Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

handlemaster

<SNIP>

Cyrus

Turns out multi nationals do want people back at the office and want to know when it’ll be possible.

Colour me shocked

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/multinational-firms-tell-tanaiste-they-are-very-keen-for-staff-to-return-to-offices-39717163.html

poker--addict

Needing certain employees and teams in the office and wanting all staff in the office are very different things.

They do want people on Irish contracts to be in the jurisdiction though.

Which all makes sense.

jive

Trump2016_ wrote: »

Just wondering what you would suggest for me.

I am living in one part of the country but from a different part. I plan on moving back home eventually in maybe 2/3/4 years.

I rent and I am single. I was thinking of buying 2nd hand (couldn't afford new) where I live currently, eventually selling and buying new in a few years.

But then if I did that I would lose the potential Help to Buy money if I was to buy new back home eventually.

Anyone in the same boat or have any suggestions?

Just run the numbers. If you buy now, will you potentially build more equity than you would save via the help to buy (assuming it’s still around in a few years)?

If it’s only 2 years it probably makes more sense to keep renting as you likely won’t close on a property for 6 months. If realistically it’s more than 2 years then you would probably be better off foregoing the benefits of HTB, as numbers wise and quality of life wise it probably will make sense to buy in that case.

Cyrus

poker--addict wrote: »

Needing certain employees and teams in the office and wanting all staff in the office are very different things.

They do want people on Irish contracts to be in the jurisdiction though.

Which all makes sense.

To listen to some on here the whole country will be wfh forever , it’s not going to happen, there will be more flexibility for sure but employers want people back in the office .

jon1981

Cyrus wrote: »

To listen to some on here the whole country will be wfh forever , it’s not going to happen, there will be more flexibility for sure but employers want people back in the office .

100% agree. Work from home will be a very limited thing, 4 or 3 days a week in the office minimum.

M256

jon1981 wrote: »

100% agree. Work from home will be a very limited thing, 4 or 3 days a week in the office minimum.

Those who want to sell tiny apartments for crazy money in ugly places like the Docklands will do anything to push people back to useless offices.

jon1981

M256 wrote: »

Those who want to sell tiny apartments for crazy money in ugly places like the Docklands will do anything to push people back to useless offices.

There isn't a one size fits all model. Some jobs can be done fully at home, most alittle at home and the rest not at all.

It's too premature for companies to be declaring a full time work from home policy. Alot of productivity and engagement level measuring still to be done.

Also the few companies that have declared permanent work from home have said its an option. There's no doubt there's small print. US companies are great at this marketing, it's like "unlimited leave" policies that are in place for many US tech firms, the reality is very different!

JimmyVik

poker--addict wrote: »

Needing certain employees and teams in the office and wanting all staff in the office are very different things.

They do want people on Irish contracts to be in the jurisdiction though.

Which all makes sense.

Mine wants certain staff in asap and all staff back in the office as soon as the pandemic is over.

combat14

3 days in office 2 days at home be ideal

TheSheriff

Cyrus wrote: »

Turns out multi nationals do want people back at the office and want to know when it’ll be possible.

Colour me shocked

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/multinational-firms-tell-tanaiste-they-are-very-keen-for-staff-to-return-to-offices-39717163.html

More shocked PropQueries hasn't pounched on this and tried to discredit it.


Work in pharma myself, applied for a job two weeks ago and got a call from their recruiter for an initial screen.

It would be a middle management job, one of the first Qs was my need/desire to WFH and to make it clear the company would likely be offering one day per week max when this all ends, and staff are wanted back in the office.

PropQueries

jon1981 wrote: »

100% agree. Work from home will be a very limited thing, 4 or 3 days a week in the office minimum.

I don’t think WFH will be a limited thing. The single biggest employer in Dublin is the state and they’ve already committed to 20% of their staff working remotely:

“With the Government already committed to having 20 per cent of the public service working remotely, and with more employees wishing to do so in light of the pandemic, it says there are “real opportunities” to re-examine the State’s approach to office accommodation to realise savings for the Exchequer.”

Link to Irish Times here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/state-urged-to-review-opw-office-leases-in-light-of-covid-crisis-1.4401158?mode=amp

TheSheriff

PropQueries wrote: »

I don’t think WFH will be a limited thing. The single biggest employer in Dublin is the state and they’ve already committed to 20% of their staff working remotely:

“With the Government already committed to having 20 per cent of the public service working remotely, and with more employees wishing to do so in light of the pandemic, it says there are “real opportunities” to re-examine the State’s approach to office accommodation to realise savings for the Exchequer.”

Link to Irish Times here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/state-urged-to-review-opw-office-leases-in-light-of-covid-crisis-1.4401158?mode=amp

Or put another way, public sector staff will be allowed work from home one day per week....

PropQueries

In case everyone missed it:

“Maynooth University has advised that given the likely trends in the public health situation, it will not return to large group teaching on campus for the remainder of the academic year.”

