Smart Alarm "Special Event"

2011

This looks interesting. The dubbing is frustrating but the smart features are very impressive. Ajax systems are becoming increasingly popular especially for DIY / self installs.

On July 9th, Ajax Special Event took place, a virtual presentation of 8 new products. These products are devices and software developments, on which the company was focused in the first half of 2020. Ajax product line will be enhanced by the powerful Hub 2 Plus control panel supporting LTE and rapid photo verification of alarms. MultiTransmitter integration module with 18 zones renovating wired security systems. Power supply units of 12 V and 6 V for hubs and range extenders, ensuring the security of premises lacking electricity, as well as cars, vans, yachts. Two significant updates to the operating system are being prepared for release: OS Malevich 2.9 and OS Malevich 2.10. And today, our partners have access to the beta version of the Ajax 911 central monitoring software.

kub

I just had a look at their products and what is screaming at me is they seem to be guys with a background in IT designing a Security system


Fair dues to them, but I still see their gear as easy to bypass.

machiavellianme

kub wrote: »

I just had a look at their products and what is screaming at me is they seem to be guys with a background in IT designing a Security system


Fair dues to them, but I still see their gear as easy to bypass.

Based on what? A hunch?
You can say the same about bypassing every other manufacturer, just remove all comms/power etc.
What qualifications exactly do you think security system designers should have?
Mathematics? Electronic engineering? Industrial design?

kub

machiavellianme wrote: »

Based on what? A hunch?
You can say the same about bypassing every other manufacturer, just remove all comms/power etc.
What qualifications exactly do you think security system designers should have?
Mathematics? Electronic engineering? Industrial design?

Sorry have I touched a nerve or something ?

Well firstly what is a blatant and spectacular failure is the design of their panel, there is a picture on their site as above of a control panel wall mounted with 2 leads coming out of it and are attached to a 7amp 12 volt standard battery.
A child could take that apart and I do not know of any standard whatsoever that this practice could comply with.

So you think that all you have to do to bypass a properly specified and fitted system is just to remove power and Comms....is that all.....is that a hunch ?

machiavellianme

kub wrote: »

Sorry have I touched a nerve or something ?

Well firstly what is a blatant and spectacular failure is the design of their panel, there is a picture on their site as above of a control panel wall mounted with 2 leads coming out of it and are attached to a 7amp 12 volt standard battery.
A child could take that apart and I do not know of any standard whatsoever that this practice could comply with.

So you think that all you have to do to bypass a properly specified and fitted system is just to remove power and Comms....is that all.....is that a hunch ?

Good point on that pic. I had a look at it too as it's not on any system I've seen. Apparently it's a new feature for boats and caravans and remote sheds. It's an extra power supply on top of the built in 8 hour battery. Not needed for normal home installation. I'd agree its mighty confusing though.

I know nothing about bypassing systems. But the same issues would plague any system or are there some that can run without power and comms?

bk

kub wrote: »

Sorry have I touched a nerve or something ?

Well firstly what is a blatant and spectacular failure is the design of their panel, there is a picture on their site as above of a control panel wall mounted with 2 leads coming out of it and are attached to a 7amp 12 volt standard battery.
A child could take that apart and I do not know of any standard whatsoever that this practice could comply with.

So you think that all you have to do to bypass a properly specified and fitted system is just to remove power and Comms....is that all.....is that a hunch ?

So, I think you have misread the site and misunderstood their products.

Their standard panels come with a built-in Lithium-Ion battery for power backup.

The 12v battery support, is an optional extra that they have just launched for use in places like caravans and yachts:
https://ajax.systems/products/12vpsu/

It shows what a great product this is that they are adding extra flexibility and options for different scenarios.

Their latest panel supports 4 comms channels, ethernet, wifi and two 4g sims!!

Each of the sims can switch between 2g/3/g/4g and different frequencies and mobile networks (including world sims), in addition to the default wifi/ethernet.

They also have cloud side polling, either 10 to 300 seconds depending on the setting.

It really looks to be everything a modern alarm system should have.

