Wedding Bells

smndly

Hi all,

Looking to see if I'm being unreasonable or for any advice.

Our Wedding was due to occur in June but did not due to COVID. We postponed to late August with our venue but never signed a new contract. Only signed contract is from 2019 way before COVID happened.

Our venue have recently said that we have to reduce our numbers by 50% or else postpone again until the new year, neither of which we want to do.

So we've looked elsewhere and have found somewhere suitable to change venue to. However, our original venue refuse to give 3k deposit back.

I feel that as they are unable to provide the terms of their contract that they are in breech of contract and must give us the deposit back.

I fully appreciate that this is the government's regulations and is out of their control how and ever we can't afford to be 3k down because of this.

Any opinions much appreciated!

Kaylami

smndly wrote: »

Hi all,

Looking to see if I'm being unreasonable or for any advice.

Our Wedding was due to occur in June but did not due to COVID. We postponed to late August with our venue but never signed a new contract. Only signed contract is from 2019 way before COVID happened.

Our venue have recently said that we have to reduce our numbers by 50% or else postpone again until the new year, neither of which we want to do.

So we've looked elsewhere and have found somewhere suitable to change venue to. However, our original venue refuse to give 3k deposit back.

I feel that as they are unable to provide the terms of their contract that they are in breech of contract and must give us the deposit back.

I fully appreciate that this is the government's regulations and is out of their control how and ever we can't afford to be 3k down because of this.

Any opinions much appreciated!

As it's a government directive that only 90 people can attend currently (then 10 staff) I don't think you would have much success trying the breach of contract route. Especially since they gave you the option to postpone to next year with no financial penalty.

If the hotel was saying you can only have x amount of guests then yes you would as this would be a policy implemented by them.

When did you postpone and was the coordinator working or laid off?

Was the original booking deposit €3k and did the original contract say it was non refundable?

Dav010

smndly wrote: »

So we've looked elsewhere and have found somewhere suitable to change venue to. However, our original venue refuse to give 3k deposit back.

I feel that as they are unable to provide the terms of their contract that they are in breech of contract and must give us the deposit back.
!

Does that mean that the other “suitable” place is allowing you to have more guests than the Government restrictions?

Brianmwalker

smndly wrote: »

Hi all,

Looking to see if I'm being unreasonable or for any advice.

Our Wedding was due to occur in June but did not due to COVID. We postponed to late August with our venue but never signed a new contract. Only signed contract is from 2019 way before COVID happened.

Our venue have recently said that we have to reduce our numbers by 50% or else postpone again until the new year, neither of which we want to do.

So we've looked elsewhere and have found somewhere suitable to change venue to. However, our original venue refuse to give 3k deposit back.

I feel that as they are unable to provide the terms of their contract that they are in breech of contract and must give us the deposit back.

I fully appreciate that this is the government's regulations and is out of their control how and ever we can't afford to be 3k down because of this.

Any opinions much appreciated!

I'm having similar problems with trying to get a deposit from a venue back. They aren't providing the agreed wedding and there's no suitable dates. The law is a joke for consumers, no protection with deposits!

drunkmonkey

Could you move the wedding outdoors in the same venue, I'd say you'd struggle to even get 50% to turn up if their going to be indoors with an airborne virus for long lenghts of time. Have the church part outdoors at the venue as well.

Darc19

A deposit by default is usually non refundable. Only if it states refund conditions, can you assume a refund is possible.

In this case the venue is following government health advice in relation to distancing.

If the normal capacity is 150, the new capacity may be only 70. So even though the max is 100 indoors, it is still subject to capacity.

So the hotel is not obligated to give a refund in this case as it is providing an alternative date or allowing a number that allows them conform to legal requirements.

As above, you will find many will decide against going. Maybe do a straw poll and see what reaction you get from the guests

Brianmwalker

Darc19 wrote: »

A deposit by default is usually non refundable. Only if it states refund conditions, can you assume a refund is possible.

In this case the venue is following government health advice in relation to distancing.

