hell of a lot of difference in what happened here and what happened 40 years later in Northern Ireland.

When one woman, Elizabeth Crozier, said to the man who had just murdered her elderly husband, "I didn't expect that of you, Willie," she was shot in front of her young family. Her last words were to them were, "Keep together and look after the little child." To ensure the surviving young Croziers understood the message, Aiken's men then destroyed their home with a bomb, before moving to other Protestants nearby. John Heslip and his son Robert were taken out and shot dead. The Gray household was set on fire, and the father of the family, John, murdered. Mrs Lockhart protested when her husband and son were being taken from her. Her son turned to speak to her and he too was shot, dying at his mother's feet.

This is well worth a read.


https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/an-irishman-s-diary-1.251219


What is very interesting about this is that this massacre was not recorded in the State records. It makes you wonder how many more took place that were never recorded.



Files detail cover-up of 1922 IRA murder of six Protestants

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-44083967

TheCitizen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Are you saying the PIRA didn’t rape women or their own daughters? What context would you use to explain that?

I have no idea. It may have happened, that sort of thing happened or happens in all sorts of organisations of all kinds. You appear to be obsessed with it, but just with it happening with this particular organisation as per usual.

jm08

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You do understand the difference between a battle and casualties in the battle and walking into a chip show with the full knowledge the original target was not in the shop and you are just going to blow up kids etc?

Thats not what happened though.

Or planting a bomb in the middle of Omagh with no target at all just random people?

They did have a target though.


You do understand the difference in the two?[/QUOTE]


No different to what happened to those sectarian murders committed by Frank Aiken and his squad that I have supplied links to.


Just for the record, I do not support and never have supported the PIRA (or any version of the IRA). Murder is murder as far as I'm concerned. What I'm getting at here is the hypocrisy of Fianna Fail & Fine Gael when they have sanitised their own terrorist past.

jm08

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Are you saying the PIRA didn’t rape women or their own daughters? What context would you use to explain that?

On the law of averages, I'm sure they probably did. Rape and abuse is quite common in all sections of Irish society.

mynamejeff

jm08 wrote: »

On the law of averages, I'm sure they probably did. Rape and abuse is quite common in all sections of Irish society.

and used as a tool of war all over the world ,

you are defending rapist scum because they once took an oath joining he ira

Shefwedfan

jm08 wrote: »

They did have a target though.

What was the target in Omagh?

Are you trying to say the target was the court house ???

Shefwedfan

jm08 wrote: »

On the law of averages, I'm sure they probably did. Rape and abuse is quite common in all sections of Irish society.

I really don’t know what to make of this statement

jm08

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What was the target in Omagh?

Are you trying to say the target was the court house ???

Opps - I was thinking of the Enniskillen bombing, probably because the Omagh bombing was planted by dissident republicans who oppose the GFA.

The only blame Sinn Fein can take for that is that they didn't persuade those dissident republicans to support the GFA.

Renno123

No IRA and we would still be living in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

jm08

mynamejeff wrote: »

and used as a tool of war all over the world ,
you are defending rapist scum because they once took an oath joining he ira

No, I'm not. I'm making the point that people in glasshouses need to be careful about throwing stones. Child abuse was institutionalised by the Irish State by absolutely abandoning their responsibilities to vulnerable children to church organisations.