Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

Bass Reeves

Duke of Url wrote: »

They should scrap private landlords letting to tenants directly.

IMO renting accommodation should be via letting agency’s only

Adds cost into a system and tenant ends up paying anyway.
It happening anyway they are called REIT'S

hometruths

Bass Reeves wrote: »

More modest limits on HAP will have what ever landlords are doing it to exit. Risk v Reward with HAP tenants is borderline anyway, extra costs involved for landlord with HAP are making landlord involvement borderline anyway. Tenants are making up shortfall anyway


Tax treatment of landlords is harsh on this country anyway. Legitimate expenses that are allowed in other businesses are refused to landlords. As is landlords are willing to do long-term leases with councils if they accept the tenant risks



You really seem to have an issue wit Airbnb's if you deregulate a market you cannot have its and bits. Airbnb's are a reaction to risk/reward by some LL's. If Airbnb's are completely removed from RPZ's you will be left with a short term rental issues which effect business and tourism




If you are right about the level of vacent properties what you propose would cause a property price collapse in that type of property. In most cases CGT may not be an issue anyway. And even if it was piece collapse by dumping would negate any benefit from it. If I owned one I've staying put



Bla Bla Bla, again more and more regulation in a deregulation plan



CGT not an issue with selling private residences, the reason people do not is because poor available options in the areas they live in and even if there is no margin in it



Sounds good in theory but we have howls about government's overpaying for loan books.bthese loans were bought in packages which means it's impossible to disassemble



Sounds good but you are throwing a private banking problem onto the taxpayer.



So the government take the crappy ones and banks reposses the valuable ones



This failed to work in the US however in the last property crash. Deregulation and banking has caused problems whenever they are hand in hand. Bonuses are too much of a temptation to banking executives



You could go on and on but your plan is not an option in the reality of politics

Why not? What political impediment is there against any of the above?

Graham

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You really seem to have an issue wit Airbnb's if you deregulate a market you cannot have its and bits. Airbnb's are a reaction to risk/reward by some LL's. If Airbnb's are completely removed from RPZ's you will be left with a short term rental issues which effect business and tourism

I don't think hotel accommodation is going to be an issue for quite some time.

Graham

Mod Note

some posts moved to the "Alternative Financing for the Property Market?" thread.

PropQueries

enricoh wrote: »

Surely the only thing keeping house prices from falling is the government buying so many. Can't find the link but government money bought every second house sold in new estates this year in Dublin and 40% nationally.
With big financial potholes to fill with covid and brexit these figures can't be sustained - can they ?!!

You're backed up by an article in the Irish Independent, but they split it between the State and PRS funds:

"Instead of building, the State last year bought one in four of the privately built new homes as turnkey projects. It's also paying too much for them and pricing first time buyers out of the market. Of 19,000 completions last year, [of which 5,000 were one-off houses] bulk purchases by the State and the PRS funds left maybe 8,000 units for everyone else. People priced out of buying a house then compete to lease apartments, but rents are artificially high because one in four new tenants are State subsidised."

Link to article in Irish Independent: https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/will-budget-2021-finally-address-the-housing-market-crisis-failures-39599386.html

fliball123

Idbatterim wrote: »

We have left wing governance here from fg, except one cohort who they claim to represent, get done on housing. Ill take my chances with sf doing something on housing at this rate, as an ex fg voter...

Well before you do and I am no FG supporter just have a look at the broken promises as well as the housing situation and the welfare situation SF have governed in the north.

sandy2020

Hello All,

I am starting to search for property. Have a question regarding property viewing. With movement mostly limited to own county , is property viewing allowed now?

I am from Kildare and if i want to view a property in Meath, can i travel?

Milena009

sandy2020 wrote: »

Hello All,

I am starting to search for property. Have a question regarding property viewing. With movement mostly limited to own county , is property viewing allowed now?

I am from Kildare and if i want to view a property in Meath, can i travel?

my understanding is that housing is essential purpose so should be allowed however best to probably ring up the EA to make sure

fliball123

sandy2020 wrote: »

Hello All,

I am starting to search for property. Have a question regarding property viewing. With movement mostly limited to own county , is property viewing allowed now?

I am from Kildare and if i want to view a property in Meath, can i travel?

I reckon worst case you could just say to the garda that your planning to move and you have to see a property where your going all they can say is no

PropQueries

In yesterday's Government press release 'Minister O’Brien announces €3.1 billion housing budget'. On top of this, it was announced '€1.4 billion investment in water services'

I know that over the past 30 years, many sites in towns around the country that were zoned residential couldn't achieve planning permission due to lack of adequate water services e.g. 'lack of wastewater treatment capacity' is a primary reason for not approving planning permission for new housing in many towns around the country.