Link to Irish Independent here: https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/universities-tell-students-no-return-to-campus-next-semester-39715065.html

How will this impact the local Maynooth rental market over the next 2 months. And there will be a lot more additional student accommodation beds completed between now and next October to add to the thousands that have been added over the past couple of years in Dublin.

UCD is borrowing €500 Million to build thousands of student beds etc. which will bring thousands of existing three-bed semis currently rented to students back into the regular rental market.

We’re still going to build c. 20,000 residential units this year despite Covid-19.

JimmyVik

TheSheriff wrote: »

Or put another way, public sector staff will be allowed work from home one day per week....

And it will come in some time around when metro north does

JimmyVik

PropQueries wrote: »

In case everyone missed it:

“Maynooth University has advised that given the likely trends in the public health situation, it will not return to large group teaching on campus for the remainder of the academic year.”

Link to Irish Independent here: https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/universities-tell-students-no-return-to-campus-next-semester-39715065.html

How will this impact the local Maynooth rental market over the next 2 months. And there will be a lot more additional student accommodation beds completed between now and next October to add to the thousands that have been added over the past couple of years in Dublin.

UCD is borrowing €500 Million to build thousands of student beds etc. which will bring thousands of existing three-bed semis currently rented to students back into the regular rental market.

We’re still going to build c. 20,000 residential units this year despite Covid-19.

I think its kinda funny.
The government go and ban normal property owners from doing short term lets. Now they are going to allow huge amounts of apartments to go into short term let.

PropQueries

TheSheriff wrote: »

Or put another way, public sector staff will be allowed work from home one day per week....

I don’t think they will invest in a remote working strategy if it only resulted in employees working from home one day a week.

If they’re investing in such a strategy (and they already are and it has already been proven to work), it will mean they’re in the office a maximum of 2 or 3 days a week and then gradually moving up to full time working from home.

Hubertj

We’re never returning to the office. It’s WFH forever. 1.5 day working week. If employees want to go to the office, their employers will charge them for the pleasure. Offices will be converted to holiday villages as we will never be allowed to fly again. People will rent 2 one bed apartments, using 1 as an office. Why didn’t anyone think of this before.

TheSheriff

PropQueries wrote: »

I don’t think they will invest in a remote working strategy if it only resulted in employees working from home one day a week.

If they’re investing in such a strategy (and they already are and it has already been proven to work), it will mean they’re in the office a maximum of 2 or 3 days a week and then gradually moving up to full time working from home.

You don't understand the public sector.

If you think there will be mixed entitlements across the PS you are incorrect. It will have to be all or nothing. John and Mary won't be allowed WFH if Paul and Karen have to be in the office.

The PS is not designed to be agile. Currently those PS employees working from home don't have access to flexitime, while those in the office do. This is causing considerable annoyance.

It will likely be a blanket offering of 1 day per week for the PS, for every employees, rotating the days so every day 20% of the workforce is WFH.

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

I don’t think they will invest in a remote working strategy if it only resulted in employees working from home one day a week.

If they’re investing in such a strategy (and they already are and it has already been proven to work), it will mean they’re in the office a maximum of 2 or 3 days a week and then gradually moving up to full time working from home.

You keep saying it has been proven to work

By whom ? And what’s the barometer of success ?

PropQueries

Hubertj wrote: »

We’re never returning to the office. It’s WFH forever. 1.5 day working week. If employees want to go to the office, their employers will charge them for the pleasure. Offices will be converted to holiday villages as we will never be allowed to fly again. People will rent 2 one bed apartments, using 1 as an office. Why didn’t anyone think of this before.

It appears many people here still appear to be on the first stage of grief in relation to WFH and it’s impact on both commercial and residential real estate values in Dublin.

The five stages are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

I would believe most people will reach the fifth and final stage within the next 6 months or so.

But I have noticed many posters here have already reached stage two

The smarter ones have reached stage three. These are the build to rent crowd currently begging the local authorities to lease their empty apartments off them

I would believe a few have already reached stage 5 and are currently selling before it’s too late.

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

It appears many people here still appear to be on the first stage of grief in relation to WFH and it’s impact on both commercial and residential real estate values in Dublin.

The five stages are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

I would believe most people will reach the fifth and final stage within the next 6 months or so.

But I have noticed many posters here have already reached stage two

The smarter ones have reached stage three. These are the build to rent crowd currently begging the local authorities to lease their empty apartments off them

I would believe a few have already reached stage 5 and are currently selling before it’s too late.

From professing to not having an opinion a few months back you appear to have landed on a firm position.

Graham

PropQueries wrote: »

The five stages are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

I would believe most people will reach the fifth and final stage within the next 6 months or so.

But I have noticed many posters here have already reached stage two

Mod Note

quit the trolling

Do not reply to this post.

Hubertj

PropQueries wrote: »

It appears many people here still appear to be on the first stage of grief in relation to WFH and it’s impact on both commercial and residential real estate values in Dublin.

