Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

Mic 1972

The_Conductor wrote: »

Particularly in light of the risks involved in an Irish context.
Ireland is most probably one of the riskiest countries in the world for an investor to invest in residential property (from a regulatory perspective).
An investor would be of questionable intelligence if they were satisfied with a 4% ROI

The system is setup to protect tenants- but the cost of this- is insane rent levels- which may not matter for all those on the various rent support schemes- but for those renting privately- they are picking up the bill for the cost of the legislation protecting tenants- and then some.

No good deed goes unpunished.

I dont think Ireland is worst in terms of risks, there are other countries in Europe where tenants are protected even more like France or Italy
But definitely, renting out property implies huge risks

The_Conductor

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I dont think Ireland is worst in terms of risks, there are other countries in Europe where tenants are protected even more like France or Italy
But definitely, renting out property implies huge risks

France has acknowledged the legislative imbalance and commenced with a reassessment of its legislation- particularly in cases where a property owner requires a property for personal use (and has given notice to a tenant- they can have the police attend an eviction for vacant possession within 24 hours of the notice expiring).

Ireland's 2 year+ overholding regimen is very much an outlier.

thefridge2006

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/new-to-market/two-turnkey-homes-for-sale-on-same-street-as-owners-leave-dublin-1.4360651

"Two turnkey homes for sale on same street as owners leave Dublin"

looks like its started already. Didn't think i'd see it in 2020 personally as most peoples working situation is all up in the air . Makes sense really, wish i could do it myself

thefridge2006

Wicklow benefits from strong autumn new home sales

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/wicklow-benefits-from-strong-autumn-new-home-sales-1.4362258

Two articles in less than 24hrs

hometruths

thefridge2006 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/new-to-market/two-turnkey-homes-for-sale-on-same-street-as-owners-leave-dublin-1.4360651

"Two turnkey homes for sale on same street as owners leave Dublin"

looks like its started already. Didn't think i'd see it in 2020 personally as most peoples working situation is all up in the air . Makes sense really, wish i could do it myself

Can't comment on price/value, but owners of No 10 have done a cracking job on that house in my opinion.

awec

North Wicklow is essentially the exact same market as south Dublin. This is not a new phenomenon, it has been happening for years.

What that article really shows is that despite the talk of an exodus from the city to other areas, sales in the Dublin commuter belt are so far holding up well.

awec

schmittel wrote: »

Can't comment on price/value, but owners of No 10 have done a cracking job on that house in my opinion.

It's nicely done but it's basically a big apartment.

TheSheriff

schmittel wrote: »

Can't comment on price/value, but owners of No 10 have done a cracking job on that house in my opinion.

Nicely done; whopper price:eek:

sanfranbest

What's the story with this small cottage in Rathmines.

It stated it had received a bid of 485k for ages, then it stated it had received a bid of the full asking price of 525k,
the auction ended, it went sale agreed and was taken off the market

Now it's back on again and stating it has a bid of 500k

It also has a viewing this Saturday 26th Sept,,

https://www.auctioneera.ie/property/47-gulistan-cottages-rathmines-dublin-d06-e6c9

I like the concept of the Auctioneera website,,,,,,, but it's still not transparent,,,,,

Hubertj

schmittel wrote: »

Can't comment on price/value, but owners of No 10 have done a cracking job on that house in my opinion.

Agree, kitchen looks great. If only it had a garden.... I think it could be a factor in decision to sell

brisan

sanfranbest wrote: »

What's the story with this small cottage in Rathmines.

It stated it had received a bid of 485k for ages, then it stated it had received a bid of the full asking price of 525k,
the auction ended, it went sale agreed and was taken off the market

Now it's back on again and stating it has a bid of 500k

It also has a viewing this Saturday 26th Sept,,

https://www.auctioneera.ie/property/47-gulistan-cottages-rathmines-dublin-d06-e6c9

I like the concept of the Auctioneera website,,,,,,, but it's still not transparent,,,,,

Either something was found in the survey or the buyers could not draw down the mortgage because one or both the buyers was in receipt of PUP-TWSS

Danger781

Question about the PPR.. I'm looking at https://www.propertypriceregister.ie/ trying to find a house I had my eye on that went Sale Agreed. The house is not listed at the above site. Does this mean the sale hasn't actually gone through yet? Or could there be some other reason it's not listed?

Not trying to get my hopes up or anything

Edit: It went sale agreed maybe two months ago.

awec

Danger781 wrote: »

Question about the PPR.. I'm looking at https://www.propertypriceregister.ie/ trying to find a house I had my eye on that went Sale Agreed. The house is not listed at the above site. Does this mean the sale hasn't actually gone through yet? Or could there be some other reason it's not listed?

Not trying to get my hopes up or anything

Edit: It went sale agreed maybe two months ago.

It won't appear on the PPR until up to 44 days after the sale closes.

Balluba

schmittel wrote: »

Can't comment on price/value, but owners of No 10 have done a cracking job on that house in my opinion.

I would not pay €645,000 for it. There are only 2 bedrooms. The kitchen is too clinical and it could be dangerous going down those stairs to the bedroom after a few glasses of vino.

