Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

M256

Cyrus wrote: »

That’s not what the article is about and it’s not that long the least you could do is read it before making an ill informed comment

And the answer to your second question is in my case at least a firm no

Impaired team-work as well as legal and tax issues over staff working remotely from home countries were cited as reasons companies want employees back at their office desks.


Reads to me like they are concerned about legal and tax implications since many of foreign staff went to their home countries to work remotely. The part about team work is questionable at least. Working in a global environment where majority of your colleagues and customers would be in other countries has been around for decades and now with high speed broadband, Teams, Zoom, working remotely is easier than ever.

TheSheriff

M256 wrote: »

Impaired team-work as well as legal and tax issues over staff working remotely from home countries were cited as reasons companies want employees back at their office desks.


Reads to me like they are concerned about legal and tax implications since many of foreign staff went to their home countries to work remotely. The part about team work is questionable at least. Working in a global environment where majority of your colleagues and customers would be in other countries has been around for decades and now with high speed broadband, Teams, Zoom, working remotely is easier than ever.

It literally says back at their office desks....

M256

TheSheriff wrote: »

It literally says back at their office desks....

Yes, to keep their foreign staff in Ireland due to tax reasons. Otherwise it would be just working remotely from a (very expensive) rented apartment.

woejus

Hubertj wrote: »

Perhaps the poster is saying an additional €3k per month on top of whatever else they were saving. I think anyone who is fortunate enough to be in secure employment during 2020 would be able to make additional savings...

Agreed, my point was there will be a cohort of people with "warchests" competing for the same limited supply. EAs will be rinsing them all next year, setting them against each other to raise final sale prices.

I hope supply picks up to meet this demand.

I would also agree that this thread has become difficult to read and follow of late.

Cyrus

M256 wrote: »

Yes, to keep their foreign staff in Ireland due to tax reasons. Otherwise it would be just working remotely from a (very expensive) rented apartment.

I disagree but regardless of your interpretation as to why they want people back in the office.

It amounts to the same thing.

Pelezico

woejus wrote: »

Agreed, my point was there will be a cohort of people with "warchests" competing for the same limited supply. EAs will be rinsing them all next year, setting them against each other to raise final sale prices.

I hope supply picks up to meet this demand.

I would also agree that this thread has become difficult to read and follow of late.

Estate agents wont rinse anyone. The almighty market will dictate everything. Suggesting that all these techies making lots of dosh are at the mercy if savvy estate agents is ridiculous.

M256

Cyrus wrote: »

I disagree but regardless of your interpretation as to why they want people back in the office.
It amounts to the same thing.

I don't think it is the same thing as it applies only to a (small) segment of the entire work force. Those who have no reason to be outside of Ireland (including foreign nationals) could happily work from home and not waste hours a day commuting to the proverbial Docklands.


There is a bigger concern though. The current tax regime is essentially based on the idea of physical presence of workers in the office (MNCs create jobs in Ireland in exchange for tax benefits). But the proliferation of remote work may eventually force MNCs to rethink the need for such a deal with Ireland while other countries may offer something more competitive without the need for physical offices.

woejus

Pelezico wrote: »

Estate agents wont rinse anyone. The almighty market will dictate everything. Suggesting that all these techies making lots of dosh are at the mercy if savvy estate agents is ridiculous.

"there's another bidder interested"
"raise your bid by 10k or the other bidder gets the property"

Are you aware of how a mediated market works? Agents have an incentive to maximise returns for their customer (the vendors), at the expense of buyers. Or are you suggesting that "techies" have some visibility into the market not available to mere mortals?

smurgen

Cyrus wrote: »

I disagree but regardless of your interpretation as to why they want people back in the office.

It amounts to the same thing.

At the start of all this you were playing down the wfh potential. Rubbished any possibility of it. It's fair to say now you were wrong for the most part. WFH is a success and will remain a large part of working life for many multinationals going forward. When lockdown lifted again we didn't see people return to office. If they hated wfh that much we would have.

Pelezico

woejus wrote: »

"there's another bidder interested"
"raise your bid by 10k or the other bidder gets the property"

Are you aware of how a mediated market works? Agents have an incentive to maximise returns for their customer (the vendors), at the expense of buyers. Or are you suggesting that "techies" have some visibility into the market not available to mere mortals?

A mediated market? It's the housing market....with plenty of transparency over recent sales.

The estate agent wants a sale....and fast.

The market will decide the price...not the estate agent, rinsing everyone.

donnaille

Cyrus wrote: »

That’s not what the article is about and it’s not that long the least you could do is read it before making an ill informed comment

And the answer to your second question is in my case at least a firm no

It might have been good to follow your own advice on reading an article when posting the link to the wfh article earlier where firms requested guidance on when offices could be reopened to being ‘some’ people back.

Cyrus

smurgen wrote: »

At the start of all this you were playing down the wfh potential. Rubbished any possibility of it. It's fair to say now you were wrong for the most part. WFH is a success and will remain a large part of working life for many multinationals going forward. When lockdown lifted again we didn't see people return to office. If they hated wfh that much we would have.

Ah the bould smurgen , bought a house for peanuts yet ? No didn’t think so.

How do you reckon wfh is a success ? How are you gauging it? Funnily the leaders of some of our most important Mncs appear to disagree .

When lockdown is over we will see people return to the office , absolutely . You are conveniently forgetting the guidance to wfh where possible never lifted, when it does come back to me.

