Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

Smouse156

Lolle06 wrote: »

You should understand that you pay property tax on your family home, as well as any investment property in Ireland. Property tax would be included in the rent charged by the landlord. Vulture funds are paying very little tax on their income. The government should start taxing them more, before they raise the property tax on family homes/ rentals (tenants will have to pay for it after all).

Property tax included in the rent is nonsense! The vulture fund will charge whatever it can, irrespective of property tax. Simple as! Yes it increases their cost base slightly, however, as they are already making a killing and pay no tax I doubt they could complain

MacronvFrugals

Property taxes are among the most progressives taxes there is

awec

People realise that the property tax in Ireland was opposed by the leftist parties, right? You can't slate the government on this one.

SF want it abolished completely.

The property tax sounded great until these parties realized that their voters would be expected to pay their share as well, particularly their voters living in high-value inner-city housing, and then all of a sudden it wasn't so great.

Lolle06

Smouse156 wrote: »

Property tax included in the rent is nonsense! The vulture fund will charge whatever it can, irrespective of property tax. Simple as! Yes it increases their cost base slightly, however, as they are already making a killing and pay no tax I doubt they could complain

Why is that nonsense? Every private landlord is of course including the tax he pays for the property into the rent. He will also have to pay tax on the rental income. I am not talking about the Vulture Funds with their special treatment by the government.

MacronvFrugals

SF wanting to abolish property tax

FG creating a situation where REITS are saying "It’s a great market, we’ve never seen rental increases like this in any jurisdiction that we’re aware of" while also paying buttons in tax.

We're a mad country all the same folks.

PropQueries

Cyrus wrote: »

it wont be.

dundrum isnt ballsbridge.

Well, Cairn Homes "has agreed in principle a €30.175 million deal to sell 61 apartments to Dublin City Council for social housing from its planned development on former RTÉ lands at Donnybrook, Dublin.".

That site is backing onto Ailesbury Road in Ballsbridge.

And also nearby "Developers of a planned luxury apartment scheme for Herbert Park in Dublin 4 are proposing to sell 10 apartments for €5.88 million to Dublin City Council for social housing.

The McSharry Kennedy families are proposing to construct a 12 storey block that will contain 105 apartments in a project called ’40 Park’ on a site overlooking Herbert Park in Ballsbridge."

Link to Herbert Park development here: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-31004306.html

Just to add. Given that the whole purpose of spending €800k+ on an apartment or renting an apartment for €2,500+ per month is not to be near "poor people", I would believe most of these units will be social housing in the near future.

Pelezico

Lolle06 wrote: »

What do you mean with „lucky enough“? We didn’t win our house in some sort of lottery! We worked and saved for years to be able to buy it. Nobody helped us along the way.
I care for other beings too. I give the few left over Euros to charities. One thing doesn’t exclude the other.
Who reduces our „cost of housing“? Tell you who: No one!

That philosophy is classic SF. Tax anyone who owns a house heavily and give the money to those deemed deserving of help. It is populist and might work on the naive and desperate.

SF has no worthwhile economic policies. When I see them being interviewed, I think of thugs and psychopaths.

Balluba

PropQueries wrote: »

I don't know. From looking at streetview in the map section of the MyHome page, the estate looks like many other middle class 3-bed semi detached tree lined estates in Dublin. There aren't many places in Dublin that aren't located within a short walk of the so-called bad areas. But, as said, I don't know this area, so I'll go by your judgement.

Better to make your own mind up based on your own research rather than go by a random strangers judgment

Smouse156

Lolle06 wrote: »

Why is that nonsense? Every private landlord is of course including the tax he pays for the property into the rent. He will also have to pay tax on the rental income. I am not talking about the Vulture Funds with their special treatment by the government.

Well I was specifically replying to a comment on vulture funds that the cost would be passed on, however, if market rents rose and property tax dropped, what is the landlord going to do? Pass on the drop to the tenant...no he’s going to Jack the rent as much as he can.