If the normal capacity is 150, the new capacity may be only 70. So even though the max is 100 indoors, it is still subject to capacity.

So the hotel is not obligated to give a refund in this case as it is providing an alternative date or allowing a number that allows them conform to legal requirements.

As above, you will find many will decide against going. Maybe do a straw poll and see what reaction you get from the guests

Plenty of reason that a deposit should be refinded:

You have a right to ask for your deposit back if:

you cannot agree a new delivery date
the new delivery date suggested is much later than you originally agreed
the business fails to meet the new agreed delivery date
the business cannot give you the item you agreed to buy

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/buying-goods/deposits/

Seems to me revenues should offer refunds! But once again its average Joe that has to pick up the slack and bail out another industry.

Darc19

Brianmwalker wrote: »

Plenty of reason that a deposit should be refinded:

You have a right to ask for your deposit back if:

you cannot agree a new delivery date
the new delivery date suggested is much later than you originally agreed
the business fails to meet the new agreed delivery date
the business cannot give you the item you agreed to buy

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/buying-goods/deposits/

Seems to me revenues should offer refunds! But once again its average Joe that has to pick up the slack and bail out another industry.

Absolutely, if a contract cannot be completed due to an issue with the hotel.

But they can do the date, however numbers are restricted by Covid-19 regulations.

They are also offering alternative dates.

It's the wedding couple that want to cancel as a more attractive alternative for them is available.

That unfortunately is not a valid reason for deposit refund


And you can be certain that quite a few guests will not attend at the present time.

Dav010

Brianwalker, you forgot to quote the paragraph above that on the ccpc site relating to businesses refunding deposits.

“If the business tells you that your delivery will be delayed, you should try to agree a new, reasonable date for delivery. If the product is delivered and is not what you ordered, you should contact the business immediately to arrange for it to be changed. In these situations, it is important for you to have written confirmation for proof of what you ordered.”

In the ops case, it is not the business who it telling the op that the delivery of the service is being delayed, the Government is. The business has offered a new date with numbers restricted by Government policy, or, the first available date when full service is allowed.

While I think the hotel should refund the deposit in full, as another poster has pointed out, deposits by default are non refundable unless it says otherwise in the contract.

smndly

Thanks for the Replies!

So, the alternative venue is still within government regulations. The original venue due to its size cant accommodate more than 50 people now with social distancing restrictions. The alternative is larger and so can accommodate 100 people total (guests +staff)

We had suggested moving the wedding outdoors into a marquee but the hotel says they don't have access to a marquee.

The contract does state that the deposit is non refundable. The deposit was 1000euro and was paid when we signed the contract over a year ago.

Then we had to pay a further €2000 in February as part of the payment schedule. Therefore, I don't believe the €2000 is a deposit as such but not sure what its status is regarding refund. Surely the non-refundable status of the deposit does not apply to this amount.

We postponed when the government regulation was brought in in March.

I fully appreciate and understand that it's government regulation causing the hotel to restrict capacity but still can't really afford to lose this money! At this stage, most weekend 2021 dates are even booked out so we'd be forced into a 2022 wedding.

screamer

You can absolutely forget about getting a deposit back from a hotel. They are non refundable and form personal experience you’re literally wasting your time even asking the question. It might not seem fair, and it isn’t but read your contract and you’ll see they can keep your money if you cancel or go elsewhere. I especially can’t see hotels struggling to survive refunding deposits in this environment.

Brianmwalker

Dav010 wrote: »

Brianwalker, you forgot to quote the paragraph above that on the ccpc site relating to businesses refunding deposits.

“If the business tells you that your delivery will be delayed, you should try to agree a new, reasonable date for delivery. If the product is delivered and is not what you ordered, you should contact the business immediately to arrange for it to be changed. In these situations, it is important for you to have written confirmation for proof of what you ordered.”

In the ops case, it is not the business who it telling the op that the delivery of the service is being delayed, the Government is. The business has offered a new date with numbers restricted by Government policy, or, the first available date when full service is allowed.