Balluba

Correction: I now see that number 10 has 3 bedrooms

pansoul

Balluba wrote: »

Correction: I now see that number 10 has 3 bedrooms

Not really - looks like they count the front reception room as a bedroom

cojomo2

awec wrote: »

It won't appear on the PPR until up to 44 days after the sale closes.

I closed a sale last week , it appeared on the register today.

Geuze

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

"It said the multinational, whose headquarters are in Cupertino, California, had been able to use two shell companies incorporated in Ireland, with the agreement of the local tax authorities, to report Europe-wide profits at effective rates well under 1% – and as low as 0.005% in 2014."

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jul/15/apple-does-not-need-to-pay-13bn-irish-tax-bill-court-rules

Am i correct in saying they paid 12.5% on Irish profits while simultaneously paying nothing on Europe wide profits?

A chunk of their profits were stateless, yes, and not taxed (yet), due to features of the US tax code.

These profits will eventually be taxed by the USA.

The slice of ASI and AOE profits that were attributed to Ireland were taxed at 12.5% by us.

The Commission argued that all of ASI and AOE profits should be taxed here.

awec

cojomo2 wrote: »

I closed a sale last week , it appeared on the register today.

Yes it's up to 44 days, it depends on how quickly your solicitor does the stamp duty returns.

Smouse156

pansoul wrote: »

Not really - looks like they count the front reception room as a bedroom

€645k for a 2-bed on the north side is delusional. No way they get it

James 007

Balluba wrote: »

I would not pay €645,000 for it. There are only 2 bedrooms. The kitchen is too clinical and it could be dangerous going down those stairs to the bedroom after a few glasses of vino.

I wouldn't either. My uncle owns one of those houses in between No. 3 & 10, won't give the exact address. Its a rental. They are poky enough houses even with the extensions. The gardens are tiny.

I don't believe they are moving because of Covid-19, they realise that the houses have limited space now as the families are growing. I observed No. 3 many times when it was been refurbished, alot of work went into it. You could buy a proper two storey house in the same area without an extension for less, refurbishing it & getting greater than 1,500 sq ft for less I'd say.;)

Good example here
https://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/drumcondra/68-home-farm-road-drumcondra-dublin-2732612/

brisan

cojomo2 wrote: »

I closed a sale last week , it appeared on the register today.

You have a very efficient solicitor

Balluba

Smouse156 wrote: »

€645k for a 2-bed on the north side is delusional. No way they get it

2 small turnkey houses with tiny gardens guaranteed to make a killing during this mini-boom

mcsean2163

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

"It said the multinational, whose headquarters are in Cupertino, California, had been able to use two shell companies incorporated in Ireland, with the agreement of the local tax authorities, to report Europe-wide profits at effective rates well under 1% – and as low as 0.005% in 2014."

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jul/15/apple-does-not-need-to-pay-13bn-irish-tax-bill-court-rules

Am i correct in saying they paid 12.5% on Irish profits while simultaneously paying nothing on Europe wide profits?

This. It's amazing how long we've got away with it but can't see EU tolerating those scams much longer.

MacronvFrugals

mcsean2163 wrote: »

This. It's amazing how long we've got away with it but can't see EU tolerating those scams much longer.

Vestager aint lying down either

From today's IT - European Commission to appeal Apple tax ruling on Friday

Although its unlikely they'll win, the case against preference has already been proven in Ireland's favour, harmonized rates are on the horizon though.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/european-commission-to-appeal-apple-tax-ruling-on-friday-1.4364385?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Ftechnology%2Feuropean-commission-to-appeal-apple-tax-ruling-on-friday-1.4364385


Another one in today's IT - Covid-19 crisis appears to strengthen French resolve for EU fiscal harmonisation

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/covid-19-crisis-appears-to-strengthen-french-resolve-for-eu-fiscal-harmonisation-1.4363925?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Fcovid-19-crisis-appears-to-strengthen-french-resolve-for-eu-fiscal-harmonisation-1.4363925

<SNIP>

Graham

Mod Note

MacronvFrugals please don't lift entire articles and paste them here.

Leozord

mcsean2163 wrote: »

This. It's amazing how long we've got away with it but can't see EU tolerating those scams much longer.

worth to remember - in 2013 Apple declared that 2/3 of its total revenue came from Ireland/EU

there's even a documentary about it

cnocbui

mcsean2163 wrote: »

This. It's amazing how long we've got away with it but can't see EU tolerating those scams much longer.

The EU show no signs of taking on VRT, so I'm not so sure.

Assetbacked

India will be the next country to feel the green meat of the Leprechaun rooting around inside its economy on behalf of the big tech MNCs expanding their operations there. The bulking up of Indian employees in Dublin points to plans to justify this practice by providing that there is a significant operational presence in Ireland justifying shifting revenues from India through the jurisdiction.

Why is that relevant to Irish property? Continued Big Tech success in Ireland in terms of employee numbers, offsetting some economic fallout from covid, meaning some new source of demand for rentals.

mcsean2163

Leozord wrote: »

worth to remember - in 2013 Apple declared that 2/3 of its total revenue came from Ireland/EU

there's even a documentary about it

Yep, if I'd be really annoyed if I lived in continental Europe. Facilitating US giants paying no tax is not cool. China banned them in 2009, that seems ott but they should be taxed like there's no tomorrow as they're destroying global local industry.

Anyway bit off topic except to say if it happens, the property market would likely experience a significant shock!