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If there was no IRA....

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    #212
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    jm08 wrote: »
    Every version of the IRA have blood on their hands. Just with time, each version becomes respectable eventually and that is where the Provos are heading. Take Michael Collins for instance, he has a lot of blood on his hands, both British and Irish. The Free State executed 81 republicans during the Civil War. Michael Martin is now sitting under Michael Collins' picture in his new office.

    The Provo's heading towards respectability? ROFL. If anything it will go the opposite way.

    Kangaroo courts, summary extrajudicial executions, harbouring child molesters, rapes and sexual assaults by 'good' republicans going unpunished and that is not even talking about their campaign of terror and murder.

    No, in years and decades to come, when Scotland gets its independence especially, we on this island will realise it could have all been so different if some nutcases weren't so trigger happy.


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    #213
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    After they got England out did they continue to run illegal activities and kept killing people? Like the PIRA?

    .

    Did Dev and Co. run an illegal cross border smuggling operation?
    Did they hire out their expertise and services to goons and criminal cartels?
    Did they travel to South America to teach others on the art of terrorism and murder?
    And once there was peace, did they go off and rob a bank for millions as 'retirement' money for the 'good' republicans?

    No, no he did not. And I have little time for Dev and that crew, but to compare them to the modern-day Provos is a sin in of itself.


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    #214
    topmanamillion
    Registered Users Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭topmanamillion


    chicken foot wrote: »
    Had they of just lay down and took it, you have no idea where the current border would lie today..who's to say they wouldnt have pushed down further into the 26?

    This is a very interesting point and something I haven't considered before.

    If you look at Israel and how they encroached into Palestine over the last few decades or the Georgian boarder where the Russians are moving a barbed wire fence at night so people are going to sleep in Georgia and waking up in Russia, could the same have happened here?
    Would people in boarder areas here have faced the same issue?
    After independence it simply wasn't an option because the British/Unionists knew well they'd have faced a strong guerilla force still capable of mobilising regiments in every townland in the south.


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    #215
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    markodaly wrote: »
    .........................
    No, in years and decades to come, when Scotland gets its independence especially, we on this island will realise it could have all been so different if some nutcases weren't so trigger happy.




    Yep, thats us - ungrateful bastards who didn't appreciate the Brits and their empire.


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    #216
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Yep, thats us - ungrateful bastards who didn't appreciate the Brits and their empire.

    As you well know, there is a path to independence and freedom that doesn't have to involve wanton murder and violence.

    You know it, I know it, so stop pretending to be naive.


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    #217
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    markodaly wrote: »
    As you well know, there is a path to independence and freedom that doesn't have to involve wanton murder and violence..


    Do tell. I'm sure all the subjugated countries who took up arms against British colonialism are dying to hear this.


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    #218
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Do tell. I'm sure all the subjugated countries who took up arms against British colonialism are dying to hear this.

    Ask this guy.

    440px-Mahatma-Gandhi%2C_studio%2C_1931.jpg


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    #219
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    markodaly wrote: »
    Ask this guy.

    440px-Mahatma-Gandhi%2C_studio%2C_1931.jpg


    .......led a peaceful protest movement against a background of unrest and violence, the combination of which (along with distance) made British rule impossible.


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    #220
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Odhinn wrote: »
    .......led a peaceful protest movement

    Yeap, he sure did.


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    #221
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,536 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    markodaly wrote: »
    The Provo's heading towards respectability? ROFL. If anything it will go the opposite way.

    Kangaroo courts, summary extrajudicial executions, harbouring child molesters, rapes and sexual assaults by 'good' republicans going unpunished and that is not even talking about their campaign of terror and murder.

    No, in years and decades to come, when Scotland gets its independence especially, we on this island will realise it could have all been so different if some nutcases weren't so trigger happy.

    More FFG propaganda. It has really spooked you that last election result hasn’t it?


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    #222
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,536 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    markodaly wrote: »
    Yeap, he sure did.

    Cherry picking again Mark I see, even cherry picking bits of people’s posts to suit your anti SF agenda


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    #223
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    markodaly wrote: »
    The Provo's heading towards respectability? ROFL. If anything it will go the opposite way.

    Kangaroo courts, summary extrajudicial executions, harbouring child molesters, rapes and sexual assaults by 'good' republicans going unpunished and that is not even talking about their campaign of terror and murder.