BTW, this is a fully EN 50131-1:2006 certified system.

So I don't see any obvious way to bypass the system. On the contrary it looks far more robust then most systems on the market in Ireland.

Not that you couldn't of course physically destroy the system if you gain physical access to the panel. That is possible with ALL alarm systems. The question is can you bypass it with out it first activating it, making lots of noise and sending a message to the owner or security monitor center.

altor

bk wrote: »

BTW, this is a fully EN 50131-1:2006 certified system.

Have you a link to this bk?

Just had a look on the site and cant see if its self declared or independently tested to conform to EN 50131-1:2006

altor

kub wrote: »

Well firstly what is a blatant and spectacular failure is the design of their panel, there is a picture on their site as above of a control panel wall mounted with 2 leads coming out of it and are attached to a 7amp 12 volt standard battery.
A child could take that apart and I do not know of any standard whatsoever that this practice could comply with.

Im hoping it is just to show the illustration that a 7 Amp can be used in a boxed housing rather than connecting straight to the mains.

kub

altor wrote: »

Im hoping it is just to show the illustration that a 7 Amp can be used in a boxed housing rather than connecting straight to the mains.

No doubt we would probably have to get a Powerplex PSU with a tampered box, 12 v 7AH battery within, then what do we connect the tamper switch to ?
I think it is strange that they are not offering a suitable enclosure for the extra battery.


Also if it was that great it would surely comply with grade 2.

kub

altor wrote: »

Have you a link to this bk?

Just had a look on the site and cant see if its self declared or independently tested to conform to EN 50131-1:2006

Interesting, because with the way the mains lead is connected to it, I know my auditor would have a serious issue with it complying.

bk

altor wrote: »

Have you a link to this bk?

Just had a look on the site and cant see if its self declared or independently tested to conform to EN 50131-1:2006

Lots of info here, looks to be independently tested:
https://ajax.systems/blog/what-is-a-security-grade/

It really impresses me on how much info they have on the site on all details of their products and the transparency given there.

They have some really good easy to understand explanations on what are quiet technical details.

I have yet to try this system, so I'll be completely honest and I can't say how good it really is or not. But I'm incredibly impressed with the level of detail on their site, it really is head and shoulders above anything I've seen from any other company.

They certainly talk the talk and on paper for me it looks to tick nearly all the boxes in my ideal system. This type and level of transparency really appeals to me.

Currently I'm just trying to milk the value out of my existing system, but I've been keeping a close eye on this company with great interest and unless anything else pops up in the next year to two, I'll probably look to upgrade to one.

altor

kub wrote: »

No doubt we would probably have to get a Powerplex PSU with a tampered box, 12 v 7AH battery within, then what do we connect the tamper switch to ?
I think it is strange that they are not offering a suitable enclosure for the extra battery.


Also if it was that great it would surely comply with grade 2.

Looks like that would have to be wireless to get a tamper on the PSU.
In saying that Grade 1 systems dont need tampers so they are in the clear on that

As you are aware if its monitored this is a different story.

altor

bk wrote: »

Lots of info here, looks to be independently tested:
https://ajax.systems/blog/what-is-a-security-grade/

It really impresses me on how much info they have on the site on all details of their products and the transparency given there.

They have some really good easy to understand explanations on what are quiet technical details.

I have yet to try this system, so I'll be completely honest and I can't say how good it really is or not. But I'm incredibly impressed with the level of detail on their site, it really is head and shoulders above anything I've seen from any other company.

They certainly talk the talk and on paper for me it looks to tick nearly all the boxes in my ideal system. This type and level of transparency really appeals to me.

Currently I'm just trying to milk the value out of my existing system, but I've been keeping a close eye on this company with great interest and unless anything else pops up in the next year to two, I'll probably look to upgrade to one.

Grade 2 as well.

Im sure you will bite the bullet some day

altor

kub wrote: »

Interesting, because with the way the mains lead is connected to it, I know my auditor would have a serious issue with it complying.