It’s an extra cost yes but if it’s done properly, then the landlord will likely pay less for his rental property when buying, hence controlling cost.

We have 52% marginal tax on income and virtually zero tax on wealth which is idiotic in my opinion! We incentivise emigration and land hoarding. I would prefer to see lower income taxes and high wealth taxes for a better society overall.

MacronvFrugals

Pelezico wrote: »

That philosophy is classic SF. Tax anyone who owns a house heavily and give the money to those deemed deserving of help. It is populist and might work on the naive and desperate.

SF has no worthwhile economic policies. When I see them being interviewed, I think of thugs and psychopaths.

Lol psychopaths, dont you want the arse to fall out of the economy so your son can get a discounted gaf?

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

Well, Cairn Homes "has agreed in principle a €30.175 million deal to sell 61 apartments to Dublin City Council for social housing from its planned development on former RTÉ lands at Donnybrook, Dublin.".

That site is backing onto Ailesbury Road in Ballsbridge.

And also nearby "Developers of a planned luxury apartment scheme for Herbert Park in Dublin 4 are proposing to sell 10 apartments for €5.88 million to Dublin City Council for social housing.

The McSharry Kennedy families are proposing to construct a 12 storey block that will contain 105 apartments in a project called ’40 Park’ on a site overlooking Herbert Park in Ballsbridge."

Link to Herbert Park development here: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-31004306.html

yes thats the normal 10%, little different but i suspect you know that and are being deliberately obtuse.

Pelezico

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Lol psychopaths, dont you want the arse to fall out of the economy so your son can get a discounted gaf?

I dont want SF in power. That is a bridge too far for me. They still represent people with whom I have nothing in common.

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

Just to add. Given that the whole purpose of spending €800k+ on an apartment or renting an apartment for €2,500+ per month is not to be near "poor people", I would believe most of these units will be social housing in the near future.

you understand 10% of all new schemes requires social housing?

none of these schemes will be mostly social housing, thats bordering on the idiotic.

PropQueries

Cyrus wrote: »

yes thats the normal 10%, little different but i suspect you know that and are being deliberately obtuse.

Not obtuse at all. As you know, they normally agree to build or buy units in another area in order to get around that rule. And, given that the whole purpose of spending €800k+ on an apartment or renting an apartment for €2,500+ per month is not to be near "poor people", I would believe most of these units will be social housing in the near future.

Hubertj

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Lol psychopaths, dont you want the arse to fall out of the economy so your son can get a discounted gaf?

i think it is an apt description of SF. Take David Cullinane as an example - he is SF health spokesperson and apparently cares about the health of people in this country. However, he happily shouted up the RA when elected - heralding the IRA which murdered women and children and executed members of Garda. I don't understand that.

Back to housing, SF simply want to create a welfare state and turn Ireland into a socialist wasteland. They will tax corporations and "higher earners" out of the country.

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

Not obtuse at all. As you know, they normally agree to build or buy units in another area in order to get around that rule. And, given that the whole purpose of spending €800k+ on an apartment or renting an apartment for €2,500+ per month is not to be near "poor people", I would believe most of these units will be social housing in the near future.

you used to be able to do that, its not allowed any more, and hasnt been for a few years.

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

Not obtuse at all. As you know, they normally agree to build or buy units in another area in order to get around that rule. And, given that the whole purpose of spending €800k+ on an apartment or renting an apartment for €2,500+ per month is not to be near "poor people", I would believe most of these units will be social housing in the near future.

if you believe that can you give any reason then why honeypark / cualanor in dun laoghaire which has houses for 800k+ and includes its 10% element of social isnt mostly social housing?

PropQueries

Cyrus wrote: »

you understand 10% of all new schemes requires social housing?

none of these schemes will be mostly social housing, thats bordering on the idiotic.

Given that Dermot Desmond has already referred to them as "Ballymun Towers South Dublin", do you believe many potential buyers with €800k+ to spend on an apartment will be interested now?