Cyrus

donnaille wrote: »

It might have been good to follow your own advice on reading an article when posting the link to the wfh article earlier where firms requested guidance on when offices could be reopened to being ‘some’ people back.

What did I say contrary to this ?

woejus

Pelezico wrote: »

A mediated market? It's the housing market....with plenty of transparency over recent sales.

The estate agent wants a sale....and fast.

The market will decide the price...not the estate agent, rinsing everyone.

Humour me... how does "the market" decide the price?
There is zero transparency into the current bidding. It's not like a market for a fungible asset like a stock or currency. I can't see, and certainly your son can't see, what the actual demand is for a particular property without going through... an estate agent.

The only live visibility into current bidding on a property is if it's an auction which are vanishingly rare for some reason, do you wonder why that is?

LuasSimon

Hard to know how people can keep affording the high prices of property . There’s not a housing crisis there’s a AFFORDABILITY crisis .

M256

LuasSimon wrote: »

Hard to know how people can keep affording the high prices of property . There’s not a housing crisis there’s a AFFORDABILITY crisis .

They take a 30 year mortgage and pay 3K a month for the rest of their lives

awec

M256 wrote: »

They take a 30 year mortgage and pay 3K a month for the rest of their lives

I'm guessing you've never bought a property?

3k a month over 30 years would get you a serious gaff.

smurgen

Cyrus wrote: »

Ah the bould smurgen , bought a house for peanuts yet ? No didn’t think so.

How do you reckon wfh is a success ? How are you gauging it? Funnily the leaders of some of our most important Mncs appear to disagree .

When lockdown is over we will see people return to the office , absolutely . You are conveniently forgetting the guidance to wfh where possible never lifted, when it does come back to me.

Full service of clients, no client complaints. Fully operational from home. Our office has downsized now. Boss terminated a 160 person office lease and we've gone for 100 instead outside the city. You really don't have a clue what's going on. Let's be honest.

Bubbaclaus

awec wrote: »

I'm guessing you've never bought a property?

3k a month over 30 years would get you a serious gaff.

Wouldn't be far off the one million mark.

Cyrus

smurgen wrote: »

Full service of clients, no client complaints. Fully operational from home. Our office has downsized now. Boss terminated a 160 person office lease and we've gone for 100 instead outside the city. You really don't have a clue what's going on. Let's be honest.

Smurgen when the grown ups decide what’s happening and who works from where you’ll do as your told, just because you want something to happen doesn’t mean that it will.

The leaders of our largest mncs know less than you according to your logic .

Why did your company bother taking an office at all if everyone working from home is working so well?

cubatahavana

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Wouldn't be far off the one million mark.

75 sqm three bed in Foxrock, then?

Cyrus

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Wouldn't be far off the one million mark.

750k mortgage at 2.5 percent so with a 20 percent deposit almost at a million.

lcwill

PropQueries wrote: »

I fully understand how some people currently working from home being annoyed about working in their spare bedroom, kitchen etc.

But, equally, it’s only been c. 9 months. How long before people start investing a relatively small amount of money in converting their attic space etc. into a proper WFH space.

This will make WFH a lot more bearable for many people currently living in 3 bed semis where the attic hasn’t been converted yet.

This can all happen in a very short period of time and then working from home 3 days a week becomes bearable and the norm going forward.

Long term it's not about WFH, it's about co-working. I did WFH for a year in the past, and the novelty wore off and eventually I was happy to pay for a desk in a co-working space - it gives structure to the day, social interaction, separates work space from home space, and is the best of all worlds - more relaxed than going to the office, and there are co-working spaces everywhere (or at least there will be) so you can live where you want and have a short commute.

M256

awec wrote: »

I'm guessing you've never bought a property?

3k a month over 30 years would get you a serious gaff.

Would you call it a serious gaff? Just a random example from daft.ie
https://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/dundrum/75-highfield-park-dundrum-dundrum-dublin-2812613/

lalababa

TheSheriff wrote: »

Em, because in terms of the residential property price index there haven't been any falls in the property market?

Lots of fall in Kerry & West Cork. I'd assume that's a bell weather for ALL rural. Cork City holding up however....(maybe people with cash think it's time to buy now..also supply is low)

Cyrus

M256 wrote: »

Would you call it a serious gaff? Just a random example from daft.ie
https://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/dundrum/75-highfield-park-dundrum-dundrum-dublin-2812613/

I also picked this at random what’s the point ?

https://www.daft.ie/12612207

smurgen

Cyrus wrote: »

Smurgen when the grown ups decide what’s happening and who works from where you’ll do as your told, just because you want something to happen doesn’t mean that it will.

The leaders of our largest mncs know less than you according to your logic .

Why did your company bother taking an office at all if everyone working from home is working so well?

Point went over your head . You wouldn't cut it in a multinational. Manager of 18 here so I'm one of the ones who gets to decide who can WFH.

Cyrus

smurgen wrote: »

Point went over your head

It really didn’t , run along now good lad, haven’t you some nonsense to post in the politics forum ?

Cyrus

smurgen wrote: »

Point went over your head . You wouldn't cut it in a multinational. Manager of 18 here so I'm one of the ones who gets to decide who can WFH.

Sure you are

smurgen

Cyrus wrote: »

Sure you are

Yep. And you are? You genuinely seem to have little insight into how proper multinationals work. Unless you're working for some dodgy crowd like Savills?