The decline of Irish journalism

Wibbs

TheCitizen wrote: »

I’ve given the examples above. Do you want me to keep repeating them just for you.

Common courtesy would suggest a link to said examples, not just "above", because your last few posts have given none beyond the usual vagueness.

Invidious

TheCitizen wrote: »

LOL. Another exhibit

Wibbs is a far-right exhibit now?

TheCitizen

Invidious wrote: »

As far as you're concerned, anyone who disagrees with the progressive/woke party line is some alt-right or far-right acolyte. If you can't see how detached from reality this perception is, you have my sympathy.

Nope. I’m saying in the real world of politics in Ireland there isn’t the desire for the anti progressive anti woke commentary that you see on here across several threads in the current affairs and politics forums. It is you and your Alt Right pals on here that are detached from reality. You won’t be happy till you turn this place into an echo chamber. You’re as irrelevant and as marginalised as the National Party or Renua or Aontu.

TheCitizen

Wibbs wrote: »

Common courtesy would suggest a link to said examples, not just "above", because your last few posts have given none beyond the usual vagueness.

My pleasure Wibbs, go to the comments I have made in this thread for further examples. I hope that will be of some help to you

Wibbs

Invidious wrote: »

Wibbs is a far-right exhibit now?

Oh I'm a complete nazi didn't you know. Who happens to believe in free healthcare, education for all and an increase in social housing, gender equality, LGBT rights and a host of other "leftie" things. Must be where the socialist in national socialist comes from...

Invidious

TheCitizen wrote: »

It is you and your Alt Right pals on here that are detached from reality. You won’t be happy till you turn this place into an echo chamber. You’re as irrelevant and as marginalised as the National Party or Renua or Aontu.

What's your basis for labeling me "alt-right"? And who are my "pals"?

TheCitizen

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Pat Kenny faux outrage at Mary Lou not have if downloaded the Covid app. With all that going on in FF, FG and greens he had to grasp at that. Lol, this kind of biased “journalism” encourages me to vote Sinn Fein again at the next election for only the second time ever.

There are real examples of bias from MSM journalists like Pat Kenny as you point out there. Miriam O’Callaghan is another one, chairing a TV election debate attacking the SF representative while her brother is a prominent representative of an opposing party.

On here though it’s all about obsessing about progressivism and woke etc. etc. Some of the boys on here living in an Alt Right bubble.

TheCitizen

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh I'm a complete nazi didn't you know. Who happens to believe in free healthcare, education for all and an increase in social housing, gender equality, LGBT rights and a host of other "leftie" things. Must be where the socialist in national socialist comes from...

Really? What are you arguing with me for so. You keep asking me to link to examples of what I’m talking about. Read what I’m saying for your examples.

Invidious

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Pat Kenny faux outrage at Mary Lou not have if downloaded the Covid app.

If Mary Lou intends to keep attending large IRA funerals à la Bobby Storey, she may not wanting an app keeping track of the people she's interacting with.

Wibbs

TheCitizen wrote: »

My pleasure Wibbs, go to the comments I have made in this thread for further examples. I hope that will be of some help to you

Having to trawl through for me 19 pages of posts looking for the clear examples you claim are all too obvious is not going to happen.

Wibbs

TheCitizen wrote: »

Really? What are you arguing with me for so. You keep asking me to link to examples of what I’m talking about. Read what I’m saying for your examples.

You're saying sweet Fanny Adams beyond there are alt right wingers everywhere.

Invidious

TheCitizen wrote: »

Really? What are you arguing with me for so. You keep asking me to link to examples of what I’m talking about. Read what I’m saying for your examples.

If you actually had examples, there would be no need for all this circumlocutory prevarication.

KiKi III

Wibbs wrote: »

So no examples then?

Almost every thread in CA has far right opinions, from abolishing/ drastically reducing social welfare (thread: how to break the cycle of welfare), to anti-abortion stances such as “stay celibate if you’re unwilling to have children” (two years on from abortion referendum); rampant transphobia across multiple threads (Graham Linehan, JK Rowling), multiple anti-immigration threads (what is your opinion on multiculturalism) and those are just off the top of my head.

TheCitizen

Invidious wrote: »

What's your basis for labeling me "alt-right"? And who are my "pals"?

You’re throwing out the usual tropes; anti progressive, anti woke etc etc. The stuff that alt right and far right come out with all the time. You’re now backtracking and coming out all wide eyed with; “why are you labelling me alt right”?