PropQueries

Cyrus wrote: »

if you believe that can you give any reason then why honeypark / cualanor in dun laoghaire which has houses for 800k+ and includes its 10% element of social isnt mostly social housing?

Aren't many of the apartments in Honeypark owned by a German pension fund? Do you not think they will eventually take the easy way and just rent them in bulk to the council in the same way as Herbert Hill?

"Patrizia buys 319 Nama-funded multifamily apartments on old Dún Laoghaire golf course "

Link here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/german-group-pays-132m-for-buy-to-let-apartment-scheme-1.3165200

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

Given that Dermot Desmond has already referred to them as "Ballymun Towers South Dublin", do you believe many potential buyers with €800k+ to spend on an apartment will be interested now?

yes, do you think people will be that offended by the glib comment of a billionaire?

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

Aren't many of the apartments in Honeypark owned by a German pension fund? Do you not think they will eventually take the easy way and just rent them in bulk to the council in the same way as Herbert Hill?

"Patrizia buys 319 Nama-funded multifamily apartments on old Dún Laoghaire golf course "

Link here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/german-group-pays-132m-for-buy-to-let-apartment-scheme-1.3165200

they could do, it still wont make it mostly social housing.

PropQueries

Cyrus wrote: »

they could do, it still wont make it mostly social housing.

It will over time though. If there is any anti-social behaviour or other bad press, potential buyers/renters will start looking elsewhere.

PropQueries

Cyrus wrote: »

yes, do you think people will be that offended by the glib comment of a billionaire?

Yes I do. Such buyers/renters always have other options and most don't like risk.

MacronvFrugals

Very nice discounts to be had at the ultra high-end of the market or were they living in delusion looking for 9 million here?

Killiney estate back on market at 40% discount seeking €5.5m

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/killiney-estate-back-on-market-at-40-discount-seeking-5-5m-1.4374390?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Flife-and-style%2Fhomes-and-property%2Fkilliney-estate-back-on-market-at-40-discount-seeking-5-5m-1.4374390

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

It will over time though. If there is any anti-social behaviour or other bad press, potential buyers/renters will start looking elsewhere.

they are all mostly sold, so all the people living there will sell and itll be come a social housing scheme,

give me a break :rolleyes:

Cyrus

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Very nice discounts to be had at the ultra high-end of the market or were they living in delusion looking for 9 million here?

Killiney estate back on market at 40% discount seeking €5.5m

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/killiney-estate-back-on-market-at-40-discount-seeking-5-5m-1.4374390?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Flife-and-style%2Fhomes-and-property%2Fkilliney-estate-back-on-market-at-40-discount-seeking-5-5m-1.4374390

yes thats the end where prices havent really recovered at all, anything over 5m is a hard sell.

and in killiney / dalkey no sea views is an even harder sell.

PropQueries

Cyrus wrote: »

they are all mostly sold, so all the people living there will sell and itll be come a social housing scheme,

give me a break :rolleyes:

Well good look to them whenever the current buyers do decide to sell again

MacronvFrugals

Cyrus wrote: »

yes thats the end where prices havent really recovered at all, anything over 5m is a hard sell.

and in killiney / dalkey no sea views is an even harder sell.

Do you think it will sell @€;5.5 million?

Geuze

OwlsZat wrote: »

These are some of the things I'd hope Sinn Fein can deliver where FFG have chosen not to.

- A functioning property tax
- A derelict site tax
- A land hoarding tax
- Setting up councils to build or subcontract building of homes
- Reduction in tax on building homes
- A proper process for buying homes
- Elimination of CC building caps

LPT exists already. SF plan to abolish it, even though it is a sensible tax.

Vacant Site levy exists already, although has problems.

Tax on building homes - you mean 13.5% VAT?

Geuze

Vieira82 wrote: »

people should probably understand the meaning of houses is not the meaning of buying a single house Property tax like it works on other countries is for people with more than one house, so taxing holiday homes rental properties and so on...
..

Property tax in USA, UK, France applies where owners own one house.

France has two taxes:

owner tax
occupiers tax