How do we break the welfare cycle?

gailforecast

How do we stop generational welfare recipients?

Do CE schemes or other work programs work? Or is there another approach we can take which will be effective?

Harry Palmr

Well, your timing is immaculate!

Diceicle

Centralise payments into one system backed up by some sort of National ID card. Cuts out fraud.
At the same time put a cap on the amout of total welfare payments an individual can claim - something near minimum wage - preferably below it.
Put a time limit on the number of years you are allocated use of council housing for. If you have a family - 10 or 15 years should be suffice to get your affairs in order. If you haven't been able to geta job that will sustain your living without government assistance in the past 10-15 years, and once the younger family members leave the nest, you must downsize to an appropriately sized apartment - thus freeing up a 3 bed property for the next needy young family. No more forevah homes.

screamer

No contribution no payouts.

ectoraige

Massive, and I mean *massive* investment in social workers, social care workers, addiction services, mental health services, and targeted educational support.

So many people in welfare traps have parents who were themselves raised by abusive or addicted parents with poor education supports, the cycle continues when the new generation continue the patterns of before.

irisheddie85

Do like what was done for the last generation who's children are now middle class. Let them buy their council house so they have equity in the area they are living and some form of wealth that can be passed on to the next generation giving them a better prospect of buying their own home in the future.

Eric Cartman

1 child benefit converted from a payment to a tax credit
2 free contraception
3 social housing in high demand areas only for those who actively work full time in those areas
4 No social housing queue jumping for having a kid, first come first served.
5 build more prison spaces, like thousands more and end suspended sentences for anyone with previous convictions
6 half JSA and increase JSB
7 drug testing claimants routinely
8 no disability payments for alcoholics, drug addicts or unproven back and neck injuries.
9 remove problem tenants from social housing under a 2 strike system, get removed from your second property and its on the streets for you.
10 add personal injury payouts to means tested payments.

TuringBot47

gailforecast wrote: »

How do we stop generational welfare recipients?

Force able bodied welfare recipients to perform community service until they get a job. Payment is conditional on engaging.

Galwayguy35

ectoraige wrote: »

Massive, and I mean *massive* investment in social workers, social care workers, addiction services, mental health services, and targeted educational support.

So many people in welfare traps have parents who were themselves raised by abusive or addicted parents with poor education supports, the cycle continues when the new generation continue the patterns of before.

Or maybe they are too lazy to work because the state does everything for them except wipe their arse.

ronivek

TuringBot47 wrote: »

Force able bodied welfare recipients to perform community service until they get a job. Payment is conditional on engaging.

Is this something that has been done in any other countries?

dubrov

Eric Cartman wrote:

1 child benefit converted from a payment to a tax credit 2 free contraception 3 social housing in high demand areas only for those who actively work full time in those areas 4 No social housing queue jumping for having a kid, first come first served. 5 build more prison spaces, like thousands more and end suspended sentences for anyone with previous convictions 6 half JSA and increase JSB 7 drug testing claimants routinely 8 no disability payments for alcoholics, drug addicts or unproven back and neck injuries. 9 remove problem tenants from social housing under a 2 strike system, get removed from your second property and its on the streets for you. 10 add personal injury payouts to means tested payments.

Most of the above had been implemented in the USA. His that working out?

Littlehorny

if your still on the dole after a year, it goes down 10% and then 10% every year after that. By the time your 5 years on the dole your only entitled to 50% of full dole.
In other words, get a fuppin job!!

4068ac1elhodqr

UBI: Gig away like the like the RollingStones, in this new multi-wave or post-pandemic gig-economy.

jrosen

Monkey see monkey do.

While we are all born equally our surroundings and upbringing has a huge impact on who we end up becoming. If you are born into a family where welfare is their main source of money it becomes the norm for you. Almost the same as a kid who's parents both went to college and who are ambitious. Chances are that child will follow suit.

By the time someone has reached late teens or early 20's its almost too late. They have spent their life depending on state handouts. They will have grown to expect a house, expect money every week and they know the system better than those who work in it.

Changes I believe have to be made slowly if they are to work. We cant simply pull the rug out from under someone at 25 and expect them to turn their life around and be self sufficient.

I dont know how. I do think making long term plans on welfare reform sets clear lines so people know what is coming. Be in max time claiming JSB, max child benefit etc.

1: Switch the problem's focus away from the shaming of lower-class/uneducated/vulnerable individuals to billionaires who do no meaningful work but pretend to live in Malta or the Channel Islands in order to pay zero tax, and to the overseas shell-companies that produce nothing but are allowed to use our jurisdiction as a tax haven at the expense of real-economy companies and jobs, and to the big-four 'accountancy consultant' firms that do very little other than enable fraud.


2: Acknowledge that these are two sides of the same coin and that the problem is global. 'Moral hazard' was a popular phrase during the banking crisis; in the context of this thread even the most pro-establishment of observers recongise that the basic moral standard that we should take no more than we contribute has been shattered from the top down. There will be no basis for telling anyone below median income, no matter how lazy, to work harder and contribute more until this contradiction has been solved.

belfe

ronivek wrote: »

Is this something that has been done in any other countries?