For me and I would suggest most of the electorate given the way we vote in Ireland, progressive and woke are good things, whereas you and others round here throw those labels around as if it’s a slur. You’re losing touch with reality.

TheCitizen

Invidious wrote: »

If you actually had examples, there would be no need for all this circumlocutory prevarication.

I’ve given you examples. Read my posts for examples, but you don’t want to know about that.

TheCitizen

Wibbs wrote: »

You're saying sweet Fanny Adams beyond there are alt right wingers everywhere.

You’re not reading what I’m saying. Attack the posts not the poster eh wibbs. Calm down there son.

Wibbs

KiKi III wrote: »

Almost every thread in CA has far right opinions, from abolishing/ drastically reducing social welfare (thread: how to break the cycle of welfare), to anti-abortion stances such as “stay celibate if you’re unwilling to have children” (two years on from abortion referendum); rampant transphobia across multiple threads (Graham Linehan, JK Rowling), multiple anti-immigration threads (what is your opinion on multiculturalism) and those are just off the top of my head.

I'd streamline social welfare alright as it's incredibly wasteful at the moment and too often is taking the piss out of PAYE workers and breaking the cycle of welfare is a good thing surely? That's "far right"? I'd be pro choice. I'm pro LGBT rights, but of late the nonsense coming from the T part is getting bloody ridiculous and increasingly extreme, nay crazy pills time. And yes I'm most certainly anti the current and failed multiculturalist politic/religion, but not against controlled immigration of people who will add to the country. I am most certainly for open discussion and questioning of these current "certainties", rather than just blind acceptance. That BTW is how all rights end up being examined and granted in the first place. This apparently makes me "far right". Jesus.

blanch152

Invidious wrote: »

If Mary Lou intends to keep attending large IRA funerals à la Bobby Storey, she may not wanting an app keeping track of the people she's interacting with.

It is not attending funerals that bothers her, it is the tracking of her being summonsed to meetings in Belfast with the rest of the boys that she doesn't want tracked.

TheCitizen

Wibbs wrote: »

Having to trawl through for me 19 pages of posts looking for the clear examples you claim are all too obvious is not going to happen.

Don’t bother so. I don’t care. Wibbs

Wibbs

TheCitizen wrote: »

You’re not reading what I’m saying. Attack the posts not the poster eh wibbs. Calm down there son.

I'm "attacking" you posts, or lack of them. I'm not attacking you. Learn the difference maybe(though this is an all too common tactic of those who paint themselves into a corner. Claim personal attack. Ramp it up to "bullying" for extra effect. Kill debate. Result).

Like I said you're saying bugger all and repeatedly and can't answer a simple question put to you. Read my posts is not an answer. Kiki above is an example of someone actually making a point. Take their lead.

TheCitizen

blanch152 wrote: »

It is not attending funerals that bothers her, it is the tracking of her being summonsed to meetings in Belfast with the rest of the boys that she doesn't want tracked.

LOL. Turning into another anti SF thread now.

According to the thread title it was supposed to be about the decline in Irish journalism. A thread that promised much by way of a discussion about the changing environment for journalism but instead turned into another thread attacking progressivism and “woke” etc. and now morphing into another anti SF rant.

sid waddell

KiKi III wrote: »

Almost every thread in CA has far right opinions, from abolishing/ drastically reducing social welfare (thread: how to break the cycle of welfare), to anti-abortion stances such as “stay celibate if you’re unwilling to have children” (two years on from abortion referendum); rampant transphobia across multiple threads (Graham Linehan, JK Rowling), multiple anti-immigration threads (what is your opinion on multiculturalism) and those are just off the top of my head.

They're straight out of the Charles Koch/James Buchanan US Republican party playbook. Koch and Buchanan were extremely clear when discussing matters of media and political strategy among their cabal of anarcho-capitalist loons that they they would lie as to their real aims, which was to destroy all forms of social security and regulation, and create a Lord Of The Flies type society of the ultra rich versus serfs.

This is now by far the dominant ideology of the Republican party.

Similarly here, we have a cabal of far right posters who are entirely disingenuous as to their real aims for society, because if they voiced them, they know they'd get thrown off the forum, because they're essentially white supremacist, fascist views.

On the topic of the thread, journalism is in trouble because of the capitalist ideology of cut, cut, cut and working the ever diminishing group of remaining staff to the bone, often on stupid things which are more about keeping their employer's publication in the public eye such as social media presence.

Journalism costs money.

Let's be clear here though - both right-wing and fascist ideology utterly opposes and despises the concept of actual journalism because those of such ideology hate scrutiny.

