The decline of Irish journalism

MrMusician18

TheCitizen wrote: »

Bollocks. The print media is fecked cos of the internet, it's been heading that way for years. People won't pay for journalism anymore because so much content is free, they just do without the stuff that asks for money to see it.

On here though it's all about the liberal agenda and WLM etc blah blah blah. Yawn. This place is turning into a feckin echo chamber and every discussion of this nature turns into the same ould guff. Give it a rest alt right keyboard warriors.

This is the largest reason, why pay when the content is free online. But some people will pay for good content online, and it is quite possible to make a living through patreon with good content, a few Irish people do.

So of those that will pay for it, the media aren't helping themselves by not even providing good content, or by providing opinions that are anathema to a large chunk of it's potential audience. So why would I pay for content that's not good or I don't agree with? There is nothing noble in donating money to the IT or the Indo just for the sake of keeping them alive. There are better things I can do with my money than ensuring that the editors of the papers can continue to live in the life they've become accustomed to.

The space the papers occupy is now smaller, and to survive in a smaller space you need to be better. It's hard to be better without investment, but equally it's hard to expect people to buy papers for the sake of keeping them going if they don't value them.

Brian Hartman

KiKi III wrote: »

Support them or don't, but please drop the pretence that it's because of anti-white male rhetoric. The white male is still very well catered for.

No I won't drop it. They want my shekels? Alright give me some balance in their articles.

KiKi III

Brian Hartman wrote: »

No I won't drop it. They want my shekels? Alright give me some balance in their articles.

And you don't think 19/28 columnists from your demographic provides enough balance?

TheCitizen

Brian Hartman wrote: »

Well why not boycott Boards.ie, like I am doing with the msm?

How would I show up the Alt right mob on here for what it is if I boycott. Nah, i'd rather stick around and expose you every now and again.

excludedbin

Brian Hartman wrote: »

Well why not boycott Boards.ie, like I am doing with the msm?

Why is it whenever someone says "msm", it's clear that what they really mean is "(((msm)))"?

Brian Hartman wrote: »

No I won't drop it. They want my shekels? Alright give me some balance in their articles.

Oh.

Brian Hartman

KiKi III wrote: »

And you don't think 19/28 columnists from your demographic provides enough balance?

I want balance in the articles they produce. Not constant Orange Man Bad tier crap.

ronivek

This thread mostly reads like a bunch of white Irish men feeling disgruntled about the fact that their own entrenched views on certain matters are not reflected by the majority of people in Ireland anymore.

As to criticisms about the lack of real investigative journalism or analysis; this isn’t a uniquely Irish issue and can be seen across just about every facet of media due to the transformation driven by the Internet and Social Media. Also due to the fact many of the functions ascribed to the media in a de facto manner in the past are now driven by Government agencies directly via tribunal and commission.

KiKi III

Brian Hartman wrote: »

I want balance in the articles they produce. Not constant Orange Man Bad tier crap.

Oh, you're one of those.

MrMusician18

KiKi III wrote: »

And you don't think 19/28 columnists from your demographic provides enough balance?

Surely that would depend on what they are writing about. Court reports or sport for example you wouldn't expect to cause issues regarding balance. Social affairs on the other hand would.

Pointing to the number of journalists from a particular demographic is fairly meaningless of it's a point on balance you are trying to make.

Brian Hartman

KiKi III wrote: »

Oh, you're one of those.

One of what?

KiKi III

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Surely that would depend on what they are writing about. Court reports or sport for example you wouldn't expect to cause issues regarding balance. Social affairs on the other hand would.

Pointing to the number of journalists from a particular demographic is fairly meaningless of it's a point on balance you are trying to make.

I said I was talking about columnists, and provided a link where you can easily see what they're writing about?

I can't do all the work for you.

Kivaro

growleaves wrote: »

Liberalism and progressives can't be left out of a discussion of the decline of Irish journalism.

The conformity to progressivism is why media outlets produce interchangeable content, which can be swapped out for web sites and social media. Everyone admits that the existence of web sites and social media will bankrupt newspapers, but the real reason why this is possible and indeed inevitable is never admitted: there is no difference in content and (low) quality between one and the other.

The other factor is that the political stances these media outlets take, such as a burning passionate hatred of 'white males', creates resentment among the potential customer base. A lot of people who are supposed to be buying these papers would instead like to see them go out of business. This is a win for progressivism but not necessarily a great business decision.

The above post is a prime example of rational debate on a particular topic.

And then you have this:

TheCitizen wrote: »

On here though it's all about the liberal agenda and WLM etc blah blah blah. Yawn. This place is turning into a feckin echo chamber and every discussion of this nature turns into the same ould guff. Give it a rest alt right keyboard warriors.

Maybe the decline in Irish journalism is inevitable because it is now overly geared towards people with limited comprehension/intellect who lack the ability to have a reasoned discussion on various topics. Those whose "go to" response when lacking a sensible retort is name calling.

MrMusician18

KiKi III wrote: »

I said I was talking about columnists, and provided a link where you can easily see what they're writing about?

I can't do all the work for you.

Point still stands. It doesn't matter who or what is doing the writing, it's the point they are making that reflects balance.

Brian Hartman

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Point still stands. It doesn't matter who or what is doing the writing, it's the point they are making that reflects balance.