While I think the hotel should refund the deposit in full, as another poster has pointed out, deposits by default are non refundable unless it says otherwise in the contract.

I didn't forget to quote anything. The key point is:
you cannot agree a new delivery date.

IHF guideline say hotels should refund but unlike the UK theres no law protecting the consumer here so nothing forcing the hotels to do anything.

Dav010

Brianmwalker wrote: »

I didn't forget to quote anything. The key point is:
you cannot agree a new delivery date.

IHF guideline say hotels should refund but unlike the UK theres no law protecting the consumer here so nothing forcing the hotels to do anything.

Ya you did. If the business tells you delivery of a service is delayed or not as described, the business isn’t telling the op this, the Government is. Big difference,

Deposits are not refundable unless stated in the contract.

smndly

Would anyone know what that status of the €2000 would be that we paid as part of the payment schedule? This isn't a deposit so should not come under the non-refundable stipulation in the contract.

I called the CCPC and they were optimistic about getting fully refunded but I feel their job is to be on the consumer's side and i'd like a realistic point of view too!

Brianmwalker

Dav010 wrote: »

Ya you did. If the business tells you delivery of a service is delayed or not as described, the business isn’t telling the op this, the Government is. Big difference,

Deposits are not refundable unless stated in the contract.

In the op it's the venue saying reduce numbers or change dates...

Brianmwalker

smndly wrote: »

Would anyone know what that status of the €2000 would be that we paid as part of the payment schedule? This isn't a deposit so should not come under the non-refundable stipulation in the contract.

I called the CCPC and they were optimistic about getting fully refunded but I feel their job is to be on the consumer's side and i'd like a realistic point of view too!

For 2k go to the small claims court.

Dav010

Brianmwalker wrote: »

In the op it's the venue saying reduce numbers or change dates...

Numbers are being reduced as per Covid restrictions, same as everywhere else, and has offered first available date for full service. Op just wants a bigger venue, that is a change of mind.

It’s a very tough situation for the op, and the venue should refund all, but that is not the same as saying they have to.

smndly

Dav010 wrote: »

Numbers are being reduced as per Covid restrictions, same as everywhere else, and has offered first available date for full service. Op just wants a bigger venue, that is a change of mind.

It’s a very tough situation for the op, and the venue should refund all, but that is not the same as saying they have to.

We haven't changed our mind really. We were told and our contract says we can have 90people at the wedding. The venue has changed their mind on that number (due to guidelines). So that means we are unable to have our wedding at the venue. It's not us just changing our mind.

Dav010

smndly wrote: »

We haven't changed our mind really. We were told and our contract says we can have 90people at the wedding. The venue has changed their mind on that number (due to guidelines). So that means we are unable to have our wedding at the venue. It's not us just changing our mind.

All venues have “changed their mind” on numbers as a result of Covid restrictions, not just the one you you booked, you now need/want a bigger venue, that is not the Hotel’s fault. You are still able to have your wedding at the original hotel, but within the confines of Government regulations which they are abiding by.

I know it is splitting hairs, but they will argue that they are providing the service as per the Government regs.

Kaylami

The further payment of €2000 they should refund. Normally its the original €1000 booking deposit that is nonrefundable only.

I work as a wedding coordinator and this is what we are doing if needs be.

Is there a cancellation scale in your contract?

Darc19

smndly wrote: »

We haven't changed our mind really. We were told and our contract says we can have 90people at the wedding. The venue has changed their mind on that number (due to guidelines). So that means we are unable to have our wedding at the venue. It's not us just changing our mind.

You need to get away from this type of talk. You will get absolutely nowhere and start ruining your wedding day.

The venue DID NOT CHANGE THEIR MIND on numbers. It is a government regulation that they must legally follow. There is no option for them.

I can guarantee you that a SUBSTANTIAL Number of guests will not turn up, so, as I said before, do a straw poll and get feedback especially from the more mature guests.

I had a dinner event planned for September. 200+ were expected. We contacted about 20 aged 60+, most said that they probably wouldn't go. We moved it to next year.