You have to ask yourself, why would the fascist, racist, shamelessly corrupt and traitorous Donald Trump hate journalism?

Why would the corrupt, racist Boris Johnson hate journalism?

Why would the Nazi-loving Irish fascist Justin Barrett and his small band of cultists (many of whom populate this forum) hate journalism?

TheCitizen

Wibbs wrote: »

I'm "attacking" you posts, or lack of them. I'm not attacking you. Learn the difference maybe(though this is an all too common tactic of those who paint themselves into a corner. Claim personal attack. Ramp it up to "bullying" for extra effect. Kill debate. Result).

Like I said you're saying bugger all and repeatedly and can't answer a simple question put to you. Read my posts is not an answer. Kiki above is an example of someone actually making a point. Take their lead.

I’m saying plenty Wibbs. You just admitted that you can’t be bothered reading it. If you’re not going to bother reading what I’ve said what are you arguing with me about Wibbs.

Read my posts is THE answer to your query. You’re asking me for examples, the examples are in the posts I’ve already made on the thread. Is this difficult for you Wibbs?

TheCitizen

sid waddell wrote: »

They're straight out of the Charles Koch/James Buchanan US Republican party playbook. Koch and Buchanan were extremely clear when discussing matters of media and political strategy among their cabal of anarcho-capitalist loons that they they would lie as to their real aims, which was to destroy all forms of social security and regulation, and create a Lord Of The Flies type society of the ultra rich versus serfs.

This is now by far the dominant ideology of the Republican party.

Similarly here, we have a cabal of far right posters who are entirely disingenuous as to their real aims for society, because if they voiced them, they know they'd get thrown off the forum, because they're essentially white supremacist, fascist views.

On the topic of the thread, journalism is in trouble because of the capitalist ideology of cut, cut, cut and working the ever diminishing group of remaining staff to the bone, often on stupid things which are more about keeping their employer's publication in the public eye such as social media presence.

Journalism costs money.

Let's be clear here though - both right-wing and fascist ideology utterly opposes and despises the concept of actual journalism because those of such ideology hate scrutiny.

You have to ask yourself, why would the fascist, racist, shamelessly corrupt and traitorous Donald Trump hate journalism?

Why would the corrupt, racist Boris Johnson hate journalism?

Why would the Nazi-loving Irish fascist Justin Barrett and his small band of cultists (many of whom populate this forum) hate journalism?

Good post.

And uncomfortable reading for certain posters on here no doubt.

Invidious

KiKi III wrote: »

Almost every thread in CA has far right opinions, from abolishing/ drastically reducing social welfare (thread: how to break the cycle of welfare), to anti-abortion stances such as “stay celibate if you’re unwilling to have children” (two years on from abortion referendum); rampant transphobia across multiple threads (Graham Linehan, JK Rowling), multiple anti-immigration threads (what is your opinion on multiculturalism) and those are just off the top of my head.

At a time when Ireland is spending over €21 billion a year on social welfare, arguing that the welfare system is excessively generous, open to abuse, and needs to be reformed is hardly far-right. Centre-right, perhaps, but not far-right.

Being pro-life in Ireland is usually a traditionalist Catholic stance, not a far-right one. A third of the population voted not to repeal the 8th amendment, and I very much doubt that a third of Irish people are on the far-right.

JK Rowling's concern appears to be treating transgender people with respect but without sacrificing the safety, dignity, and lived experience of actual women. She doesn't want biological men in women's bathrooms, and she objects to replacing terms like "pregnant women" with "people who are pregnant" — but that surely doesn't make her far-right.

For the most part, people do not get riled up about admitting honest hard-working immigrants into their country. But especially when immigration contributes to increased criminality and welfare dependency, people do have a legitimate right to be concerned, and that doesn't make them "far-right."

KiKi III

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd streamline social welfare alright as it's incredibly wasteful at the moment and too often is taking the piss out of PAYE workers and breaking the cycle of welfare is a good thing surely? That's "far right"? I'd be pro choice. I'm pro LGBT rights, but of late the nonsense coming from the T part is getting bloody ridiculous and increasingly extreme, nay crazy pills time. And yes I'm most certainly anti the current and failed multiculturalist politic/religion, but not against controlled immigration of people who will add to the country. I am most certainly for open discussion and questioning of these current "certainties", rather than just blind acceptance. That BTW is how all rights end up being examined and granted in the first place. This apparently makes me "far right". Jesus.

Nope, I wouldn’t consider you far right at all and I agree with a lot of the above. There are far more extreme points of view than yours on this site though.

