Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

cnocbui

Cyrus wrote: »

there will still be transfer pricing arrangements.

You mean tax avoidance.

Cyrus

brisan wrote: »

Childcare gets cheaper as it disappears
Nephew drops the child to school and picks him up
Before it was to a childminder at 8 and picked up at 6 with the child minder doing the school runs
They both work around it
Transport at least 30 a week PP on leap card
No work clothes required
Most women I know would have a separate wardrobe of work clothes which would be updated regularly

i dont get this notion that childcare is no longer a requirement if you are working from home, you are either working and the children need care, or you are defrauding your employer and not doing a full days work, which isnt sustainable and falls apart at mid terms and over the summer.

unlimited dart or bus is a net cost of 70 a month per person if you have a tax saver ticket and pay the marginal rate of tax, anyone paying any more should examine their spending.

the only women i know well enough to comment on her clothes spending has replaced spending on work clothes with spending on non work clothes.

anyone this is a totally different point im not sure what we are debating.

the main saving anyone can make is on childcare and im suspicious at how significant savings can be made if people arent taking the proverbial.

Cyrus

cnocbui wrote: »

You mean tax avoidance.

its actually the opposite.

Danzy

Cyrus wrote: »

i dont get this notion that childcare is no longer a requirement if you are working from home, you are either working and the children need care, or you are defrauding your employer and not doing a full days work, which isnt sustainable and falls apart at mid terms and over the summer.

unlimited dart or bus is a net cost of 70 a month per person if you have a tax saver ticket and pay the marginal rate of tax, anyone paying any more should examine their spending.

the only women i know well enough to comment on her clothes spending has replaced spending on work clothes with spending on non work clothes.

anyone this is a totally different point im not sure what we are debating.

the main saving anyone can make is on childcare and im suspicious at how significant savings can be made if people arent taking the proverbial.

You haven't really experience in this.

Cyrus

Danzy wrote: »

You haven't really experience in this.

experience in what?

cnocbui

Cyrus wrote: »

its actually the opposite.

No it isn't.

Newspapers use the phrase "transfer pricing" as shorthand for multinational corporations shifting profits to tax havens to avoid tax in developed countries.
...
Non-governmental organizations argue that transfer pricing deleteriously affects the budgets of developing countries that lack the administrative resources to fight with well-represented multinationals. Christian Aid estimates that developing countries lose $160 billion of tax revenue annually to transfer pricing.

https://www.forbes.com/2010/06/24/tax-finance-multinational-economics-opinions-columnists-lee-sheppard.html#4550bd186346

Cyrus

cnocbui wrote: »

No it isn't.


https://www.forbes.com/2010/06/24/tax-finance-multinational-economics-opinions-columnists-lee-sheppard.html#4550bd186346

the effect of transfer pricing on mnc's is that you pay tax in every jurisdiction that you have a taxable presence in. Obviously you will ensure that you pay the most tax in lower tax locations but you still have to pay a certain amount in higher tax jurisdictions within the frameworks that exist.

Your group transfer pricing policy can be challenged and scrutinised by any of the jurisdictions so it makes sense to have such that it will stand up to such scrutiny.

so despite what newspapers might say thats the reality.

cnocbui

Cyrus wrote: »

the effect of transfer pricing on mnc's is that you pay tax in every jurisdiction that you have a taxable presence in. Obviously you will ensure that you pay the most tax in lower tax locations but you still have to pay a certain amount in higher tax jurisdictions within the frameworks that exist.

Your group transfer pricing policy can be challenged and scrutinised by any of the jurisdictions so it makes sense to have such that it will stand up to such scrutiny.

so despite what newspapers might say thats the reality.

So it's tax avoidance under the guise of misusing the phrase 'tax minimisation'.

There was an absolute classic in the UK papers a few years ago. They mentioned Starbucks had paid a thimbulfull of tax on a bathtub full of income - the first tax they had paid in the UK in over ten years. All achieved by 'buying' their beans from their subsidiary in Switzerland at sky high prices.

Despite being technically insolvent for over a decade, it then mentioned the company was looking to open 300 or so new outlets in the UK. Which of course is what every insolvent company does.

Pull the other one, it plays Money, by the Flying Lizards.

Cyrus

cnocbui wrote: »

So it's tax avoidance under the guise of misusing the phrase 'tax minimisation'.

There was an absolute classic in the UK papers a few years ago. They mentioned Starbucks had paid a thimbulfull of tax on a bathtub full of income - the first tax they had paid in the UK in over ten years. All achieved by 'buying' their beans from their subsidiary in Switzerland at sky high prices.

Despite being technically insolvent for over a decade, it then mentioned the company was looking to open 300 or so new outlets in the UK. Which of course is what every insolvent company does.

Pull the other one, it plays Money, by the Flying Lizards.

those days are effectively over or on their way out with the advent of CbCR and Beps

https://www.oecd.org/tax/beps/about/

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-european-division-of-starbucks-paid-28-uk-tax-last-year-2018-9?r=US&IR=T#:~:text=Starbucks'%20UK%20headquartered%20businesses%20paid,UK%20for%20its%20tax%20affairs.

brisan

Cyrus wrote: »

those days are effectively over or on their way out with the advent of CbCR and Beps

https://www.oecd.org/tax/beps/about/

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-european-division-of-starbucks-paid-28-uk-tax-last-year-2018-9?r=US&IR=T#:~:text=Starbucks'%20UK%20headquartered%20businesses%20paid,UK%20for%20its%20tax%20affairs.