Granted, water treatment plants are needed but shouldn't they be forcing developers to build housing where there is already adequate wasterwater treatment capacity?

Basically, is this €1.4 billion "investment" in water services just a back-door bailout for FF landowners down the country? I guess we will learn the answer to that question from where they decide to "invest".

It's just a thought and I won't put my tin foil hat on just yet...

Link to Government press release here: https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/96dba-minister-obrien-announces-31-billion-housing-budget/

cnocbui

sandy2020 wrote: »

Hello All,

I am starting to search for property. Have a question regarding property viewing. With movement mostly limited to own county , is property viewing allowed now?

I am from Kildare and if i want to view a property in Meath, can i travel?

Put a pile of shopping bags on the passenger seat. You are going shopping, after all, even if it wouldn't fit in a bag.

Wanderer78

PropQueries wrote: »

In yesterday's Government press release 'Minister O’Brien announces €3.1 billion housing budget'. On top of this, it was announced '€1.4 billion investment in water services'

I know that over the past 30 years, many sites in towns around the country that were zoned residential couldn't achieve planning permission due to lack of adequate water services e.g. 'lack of wastewater treatment capacity' is a primary reason for not approving planning permission for new housing in many towns around the country.

Granted, water treatment plants are needed but shouldn't they be forcing developers to build housing where there is already adequate wasterwater treatment capacity?

Basically, is this €1.4 billion "investment" in water services just a back-door bailout for FF landowners down the country? I guess we will learn the answer to that question from where they decide to "invest".

It's just a thought and I won't put my tin foil hat on just yet...

Link to Government press release here: https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/96dba-minister-obrien-announces-31-billion-housing-budget/

we also need to be investing in building homes with overall water reduction usage systems in place, grey water etc

sandy2020

Thanks for the reply.
Checked with EA, his response was if you can get to the property, i can show you.

wassie

PropQueries wrote: »

In yesterday's Government press release 'Minister O’Brien announces €3.1 billion housing budget'. On top of this, it was announced '€1.4 billion investment in water services'

I know that over the past 30 years, many sites in towns around the country that were zoned residential couldn't achieve planning permission due to lack of adequate water services e.g. 'lack of wastewater treatment capacity' is a primary reason for not approving planning permission for new housing in many towns around the country.

Granted, water treatment plants are needed but shouldn't they be forcing developers to build housing where there is already adequate wasterwater treatment capacity?

Basically, is this €1.4 billion "investment" in water services just a back-door bailout for FF landowners down the country? I guess we will learn the answer to that question from where they decide to "invest".

It's just a thought and I won't put my tin foil hat on just yet...

Link to Government press release here: https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/96dba-minister-obrien-announces-31-billion-housing-budget/

You may be right in part, but I would say its more in response to decades of failure by successive governments to maintain and invest in water infrastructure, compounded in part by the water charge debacle. The increase in boiling water notices and interruptions to water supply experienced over the last few years affect rural & urban, new & established areas alike.

PropQueries

wassie wrote: »

You may be right in part, but I would say its more in response to decades of failure by successive governments to maintain and invest in water infrastructure, compounded in part by the water charge debacle. The increase in boiling water notices and interruptions to water supply experienced over the last few years affect rural & urban, new & established areas alike.

100% agree. Nothing really done since independence. However, I did read an interesting analysis last year about how the cost of building a new estate in e.g. Kildare, Meath or Wicklow is actually more expensive than building a new estate in Co. Dublin when the cost of upgrading the roads, rail networks, water treatment plants etc. to cater for the new households are added into the equation.

fliball123

sandy2020 wrote: »

Hello All,

I am starting to search for property. Have a question regarding property viewing. With movement mostly limited to own county , is property viewing allowed now?

I am from Kildare and if i want to view a property in Meath, can i travel?

Where in Meath is it?

KennisWhale

https://thecurrency.news/articles/26631/booking-a-write-down-eason-pulls-property-sale-as-iconic-store-drop-40-in-value/

"Eason has written down the value of its remaining properties including its iconic O’Connell Street store in Dublin 1 from €46 million to €27.6 million because of Covid-19".

Whatever about the residential market where it is clear there is demand combined with relatively low individual leverage, commercial property looks goosed, particularly bricks and mortar retail.

Milena009

Hi guys,

Quick question about fees outside of the deposit.

I know that properties (new builds) have booking deposit which is refundable when HTB kick in for developer.

What fees / percentages of them are a given?

Like solicitor / stamp duty etc?


Asking on example of 320k property in Kildare.

Thank you

TheSheriff

KennisWhale wrote: »

https://thecurrency.news/articles/26631/booking-a-write-down-eason-pulls-property-sale-as-iconic-store-drop-40-in-value/

"Eason has written down the value of its remaining properties including its iconic O’Connell Street store in Dublin 1 from €46 million to €27.6 million because of Covid-19".