    Wait until SF gets into Government and has access to all those state secrets that have been put away by FFG over the years. Why do you think FFG are so against SF being in Government?


    No, in years and decades to come, when Scotland gets its independence especially, we on this island will realise it could have all been so different if some nutcases weren't so trigger happy.


    First of all Scotland was not coerced into a union with England. Secondly, and most importantly, Scotland seeking independence would be the equivalent of Irish unionism/protestants seeking independence from the UK and the catholic/nationalists like Labour in Scotland more than likely supporting remaining in the Union because catholics would have been second class citizens (as what has happened in NI - like lack of Pariety of Esteem and all that stuff).


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    #224
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    markodaly wrote: »
    Did Dev and Co. run an illegal cross border smuggling operation?
    Did they hire out their expertise and services to goons and criminal cartels?
    Did they travel to South America to teach others on the art of terrorism and murder?
    And once there was peace, did they go off and rob a bank for millions as 'retirement' money for the 'good' republicans?

    No, no he did not. And I have little time for Dev and that crew, but to compare them to the modern-day Provos is a sin in of itself.


    Dev was up and about stirring up **** everywhere. He was a great friend of Nehru's in India, presumably giving good advice on how to get rid of your imperial bosses. He spent a load of time in the US raising money for the IRA as well. 1000s turned up to listen to him. Did you know that De Valera was on a visit to India and had lunch with Nehru and Mountbatten on Mountbattan's last day as Governor of India? So, I'd say Dev & Collins caused plenty of trouble for the British Empire. They broke the mould which lead to all those other countries gaining independence.


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    #225
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Nobody said they didn’t

    The problem I have is one, the PIRA, also has raped women and children on their hands as well???

    Plus all the rest. Not much freedom fighting going on when raping your own daughter while getting protected by the PIRA and it’s political party.

    I don't recall that being on any list of demands. I assume you have no time for the Catholic Church or FF/FG who covered for them, or the FF member who covered for his cousin and the current FF Ceann Comhairle who wrote a recommendation letter for another? Or maybe for those organisations it's different because IRA something...


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    #226
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    gossipgirl123 wrote: »
    Guys, I have obviously offended some people. I honestly wanted to educate myself on the troubles. Its unfathomable to me that someone could create such violence and i guess I wanted to know their mindset to understand. Maybe the IRA should be treated like hero's, again I wanted a bit of insight to their life as I know i am so lucky to live in my bubble.

    I received a PM last night which wasn't nice. I dont think I deserved it. I am away today and may not return to this thread as I do not want to wake up in the morning to a PM attacking me.

    Genuinely sorry if I offended anyone that was never my intention.

    Pretending you are looking for insight instead of honestly posting a 'RA bashing thread is my only issue.


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    #227
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    topmanamillion wrote: »
    This is a very interesting point and something I haven't considered before.

    If you look at Israel and how they encroached into Palestine over the last few decades or the Georgian boarder where the Russians are moving a barbed wire fence at night so people are going to sleep in Georgia and waking up in Russia, could the same have happened here?
    Would people in boarder areas here have faced the same issue?
    After independence it simply wasn't an option because the British/Unionists knew well they'd have faced a strong guerilla force still capable of mobilising regiments in every townland in the south.


    From what I recall, Thatcher wanted the British Army to be able to cross the Border and chase the IRA in the ROI. She of course offered that the Irish security forces could have reciprocal rights to enter Northern Ireland. The Irish Government were having none of it because they said they had no need to send security forces into Northern Ireland (and given an inch, they would take half a mile).


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    #228
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    jm08 wrote: »
    Wait until SF gets into Government and has access to all those state secrets that have been put away by FFG over the years. Why do you think FFG are so against SF being in Government?

    The 30 years rule notwithstanding? However, a very Trumpian view of it right there. SF wants to go into government to settle old scores.... Very grown-up alright.
    "Drain the swamp!"


    First of all Scotland was not coerced into a union with England.

    Hmmm, many a Scotsman will tell you otherwise. They have a long, even longer history of battling the English then we do.

    But, I do like this, "Ireland was different" talk, as if it justified murder.


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    #229
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    jm08 wrote: »
    Dev was up and about stirring up **** everywhere. He was a great friend of Nehru's in India, presumably giving good advice on how to get rid of your imperial bosses. He spent a load of time in the US raising money for the IRA as well. 1000s turned up to listen to him. Did you know that De Valera was on a visit to India and had lunch with Nehru and Mountbatten on Mountbattan's last day as Governor of India? So, I'd say Dev & Collins caused plenty of trouble for the British Empire. They broke the mould which lead to all those other countries gaining independence.

