Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

I don't do much WFH myself but I fear (using that word as it's not great to mandate folk to WFH IMO but such is life currently) many folk will be doing the WFH thing for years to come.

Last official spiel was on 18th Aug I think......... People should work from home where it is possible to do so during the COVID-19 pandemic. On 18 August 2020, the Government announced additional public health measures, including that people should work from home unless it is absolutely essential for them to attend in person.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/health_and_safety/working_at_home.html

The_Conductor

Augeo wrote: »

I don't do much WFH myself but I fear (using that word as it's not great to mandate folk to WFH IMO but such is life currently) many folk will be doing the WFH thing for years to come.

Last official spiel was on 18th Aug I think......... People should work from home where it is possible to do so during the COVID-19 pandemic. On 18 August 2020, the Government announced additional public health measures, including that people should work from home unless it is absolutely essential for them to attend in person.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/health_and_safety/working_at_home.html

The advisory on the 18th of August expires on the 13th September- when they're expected to issue new advice. At the moment that new advice may be looking rather unpalatable for Counties Dublin and Limerick- who most certainly are going to be disappointed if they think their pubs are reopening- and could very well be going on lite-form-lockdowns.

awec

The_Conductor wrote: »

The advisory on the 18th of August expires on the 13th September- when they're expected to issue new advice. At the moment that new advice may be looking rather unpalatable for Counties Dublin and Limerick- who most certainly are going to be disappointed if they think their pubs are reopening- and could very well be going on lite-form-lockdowns.

The only way they'll get away with keeping pubs closed after this Sept 21st date is if they force other businesses like restaurants and retail to close again.

There's no way Vinters or the pub owners themselves will take another delay.

The_Conductor

The_Conductor wrote: »

The advisory on the 18th of August expires on the 13th September- when they're expected to issue new advice. At the moment that new advice may be looking rather unpalatable for Counties Dublin and Limerick- who most certainly are going to be disappointed if they think their pubs are reopening- and could very well be going on lite-form-lockdowns.

Well, I doubt the WFH guidance will be changing anyway.

awec wrote: »

........

There's no way Vinters or the pub owners themselves will take another delay.

They'll do as instructed
Once they open they'll be p1ssing and moaning about low takings anyway ........ disaster either way for them.

Cyrus

Augeo wrote: »

Well, I doubt the WFH guidance will be changing anyway.

im assuming it will actually but maybe not

our office in london is reopening at any rate.

awec

Augeo wrote: »

Well, I doubt the WFH guidance will be changing anyway.




They'll do as instructed
Once they open they'll be p1ssing and moaning about low takings anyway ........ disaster either way for them.

I don't think they will.

I know the Vinters are not very popular and have got on people's wick in the past with some of their bull****, particularly around the min pricing stuff etc, but they have been absolutely shafted.

You can argue it was necessary, probably not a difficult argument to make, but I don't see it being delayed again.

The Belly

awec wrote: »

I don't think they will.

I know the Vinters are not very popular and have got on people's wick in the past with some of their bull****, particularly around the min pricing stuff etc, but they have been absolutely shafted.

You can argue it was necessary, probably not a difficult argument to make, but I don't see it being delayed again.

They did in the Uk down to max of six no business can survive that.

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

im assuming it will actually but maybe not

our office in london is reopening at any rate.

I really don't see the "People should work from home where it is possible to do so" changing, especially in Dublin where further restrictions are likely if you believe what the media are mentioning.

England is a totally different kettle of fish, we won't mimic their approach IMO.

PropQueries

Cyrus wrote: »

im assuming it will actually but maybe not

our office in london is reopening at any rate.

I think the difference between London and Dublin is that many of the jobs in Dublin are back-office/ customer service jobs so are more amenable to remote working in the the long-term, probably permanently.

Many jobs in the same organisations in London, New York or Silicon Valley would probably benefit more from employees going back to the office than those in Dublin.

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

I think the difference between London and Dublin is that many of the jobs in Dublin are back-office/ customer service jobs so are more amenable to remote working in the the long-term, probably permanently.

Many jobs in the same organisations in London, New York or Silicon Valley would probably benefit more from employees going back to the office than those in Dublin.

even if that was true why would the government care about, that sounds more like a consideration for an employer.

Cyrus

Augeo wrote: »

I really don't see the "People should work from home where it is possible to do so" changing, especially in Dublin where further restrictions are likely if you believe what the media are mentioning.

England is a totally different kettle of fish, we won't mimic their approach IMO.

maybe not, i have got the sense the language will change but i could be totally wrong

PropQueries

Cyrus wrote: »

even if that was true why would the government care about, that sounds more like a consideration for an employer.

That's the scary part. It is a consideration for the employer. Even if they wanted them to come back, good employees may move to organisations that do offer it, so all companies will probably have to offer it, whether they want to or not.

For example, the majority of Google employees are WFH until next July. By that stage it will be over a year. They have already or will iron out any disadvantages they see from WFH by that stage and it will have become the norm.