The five stages are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

I would believe most people will reach the fifth and final stage within the next 6 months or so.

But I have noticed many posters here have already reached stage two

The smarter ones have reached stage three. These are the build to rent crowd currently begging the local authorities to lease their empty apartments off them

I would believe a few have already reached stage 5 and are currently selling before it’s too late.

And then there is stage 0 which is failure to comprehend. Stage 6 would be stupidity to think full time wfh for all. I won’t suggest who is at those stages.
Interesting read https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/multinational-firms-tell-tanaiste-they-are-very-keen-for-staff-to-return-to-offices-39717163.html


Am sure boards experts know better though.

For me I’ll probably do Friday at home and go to the office Monday through Thursday. I can open a beer 30 mins early

jon1981

PropQueries wrote: »

I don’t think WFH will be a limited thing. The single biggest employer in Dublin is the state and they’ve already committed to 20% of their staff working remotely:

“With the Government already committed to having 20 per cent of the public service working remotely, and with more employees wishing to do so in light of the pandemic, it says there are “real opportunities” to re-examine the State’s approach to office accommodation to realise savings for the Exchequer.”

Link to Irish Times here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/state-urged-to-review-opw-office-leases-in-light-of-covid-crisis-1.4401158?mode=amp

So they're supporting what i said?

PropQueries

Cyrus wrote: »

From professing to not having an opinion a few months back you appear to have landed on a firm position.

A lot has changed much faster than many would have predicted even a few months ago. WFH is now a very real option for many employers/employees in Dublin which is primarily a service based economy.

If a big university such as Maynooth and UL can move to primarily remote working for 18 months, most office based services can complete the changeover much much easier.

PropQueries

Hubertj wrote: »

And then there is stage 0 which is failure to comprehend. Stage 6 would be stupidity to think full time wfh for all. I won’t suggest who is at those stages.
Interesting read https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/multinational-firms-tell-tanaiste-they-are-very-keen-for-staff-to-return-to-offices-39717163.html


Am sure boards experts know better though.

For me I’ll probably do Friday at home and go to the office Monday through Thursday. I can open a beer 30 mins early

Why would your company invest significant resources in WFH so their staff can WFH one day a week?

If they’re investing in WFH technologies and processes, they’re most likely going to want a return on that investment i.e. less leased office space etc. Their staff working from home just every Friday won’t result in the savings required to justify such an investment so they’ll most likely want their staff to WFH at least 2 days a week.

TheSheriff

PropQueries wrote: »

A lot has changed much faster than many would have predicted even a few months ago. WFH is now a very real option for many employers/employees in Dublin which is primarily a service based economy.

If a big university such as Maynooth and UL can move to primarily remote working for 18 months, most office based services can complete the changeover much much easier.

There's literally an article linked above stating MNCs want staff back in the office. This has far more implications for the irish property market than any of the 'ifs' and 'mights' and 'maybes' or opinions you've posted over the past eight months.

Yet your ignoring it.

It it was different, that they don't want them back, youd have linked it several times both here and on the propertypin.

Hubertj

PropQueries wrote: »

Why would your company invest significant resources in WFH so their staff can WFH one day a week?

If they’re investing in WFH technologies and processes, they’re most likely going to want a return on that investment i.e. less leased office space etc. Their staff working from home just every Friday won’t result in the savings required to justify such an investment so they’ll most likely want their staff to WFH at least 2 days a week.

Employers won’t mandate how many days per week you wfh. Only a fool would think that. My employer is increasing its office space in Dublin to accommodate more staff. There will be no shared desks, everyone gets their own desk. Policy hasn’t been defined but it’s been made clear people can go to Ireland five as many days per week as they want and there won’t be full time wfh. It’s about flexibility.
What wfh technologies need to be invested in? Most employers had DR plans so people can all wfh if required.
How many people live in places that are suitable for wfh? Can you have a permanent desk in a stupid or 1 bed? Can everyone afford a 2 bed and use the spare room as an office? What about people in house shares? 4 people in a 4 bed house? How does that work?

PropQueries

TheSheriff wrote: »

There's literally an article linked above stating MNCs want staff back in the office. This has far more implications for the irish property market than any of the 'ifs' and 'mights' and 'maybes' or opinions you've posted over the past eight months.

Yet your ignoring it.

It it was different, that they don't want them back, youd have linked it several times both here and on the propertypin.

Just last week the commercial director of Microsoft Ireland said the following:

“People talk about this Covid-related remote working being something exceptional and that we’ll soon return to normal,” said Aisling Curtis, commercial director for Microsoft Ireland. “But I don’t think that we’re going back to what we used to regard as being normal.”

Link here: https://m.independent.ie/business/technology/microsoft-research-predicts-a-permanent-irish-office-exodus-39704093.html

Given that Dublin is primarily a services and not manufacturing based economy, it just takes a small percentage of employers to embrace WFH to significantly impact on both the commercial and residential real estate markets in the city.