    Oh, so Dev had lunch with someone is the same as robbing banks and running illegal smuggling operations.


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    #230
    TheCitizen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,536 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    Bowie wrote: »
    Pretending you are looking for insight instead of honestly posting a 'RA bashing thread is my only issue.

    A sock puppet as well by the looks of it


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    #231
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    markodaly wrote: »
    ..................
    But, I do like this, "Ireland was different" talk, as if it justified murder.




    Attacks on crown forces were justified, as they were in Eden, Cyprus, Kenya, Burma/Myanamar and all the other nations who fought back against the colonialist regime.


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    #232
    afro man
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭afro man


    markodaly wrote: »
    Oh, so Dev had lunch with someone is the same as robbing banks and running illegal smuggling operations.

    A Certain Irish political party members got involved in Arms smuggling for the IRA not so long ago and one ended up as leader of Fianna Fail Would this be classed as the same as above :confused:


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    #233
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    Bowie wrote: »
    Pretending you are looking for insight instead of honestly posting a 'RA bashing thread is my only issue.

    kicking a nest of shinnerbots and watching them swarm seems like fun too matt


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    #234
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    markodaly wrote: »
    The 30 years rule notwithstanding? However, a very Trumpian view of it right there. SF wants to go into government to settle old scores.... Very grown-up alright.
    "Drain the swamp!"


    30 year rule is only to do with the public, as far I know. No need to worry if there is nothing to be hidden.

    Hmmm, many a Scotsman will tell you otherwise. They have a long, even longer history of battling the English then we do.

    But, I do like this, "Ireland was different" talk, as if it justified murder.


    They have been in a union for more than 300 years which they willingly signed up to in 1706 (because they were bankrupt). Access to the Empire and free trade with England was good for them.


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    #235
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Attacks on crown forces were justified, as they were in Eden, Cyprus, Kenya, Burma/Myanamar and all the other nations who fought back against the colonialist regime.

    I guess the murder of Lyra McKee was 'justified' by the New IRA seeing as they were attacking crown forces. Collateral damage and all that.
    On Thursday night, following an incursion on the Creggan by heavily armed British crown forces which provoked rioting, the IRA deployed our volunteers to engage. We have instructed our volunteers to take the utmost care in future when engaging the enemy, and put in place measures to help ensure this.

    “In the course of attacking the enemy Lyra McKee was tragically killed while standing beside enemy forces.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/22/lyra-mckee-friends-stage-protest-derry-offices-saoradh

    Do you stand by the New IRA? Do you support them and think their war against crown forces are justified?


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    #236
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    markodaly wrote: »
    Oh, so Dev had lunch with someone is the same as robbing banks and running illegal smuggling operations.


    Not just anybody. Mountbattan and Nehru when Britain was leaving India. Both the British and Irish authorities seem to not take too much interest in their activities - otherwise they would be in gaol.


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    #237
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    markodaly wrote: »

    Do you stand by the New IRA? Do you support them and think their war against crown forces are justified?




    They're a dissident group with no legitamacy and no, I don't think they are justified.


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    #238
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    kicking a nest of shinnerbots and watching them swarm seems like fun too matt

    Revisionist 'history' for the Empire minded FG'er needs to be called out. I don't care what party you believe to be stealing your thoughts.


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    #239
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Odhinn wrote: »
    They're a dissident group with no legitamacy and no, I don't think they are justified.

    The Provos were also a dissident group as they split from the IRA and had no legitimacy. Yet, you support the murdering carried out by one group, but not the other.


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    #240
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    markodaly wrote: »
    I guess the murder of Lyra McKee was 'justified' by the New IRA seeing as they were attacking crown forces. Collateral damage and all that.


    Do you stand by the New IRA? Do you support them and think their war against crown forces are justified?

    I don't. Thankfully we are working on a peace politically.
    I also wouldn't make one of their fellow travelers a Senator to spite another political party while patting myself on the back for that peace.


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    #241
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    markodaly wrote: »
    The Provos were also a dissident group as they split from the IRA and had no legitimacy. Yet, you support the murdering carried out by one group, but not the other.


    When they took the peace path, they choose to make themselves legitimate. - just like Collins and Dev did back in the day.


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