Once it becomes the norm, that's it. I don't think employees are going back to the office environment in the numbers that the Governments hope and they should probably be drawing up plans to reflect this.

MacronvFrugals

PropQueries wrote: »

That's the scary part. It is a consideration for the employer. Even if they wanted them to come back, good employees may move to organisations that do offer it, so all companies will probably have to offer it, whether they want to or not.

For example, the majority of Google employees are WFH until next July. By that stage it will be over a year. They have already or will iron out any disadvantages they see from WFH by that stage and it will have become the norm.

Once it becomes the norm, that's it. I don't think employees are going back to the office environment in the numbers that the Governments hope and they should probably be drawing up plans to reflect this.

I already know of 1 IT firm who have listed their office for sale and staff are WFH 100% of the time going forward.

neutral guy

I was working with many young lads on many places
Many of them live with parents paying house keeping tax
And drive cars for which they pay 400 euros per month loan
Only them cars insurances are 3-5K per year !
Some cars are worth 40/50 K most lads has phones which cost 600-1000 euros
New designer wear from 500 for hoody,runners for 200 euros,etc,etc.
Clubs,parties,take aways on weekend
And all 500-700 euros per week wage gone trough it
Tuesday morning guys does not even have fags and starting asking for one
I meet one guy 18 years old,he had saved 35K per 2 years because live with parents and spending evenings and weekends working on local farmer fields after his official work
I asked him why did you choose that type of life in his age he looked at me and said I dont need this sht look at those guys they has nothing.
What property prices has to be in Ireland to make those young guys finally afford them ? When they prefer spend tens of thousands for car rather than on deposit for mortgage !?

MacronvFrugals

neutral guy wrote: »

I was working with many young lads on many places
Many of them live with parents paying house keeping tax
And drive cars for which they pay 400 euros per month loan
Only them cars insurances are 3-5K per year !
Some cars are worth 40/50 K most lads has phones which cost 600-1000 euros
New designer wear from 500 for hoody,runners for 200 euros,etc,etc.
Clubs,parties,take aways on weekend
And all 500-700 euros per week wage gone trough it
Tuesday morning guys does not even have fags and starting asking for one
I meet one guy 18 years old,he had saved 35K per 2 years because live with parents and spending evenings and weekends working on local farmer fields after his official work
I asked him why did you choose that type of life in his age he looked at me and said I dont need this sht look at those guys they has nothing.
What property prices has to be in Ireland to make those young guys finally afford them ? When they prefer spend tens of thousands for car rather than on deposit for mortgage !?

Yawn... the avocado toast argument

PropQueries

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

I already know of 1 IT firm who have listed their office for sale and staff are WFH 100% of the time going forward.

It's not just the IT firms.

"Bank of Ireland has decided to leave one of its major Dublin city centre offices following a push to get its staff working from home.

The company said the decision to leave Burlington Plaza 2, which is normally the base for about 700 people, was not a direct result of the Covid-19 outbreak.

However, the bank is looking to cut down on its office space and move more of its staff to remote working where possible. In an internal email, the company said it has decided to leave Burlington Plaza 2 by the end of 2020."

Link to article here: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bank-of-ireland-quits-city-centre-office-tk39txpds#:~:text=Bank%20of%20Ireland%20has%20decided,of%20the%20Covid%2D19%20outbreak.

neutral guy

Look ,we speak about affordable housing for who ?
For those who spent them young days that way ?
All new age youngsters live that kind of life
They does not have money from young days and does not have a clue how to save them !

awec

neutral guy wrote: »

Look ,we speak about affordable housing for who ?
For those who spent them young days that way ?
All new age youngsters live that kind of life
They does not have money from young days and does not have a clue how to save them !

I think you live in some alternate reality if you believe your post is indicative of young people today.

Hubertj

PropQueries wrote: »

I think the difference between London and Dublin is that many of the jobs in Dublin are back-office/ customer service jobs so are more amenable to remote working in the the long-term, probably permanently.

Many jobs in the same organisations in London, New York or Silicon Valley would probably benefit more from employees going back to the office than those in Dublin.

why are you making things up again to try and make your point? Do you even know what back office means?

Hubertj

neutral guy wrote: »

I was working with many young lads on many places
Many of them live with parents paying house keeping tax
And drive cars for which they pay 400 euros per month loan
Only them cars insurances are 3-5K per year !
Some cars are worth 40/50 K most lads has phones which cost 600-1000 euros
New designer wear from 500 for hoody,runners for 200 euros,etc,etc.
Clubs,parties,take aways on weekend
And all 500-700 euros per week wage gone trough it
Tuesday morning guys does not even have fags and starting asking for one
I meet one guy 18 years old,he had saved 35K per 2 years because live with parents and spending evenings and weekends working on local farmer fields after his official work
I asked him why did you choose that type of life in his age he looked at me and said I dont need this sht look at those guys they has nothing.
What property prices has to be in Ireland to make those young guys finally afford them ? When they prefer spend tens of thousands for car rather than on deposit for mortgage !?

you're some storyteller.