Whatever about the residential market where it is clear there is demand combined with relatively low individual leverage, commercial property looks goosed.

Commercial property will indeed suffer most I feel.

Irrespective of the above, I think eason's are goosed in general, they've failed to adapt with the times. Cannot remember the last time I went to an eason's to buy anything, everything is available easily and far cheaper elsewhere (thinking online for books, the likes of tiger / euro stores for stationary etc)

HopsAndJumps

The new Somerton house in Adamstown are going on sale Friday. The 3 beds start at 365k. I got a shock!

The Newpark ones started at 315k

Interested Observer

Milena009 wrote: »

Hi guys,

Quick question about fees outside of the deposit.

I know that properties (new builds) have booking deposit which is refundable when HTB kick in for developer.

What fees / percentages of them are a given?

Like solicitor / stamp duty etc?


Asking on example of 320k property in Kildare.

Thank you

Stamp duty is 1% of the purchase price. A solicitor I'd budget maybe 1.5-2.5k for.

PropQueries

Yara Rich Camouflage wrote: »

What happens with these units then if unused for retail? do people see them just laying idle or possible some can/will be converted for different use?

That's a good question. Years ago the site/property owners could just sit on them for years in the belief (justified in many cases), that there would always be some level of demand for their sites/properties from retail, office or hotel use etc.

Internet shopping, WFH etc. has turned that future potential use on its head. If they can't develop them, who will buy them and for what use?

Maybe someone can clarify how long before they are required to wait before they must write down the values on their books? I'm assuming extending and pretending won't wash with many investors going forward.

Timing belt

Yara Rich Camouflage wrote: »

What happens with these units then if unused for retail? do people see them just laying idle or possible some can/will be converted for different use?

They will probably lie idle or they will tweet permissions to let Restraunt or bars take over but that will mean they are idle with covid. Office space could be converted to flats

Timing belt

PropQueries wrote: »

That's a good question. Years ago the site/property owners could just sit on them for years in the belief (justified in many cases), that there would always be some level of demand for their sites/properties from retail, office or hotel use etc.

Internet shopping, WFH etc. has turned that future potential use on its head. If they can't develop them, who will buy them and for what use?

Maybe someone can clarify how long before they are required to wait before they must write down the values on their books? I'm assuming extending and pretending won't wash with many investors going forward.

All these properties are owned by funds who will need to book an impairment charge for the leases.

virginmediapls

HopsAndJumps wrote: »

The new Somerton house in Adamstown are going on sale Friday. The 3 beds start at 365k. I got a shock!

The Newpark ones started at 315k

Jaysus christ don't come to Adamstown. I live here and it's going to the dogs i mo thuairim fein.

Edit: You'd want to be cracked to even consider €365k here as well !!

wassie

PropQueries wrote: »

100% agree. Nothing really done since independence. However, I did read an interesting analysis last year about how the cost of building a new estate in e.g. Kildare, Meath or Wicklow is actually more expensive than building a new estate in Co. Dublin when the cost of upgrading the roads, rail networks, water treatment plants etc. to cater for the new households are added into the equation.

Not surprising as once upon a time all of the necessary infrastructure for land development was supplied by the state or local authority. However the system has slowly migrated to a user pays system with cost shifting onto the end user. Hence this will cost more in less established areas. I would state this is a broad generalisation however and there will always be local circumstances in play.

mcsean2163

virginmediapls wrote: »

Jaysus christ don't come to Adamstown. I live here and it's going to the dogs i mo thuairim fein.

Edit: You'd want to be cracked to even consider €365k here as well !!

Maybe they're set at that price for the state to purchase?

Seems a lot...

sandy2020

fliball123 wrote: »

Where in Meath is it?

Drogheda

cnocbui

Dutch home prices jumped in the third quarter as a shortage of properties enabled the market to shrug off an economic contraction.

The median-weighted transaction price climbed 11.6% on an annual basis to 354,000 euros ($416,000), realtors association NVM reported on Thursday. In Amsterdam, the country’s biggest city, there was an 8% increase.

“Consumers hardly have anything to choose from any more,” NVM Chairman Onno Hoes said in a statement. “The housing market really needs more supply to keep housing affordable for a large number of people.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-15/dutch-home-prices-jump-as-the-market-overcomes-economic-weakness?srnd=premium-europe

Reminds me of another country, the name of which escapes me; give me a minute, it's sure to come to me...

Dwarf.Shortage

I'm actually heartened for the first time in a long time that steps in the right direction are afoot. If the increased funding to build social housing removes or even materially reduces the extent of the government out bidding people trying to purchase private housing things should improve a bit supply wise.

It's not a panacea and I don't think there is one, but it will help.