It would in grade 2 as the lowest graded device would make it a grade 1.
Grade 1 it would pass without a tamper.

kub

altor wrote: »

Looks like that would have to be wireless to get a tamper on the PSU.
In saying that Grade 1 systems dont need tampers so they are in the clear on that

As you are aware if its monitored this is a different story.

I know, I am old fashioned about this tampering

bk

Yes, I'm guessing that it is only certified as grade 2 for a standard install and with standard equipment.

Using the new 12V battery support in something like a caravan or yacht might well not confirm.

Having said that, given the cloud nature of the product, even if someone was to tamper with the 12v battery, the onboard lithium-ion battery would continue to work and you would likely get a notification of something up with the battery.

kub, if you were to put your 12v battery in a box with a tamper switch, could you use the following for the tamper switch on the box to connect to the panel?:
https://ajax.systems/products/transmitter/

BTW Did you guys see this other new product they are selling which allows you to make use of existing wired sensors:
https://ajax.systems/products/multitransmitter/

An enclosure with tampers and space for a 12v battery.

altor

bk wrote: »

Yes, I'm guessing that it is only certified as grade 2 for a standard install and with standard equipment.

Using the new 12V battery support in something like a caravan or yacht might well not confirm.

Having said that, given the cloud nature of the product, even if someone was to tamper with the 12v battery, the onboard lithium-ion battery would continue to work and you would likely get a notification of something up with the battery.

kub, if you were to put your 12v battery in a box with a tamper switch, could you use the following for the tamper switch on the box to connect to the panel?:
https://ajax.systems/products/transmitter/

BTW Did you guys see this other new product they are selling which allows you to make use of existing wired sensors:
https://ajax.systems/products/multitransmitter/

An enclosure with tampers and space for a 12v battery.

That is a great addition for taking over a wired alarm if it can use analyzed sensors.

Its just a pity about the keypad being dumb, I know you can use the app but its not for everyone.


This crowd are trying to sell it to installers over here.
Prices are very cheap compared to systems over here.
€26.25 Plus vat for the transmitter you linked to above.

If the battery was installed in a tamper housing it could be used on a boat and that would make it a Grade 2.

kub

altor wrote: »

That is a great addition for taking over a wired alarm if it can use analyzed sensors.

Its just a pity about the keypad being dumb, I know you can use the app but its not for everyone.


This crowd are trying to sell it to installers over here.
Prices are very cheap compared to systems over here.
€26.25 Plus vat for the transmitter you linked to above.

If the battery was installed in a tamper housing it could be used on a boat and that would make it a Grade 2.

What is jumping out at me is that big question about analyzed zones, I have my doubts though that they are.
I am surprised that crowd have been trying to sell it over here considering a certain organisation up your way have an agency for it.
Do they have a functioning SAB ?

altor

kub wrote: »

What is jumping out at me is that big question about analyzed zones, I have my doubts though that they are.
I am surprised that crowd have been trying to sell it over here considering a certain organisation up your way have an agency for it.
Do they have a functioning SAB ?

It would be a good addition if it did. If not back to the days of the analyzed boards

I am sure they know nothing about it but it would be handy for a take over. Panel is cheap enough as well depending on what you want it to do with the different hubs available.
Same with the Zerowire panel, handy take over if just replacing the control panel

They have a wire free sab, can also be given 12 V.

2011

I think systems like this are great as they force rival manufacturers to up their game. It’s like some of the people that complain about iPhones, they forget that they inspired the phones they do like

bk

altor wrote: »

Its just a pity about the keypad being dumb, I know you can use the app but its not for everyone.

100%, it is the one thing I noticed and not crazy about. It does look better then my Yale, but I will admit I miss my old HKC keypad.

Having said that, we do mostly use the app now.

I do think it is a mistake that a lot of the newer systems are making. Apps are ok (and obviously brilliant for remote notifications), but often physical interaction day to day is quicker and easier. And the keypad is often the only part of an alarm system like this that people actually see and interact with, so I do think they should make more effort there.

In particular I don't understand why no one has put an e-ink display on a keypad. I've got one on my thermostat and it is amazing. It goes years between changing the batteries but still has an always on screen and is tiny.