PropQueries

Hubertj wrote: »

why are you making things up again to try and make your point? Do you even know what back office means?

Worked in the IFSC many many many years ago. Has it changed?

Hubertj

PropQueries wrote: »

Worked in the IFSC many many many years ago. Has it changed?

so you're comapring IFSC with tech services? Different industries. Pure genius.

PropQueries

Hubertj wrote: »

so you're comapring IFSC with tech services? Different industries. Pure genius.

Would I be wrong in assuming that the vast majority of Google and Facebook jobs are customer service roles?

Hubertj

PropQueries wrote: »

Would I be wrong in assuming that the vast majority of Google and Facebook jobs are customer service roles?

you would be wildly incorrect in that assumption

PropQueries

Hubertj wrote: »

you would be wildly incorrect in that assumption

Maybe. So, Google employ (according to the media) c. 8,000 workers in Ireland split between c. 3,500 direct employees and c.4,500 for sub-contractors.

I haven't been in this area for a long time so maybe someone else can clarify on the current situation in relation to the type of roles in Google and Facebook?

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I did say it was an assumption.

PropQueries

Hubertj wrote: »

you would be wildly incorrect in that assumption

This is an article from 2015, so I don't know how relevant it is today. If someone can find more up to date information, it would be helpful. It states:

"The accounts show the bulk of staff during 2014, 1,809, were involved in sales and marketing, while 332 were involved in engineering and operations, and 436 were in the “general and administration” category. Total payroll costs in 2014 were €324 million, up from €273 million the previous year."

Link to Irish Times article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/google-ireland-turnover-rises-to-18-3bn-on-increased-ad-revenue-1.2409160

This is not a debate on the quality of jobs at Google or Facebook. They are quality jobs. It is a debate on whether many of the jobs are indeed back office/ customer service type roles and are more likely to be amenable to WFH than other types of roles e.g. engineering etc., which would be more likely to require such employees to be in an office environment for collaboration etc.

Hubertj

PropQueries wrote: »

This is an article from 2015, so I don't know how relevant it is today. If someone can find more up to date information, it would be helpful. It states:

"The accounts show the bulk of staff during 2014, 1,809, were involved in sales and marketing, while 332 were involved in engineering and operations, and 436 were in the “general and administration” category. Total payroll costs in 2014 were €324 million, up from €273 million the previous year."

Link to Irish Times article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/google-ireland-turnover-rises-to-18-3bn-on-increased-ad-revenue-1.2409160

This is not a debate on the quality of jobs at Google or Facebook. They are quality jobs. It is a debate on whether many of the jobs are indeed back office/ customer service type roles and are more likely to be amenable to WFH than other types of roles e.g. engineering etc., which would be more likely to require such employees to be in an office environment for collaboration etc.

So they’re neither back office nor customer service roles which you stated they were. I’m not going to school you on what other functions are delivered. Plenty of people will work from home maybe full time while others are very eager to return to office.
It’s common sense but there is no need to make stuff up to try and make your point.

Smouse156

Hubertj wrote: »

why are you making things up again to try and make your point? Do you even know what back office means?

He is right Financial Services (FS)! In FS Dublin is one giant back office. There are very few front office (revenue generating jobs) in FS. I can’t speak about tech as I don’t work in that area.

Whether they need to be in the office as much as front office roles is debatable

PropQueries

Hubertj wrote: »

So they’re neither back office nor customer service roles which you stated they were. I’m not going to school you on what other functions are delivered. Plenty of people will work from home maybe full time while others are very eager to return to office.
It’s common sense but there is no need to make stuff up to try and make your point.

I didn't make anything up Every firm has a big back office team. For example, Google has 2,000 jobs in Zurich and these are mostly in engineering, development etc. This is what I would be comparing the roles in Google Dublin to.

Link to article on Zurich roles here: https://www.businessinsider.com/google-zurich-headquarters-tour-2018-1?r=US&IR=T

This was my original post to someone else: "I think the difference between London and Dublin is that many of the jobs in Dublin are back-office/ customer service jobs so are more amenable to remote working in the the long-term, probably permanently. Many jobs in the same organisations in London, New York or Silicon Valley would probably benefit more from employees going back to the office than those in Dublin."

Your reply to this post was that I'm 'making stuff up'. I don't see where you got that idea from.

But, if that's what you believe, I can't help that. I did show you an article that appears to show that the majority of roles in Google Dublin are back office, sales or marketing roles, but maybe the Google annual accounts are made up too?.

Not much more I can do to defend my position I guess. I'll let you have the win.

mcsean2163

OwlsZat wrote: »

3rd? Any link for the league table?

In 2016, we were 2nd.

https://howmuch.net/articles/per-capita-debt

We were second three years ago too, I believe the USA has overtaken us now but cannot find the more recent graph.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/10/this-is-how-much-debt-your-country-has-per-person/

Scroll down to the second graph.

Anyway, point is that we're carrying a lot of debt for a small island country reliant on FDI that has shut down its airports.