Wibbs

sid waddell wrote: »

They're straight out of the Charles Koch/James Buchanan US Republican party playbook. Koch and Buchanan were extremely clear when discussing matters of media and political strategy among their cabal of anarcho-capitalist loons that they they would lie as to their real aims, which was to destroy all forms of social security and regulation, and create a Lord Of The Flies type society of the ultra rich versus serfs.

Hop aboard folks, we're on the conspiracy train. Cabal of anarcho-capitalist loons indeed. A bunch of American libertarian pricks doesn't really translate much beyond the US as it's an American politic. Thank christ. I can respect most forms of politics, or at least agree to disagree, but libertarians really do my head in. A bunch of delusional I am John Galt me fieners with a side order of sociopathy for the most part.

Similarly here, we have a cabal of far right posters who are entirely disingenuous as to their real aims for society, because if they voiced them, they know they'd get thrown off the forum, because they're essentially white supremacist, fascist views.

Wut? So if I point to the all too obvious and generational problems of the multiculturalism politic, even when I clearly state that racism and tribalism if about the biggest issue with it, that makes me a White supremacist? Never mind that even the most extreme views you may find here don't come close or ally with actual fascism at all. Then again "fascist" is about the most erroneously applied terms around at the moment and shows a clear misunderstanding of what it actually is. It's just a lazy insult in lieu of argument for the most part.

On the topic of the thread, journalism is in trouble because of the capitalist ideology of cut, cut, cut and working the ever diminishing group of remaining staff to the bone, often on stupid things which are more about keeping their employer's publication in the public eye such as social media presence.

Journalism costs money.

Fine. How else are you going to fund it? This is common with the more "left" ideologies. Just as the right wingers are usually good at making money, but want to keep it all for themselves the left are good at spending money, but have few solutions for making it in the first place.

Let's be clear here though - both right-wing and fascist ideology utterly opposes and despises the concept of actual journalism because those of such ideology hate scrutiny.

There's the F word again... I hate to break it to you: All dug in ideologies avoid scrutiny. Right, Left, whatever you're having yourself. It's not like socialist countries haven't curtailed the press down the years, just like right wingers. Then again with socialism we tend to get the no true Scotsman argument in play. A 24Kt sure sign you're wedded to one politic or another is you ascribe common evils only to the opposing politic.

We've seen this on this site down the years. It's too "leftie" and "progressive", or it's full of "fascists" and at the same time. This is far more down to the complainers worldview than the reality.

TheCitizen wrote: »

I’m saying plenty Wibbs. You just admitted that you can’t be bothered reading it. If you’re not going to bother reading what I’ve said what are you arguing with me about Wibbs.

Read my posts is THE answer to your query. You’re asking me for examples, the examples are in the posts I’ve already made on the thread. Is this difficult for you Wibbs?

Me. Earlier. wrote: »

Common courtesy would suggest a link to said examples, not just "above", because your last few posts have given none beyond the usual vagueness.

Actually debating with you is like a broken pencil. Pointless.

sid waddell

Be nice if when posters denigrated "multiculturalism" they would actually be honest about what their real views are.

Look, we all know it's code for race hatred. Alright? You know it, we know it, everybody knows it.

It's quite ironic to see the freeze peach crowd cloak their real views. I thought they hated that? Yet they are the biggest participants in something they say they hate!

Be honest - as you might say yourselves - man up.

Chris_Heilong

There are some very funny posts here recently with people who have obviously been taken in by far left conspiracy theory websites and actually believe there are evil Nazis hiding around every corner. These are the types that sign up for antifa and go to rallies/talks to cause violence around someone they have never heard of who somebody else incorrectly labels a Nazi because of a disagreement of opinion, and as they cause destruction, violence and terrorize their victims they keep whispering to themselves "At least I am on the right side of history"

In regards to the posts in other threads that you do not like, if you see someone post something you disagree with then argue your position, if you cant then maybe question yourself, Maybe you are in the wrong.

Invidious

TheCitizen wrote: »

You’re throwing out the usual tropes; anti progressive, anti woke etc etc. The stuff that alt right and far right come out with all the time.

What nonsense. Using the terms "progressive" or "woke" to describe people obsessed with identity politics, political correctness, and competitive victimhood doesn't make someone far-right. There are plenty of people, even on the traditional left, who feel the need to distance themselves from the increasingly shrill and absurd demands of woke progressivism, even though they have zero sympathy with the alt-right or far-right. But such subtleties seem to elude you — you seem to believe that anyone not fully aligned with progressive ideals is a far-right neo-Nazi.