In North Korea it worked.

gailforecast

[Deleted User] wrote: »

1: Switch the problem's focus away from the shaming of lower-class/uneducated/vulnerable individuals to billionaires who do no meaningful work but pretend to live in Malta or the Channel Islands in order to pay zero tax, and to the overseas shell-companies that produce nothing but are allowed to use our jurisdiction as a tax haven at the expense of real-economy companies and jobs, and to the big-four 'accountancy consultant' firms that do very little other than enable fraud.


2: Acknowledge that these are two sides of the same coin and that the problem is global. 'Moral hazard' was a popular phrase during the banking crisis; in the context of this thread even the most pro-establishment of observers recongise that the basic morality of a person taking no more than they contribute has been shattered from the top down. There will be no basis for telling anyone to work harder and contribute more until this contradiction has been solved.

That doesn’t answer the question. People don’t remain purposely unemployed because of a billionaire.

Josh.

jrosen wrote: »

Monkey see monkey do.

While we are all born equally our surroundings and upbringing has a huge impact on who we end up becoming. If you are born into a family where welfare is their main source of money it becomes the norm for you. Almost the same as a kid who's parents both went to college and who are ambitious. Chances are that child will follow suit.

By the time someone has reached late teens or early 20's its almost too late. They have spent their life depending on state handouts. They will have grown to expect a house, expect money every week and they know the system better than those who work in it.

Changes I believe have to be made slowly if they are to work. We cant simply pull the rug out from under someone at 25 and expect them to turn their life around and be self sufficient.

I dont know how. I do think making long term plans on welfare reform sets clear lines so people know what is coming. Be in max time claiming JSB, max child benefit etc.

Agree

gailforecast

gailforecast wrote: »

That doesn’t answer the question. People don’t remain purposely unemployed because of a billionaire.

People withdraw when they feel that the jobs available to them are meaningless and that the lads at the top are complete scam artists.


Both of those judgements are correct.

gailforecast

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They do when they think that the jobs available to them are meaningless and that the lads at the top are complete scam artists.


Both of those things are correct.

Thinking that a job is meaningless seems like an attitude of any person on welfare. Why people think they’re above certain types of work is beyond me.

Eric Cartman

dubrov wrote: »

Most of the above had been implemented in the USA. His that working out?

fantastically for those who work and contribute, miserably for those who do not.... so how it should really. With the exception of access to healthcare, the US is great for almost anyone working above minimum wage.

Pkiernan

Food Stamps, not cash.

Double dole for those on long term contraception.

No children allowance.

gailforecast

Eric Cartman wrote: »

fantastically for those who work and contribute, miserably for those who do not.... so how it should really. With the exception of access to healthcare, the US is great for almost anyone working above minimum wage.

Especially those in mid/high-level careers. Here we punish high achievers instead.

kenmm

ectoraige wrote: »

Massive, and I mean *massive* investment in social workers, social care workers, addiction services, mental health services, and targeted educational support.

So many people in welfare traps have parents who were themselves raised by abusive or addicted parents with poor education supports, the cycle continues when the new generation continue the patterns of before.

This. And that is it. Commit to actually breaking the cycle.

gailforecast

gailforecast wrote: »

Thinking that a job is meaningless seems like an attitude of a prospective employee.

How do you mean? I thought the idea is that prospective employees are a good thing. How would anyone get a job if they weren't prospective employees?

gailforecast

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How do you mean? I thought the idea is that prospective employees are a good thing. How would anyone get a job if they weren't prospective employees?

If someone believes a job is meaningless, or think certain work is beneath them, that’s a rancid attitude.

mr_fegelien

Does anyone think there's a conspiracy behind this? Think about it, if restrictions on the dole are so easy to implement, why doesn't our government get on with them? They can't all be incompetent fools.

The theory I've heard about in the States is that the Democrats brought in welfare to destroy the family unit, this having been successfully done among African Americans as they're the ones who depend on it the most. Black illegitimacy got worse as times have progressed so perhaps some "shadow" government want to do the same for people in Ireland.

gailforecast

gailforecast wrote: »

If someone believes a job is meaningless, or think certain work is beneath them, that’s a rancid attitude.

What's the "prospective employee" slur about though? Last time I went for a job interview I was a prospective employee. Which is how I got the job.

mr_fegelien

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Does anyone think there's a conspiracy behind this? Think about it, if restrictions on the dole are so easy to implement, why doesn't our government get on with them? They can't all be incompetent fools.

The theory I've heard about in the States is that the Democrats brought in welfare to destroy the family unit, this having been successfully done among African Americans as they're the ones who depend on it the most. Black illegitimacy got worse as times have progressed so perhaps some "shadow" government want to do the same for people in Ireland.

Hi Gemma!

gailforecast

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What's the "prospective employee" comment about though? Last time I went for a job interview I was a prospective employee. Which is how I got the job.

I mistyped. It’s besides the point. If someone thinks certain work is beneath them, the blame doesn’t lie with billionaires, the blame lies with a stinking attitude problem.

oceanman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

fantastically for those who work and contribute, miserably for those who do not.... so how it should really. With the exception of access to healthcare, the US is great for almost anyone working above minimum wage.

the US is a broken country with huge problems and social divides, a place we should never try to aspire to...