I think a multinational company with billions in sales and manufacturing bases all over the world can afford accountants who know their way around these tax laws better than anybody on here will

awec

https://twitter.com/RTENewsAtOne/status/1316003421443497984

Dwarf.Shortage

awec wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RTENewsAtOne/status/1316003421443497984

How on earth are they going to build units for €52k a piece

awec

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

How on earth are they going to build units for €52k a piece

I think the tweet is misleading. I think what McGrath said was he'd deliver 9500 social units next year, and that the 500m for direct-build social units was part of that.

I was only half listening to it on the tv when making some lunch, so could have picked it up wrong.

fliball123

I tell you one thing the government are not cutting anything and are doubling down all of those saying the place is going to plummet into Armageddon and property prices with it will not be happy with this budget

Cyrus

brisan wrote: »

I think a multinational company with billions in sales and manufacturing bases all over the world can afford accountants who know their way around these tax laws better than anybody on here will

maybe stop guessing about things you have no experience in.

tigger123

fliball123 wrote: »

I tell you one thing the government are not cutting anything and are doubling down all of those saying the place is going to plummet into Armageddon and property prices with it will not be happy with this budget

There is absolutely no political appetite for austerity this time round.

Pascal's gonna make it rain!

cnocbui

Cyrus wrote: »

those days are effectively over or on their way out with the advent of CbCR and Beps

https://www.oecd.org/tax/beps/about/

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-european-division-of-starbucks-paid-28-uk-tax-last-year-2018-9?r=US&IR=T#:~:text=Starbucks'%20UK%20headquartered%20businesses%20paid,UK%20for%20its%20tax%20affairs.

The US didn't sign the BEPS agreement and probably never will.

Ministers and high-level officials from 76 countries signed, or formally expressed their intention to sign, the multilateral convention designed to reduce the opportunity for tax avoidance by multinational enterprises. Notably, the United States is not a signatory to the Convention.

https://rsmus.com/what-we-do/services/tax/international-tax-planning/multilateral-convention-on-treaty-measures-to-prevent-beps-is-si.html

Cyrus

cnocbui wrote: »

The US didn't sign the BEPS agreement and probably never will.

https://rsmus.com/what-we-do/services/tax/international-tax-planning/multilateral-convention-on-treaty-measures-to-prevent-beps-is-si.html

whats your point?

Dwarf.Shortage

Cyrus wrote: »

whats your point?

If the US aren't aboard it will struggle to become the accepted western standard for accounting/tax calculating.

Cyrus

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

If the US aren't aboard it will struggle to become the accepted western standard for accounting/tax calculating.

its very much in effect here in europe, where you will find a lot of US MNCs have emea headquarters, who are liable to tax in those jurisdictions.

TheSheriff

Kasey_Don wrote: »

Housing crisis started in 2013. Nearly 8 years later and this is the state of the housing market. A new build in Leixlip for ****ing 385k.
https://www.daft.ie/kildare/new-homes-for-sale/barnhall-meadows-leixlip-kildare-156467/

It's an absolute disgrace what FG have done to this country and it's young people.


Only the rich can avail of the help to buy.

I really hate FG. They have ****ed young peoples lives for nearly a decade.

We viewed barnhall last year, to be honest if it was anywhere closer to Dublin we likely would have gone for it, thought they were really nice builds, the surrounds were nice, tiny gardens tough and really over looked! At least the showhouses were anyway.

We were there for phase I (maybe phase ii) and it was a bit of madness, we tried to ask a few Qs of the EA on the day and were basically told submit them by email, that if we were not putting down a deposit they didn't have time. Most of the good ones , aspect, end of terrace were sold on the day but I did notice the not as desirable houses for hanging about for several months after.

Dwarf.Shortage

Is there any way of finding out about developments due on stream in 2021 or is it a case of checking MyHome etc regularly?

Cyrus

Kasey_Don wrote: »

They may be nice but Leixlip is a nothing town. The best thing is that it's close to other towns.

I assumed they're not finished or furnished so you'll have to spend another 10-20k on it.

very few houses, new or second hand will come furnished.

Cyrus

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Is there any way of finding out about developments due on stream in 2021 or is it a case of checking MyHome etc regularly?

irish times property section normally summarises them once a month or so.

Springy Turf

Cyrus wrote: »

very few houses, new or second hand will come furnished.

Yah - sometimes you can buy the show house, but you will be charged for the contents.

Bubbaclaus

Kasey_Don wrote: »

Only the rich can avail of the help to buy.

Can you explain what this means? Help to buy only applies to properties under 500k, which I doubt the "rich" have any interest in buying for their first home.

TheSheriff

Kasey_Don wrote: »

They may be nice but Leixlip is a nothing town. The best thing is that it's close to other towns.

I assumed they're not finished or furnished so you'll have to spend another 10-20k on it.

Each to their own, I personally agree with you, lexslip wasn't for us, but there are obviously alot.of people who could afford these properties who thought it was nice enough. I thought the size / proportions were good. One of the nicer new builds we viewed. A bit of a walk from the train if I remember.

You have two train stops, it's essentially an extension of Dublin.

PropQueries

Ok, did anyone spot anything in the budget that may impact on the property market in either direction? HTB was already well flagged. Seems to me, nothing much has changed from the situation that existed last week.

Normally there's small items that aren't noticed but do make an impact. But, from a quick look, nothing seems out of the ordinary.

Dwarf.Shortage

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Can you explain what this means? Help to buy only applies to properties under 500k, which I doubt the "rich" have any interest in buying for their first home.

If you look at a cheap new build in Dublin/commuter belt you're talking €400k, lets say 410 because it makes the salary multiple at the end round.

Knock off 30k HTB and same again for own deposit you have a mortgage of €350k which requires an income of €100k. For a single applicant FTB that is extremely high, more achievable for a couple.

I think they mean high income rich not asset rich.

Graham

The type of property you're talking about at €410k is a 3 or 4 bed family home which would always have been a stretch for single buyers.