Agreed. Go ahead and fire half the IT staff and replace them with black lesbians. I don't care if it meant getting some balance of opinion.

KiKi III

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Point still stands. It doesn't matter who or what is doing the writing, it's the point they are making that reflects balance.

My point is that they are. A look across the Irish Times today shows a broad range of points of view; liberal and conservative, male and female perspectives on a wide variety of topics.

The criticism doesn't hold up to the reality.

TheCitizen

Kivaro wrote: »

The above post is a prime example of rational debate on a particular topic.

And then you have this:

Maybe the decline in Irish journalism is inevitable because it is now overly geared towards people with limited comprehension/intellect who lack the ability to have a reasoned discussion on various topics. Those whose "go to" response when lacking a sensible retort is name calling.

Post 85 is the answer to your op query. You're talking gibberish, blathering on about liberal agendas etc etc.

MSM media in England would also be struggling and with it lots of publications with Right wing views, the sort of right wing views and tabloid mindset that has filtered into the the British psyche and culminated in crazy lurches to the right like Brexit.

Everything with the alt right mob on here comes back to this obsession with the liberal agenda etc. That obsession has nothing to do with the decline in traditional journalism.

Galwayguy35

KiKi III wrote: »

My point is that they are. A look across the Irish Times today shows a broad range of points of view; liberal and conservative, male and female perspectives on a wide variety of topics.

The criticism doesn't hold up to the reality.

I'd be interested to see an article from The Irish Times that had a point of view from the right because all I see from them is a biased left wing agenda.

KiKi III

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I'd be interested to see an article from The Irish Times that had a point of view from the right because all I see from them is a biased left wing agenda.

Maria Steen had a pro-life, anti-LGBT article printed yesterday: https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/maria-steen-progressive-views-permeate-daily-life-1.4301533

MrMusician18

KiKi III wrote: »

My point is that they are. A look across the Irish Times today shows a broad range of points of view; liberal and conservative, male and female perspectives on a wide variety of topics.

The criticism doesn't hold up to the reality.

How many articles will you find in the IT criticising the lightning protests that took place in Dublin city centre last year that paralysed public transport, leaving the working stiff with a long commute home? Nope, that was about the homeless that they were campaigning on so it was fine to close the city. Balanced coverage of course would be to say they were wrong to do it in an unplanned way and a weekend would've been better.

KiKi III

MrMusician18 wrote: »

How many articles will you find in the IT criticising the lightning protests that took place in Dublin city centre last year that paralysed public transport, leaving the working stiff with a long commute home? Nope, that was about the homeless that they were campaigning on so it was fine to close the city. Balanced coverage of course would be to say they were wrong to do it in an unplanned way and a weekend would've been better.

That's obviously your own opinion and you're under the illusion that unless your exact thoughts are represented then the coverage is unbalanced.

suicide_circus

KiKi III wrote: »

Maria Steen had a pro-life, anti-LGBT article printed yesterday: https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/maria-steen-progressive-views-permeate-daily-life-1.4301533

I'm actually shocked that got printed

MrMusician18

KiKi III wrote: »

Maria Steen had a pro-life, anti-LGBT article printed yesterday: https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/maria-steen-progressive-views-permeate-daily-life-1.4301533

That wasn't an editorial.

IT has a tendency to go for the Iona/YD extreme as the balancing article, which can make the opposite point seem reasonable.

I look forward to the day when there's an IT editorial that says you can't demand the council house you in a house you like, unless it's next to an IT subscriber

TheCitizen

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm actually shocked that got printed

Certainly won't help IT halt their decline if they start giving platforms to Far Right loons like that eejit

MrMusician18

KiKi III wrote: »

That's obviously your own opinion and you're under the illusion that unless your exact thoughts are represented then the coverage is unbalanced.

I think a reasonable person would agree that it is indeed unreasonable to close the city without notice, leaving people stranded.

Furthermore it would be unreasonable for anyone to expect me to support a paper that thinks the above actions were reasonable, or indeed couldn't bring itself to criticise those tactics.

This was just an example, but balance is being able to take a position in the centre against the actions of the extreme. The IT, very reluctantly , if ever, is critical of this kind of behaviour.

Brian Hartman

MrMusician18 wrote: »

That wasn't an editorial.

IT has a tendency to go for the Iona/YD extreme as the balancing article, which can make the opposite point seem reasonable.

I look forward to the day when there's an IT editorial that says you can't demand the council house you in a house you like, unless it's next to an IT subscriber

I want to see migrant centres and halting sites built in affluent areas. It disturbs me that Irish Times readers are deprived of minority culture.

Turfcutter

Another bug bear of mine. During some of the recent high profile murder and rape trials in the broadsheets - a couple of paragraphs described the court events of the court that that day and the testimonies, the other 75% of the article was a boiler plate cut and paste overview of the trial that never changed day-to-day.

Galwayguy35

KiKi III wrote: »

Maria Steen had a pro-life, anti-LGBT article printed yesterday: https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/maria-steen-progressive-views-permeate-daily-life-1.4301533

A token contributer they give a shovel to so she can dig a deeper hole for herself while the rest of the IT journos have a laugh at her.

Most people on the right have no issue with gay folks or how a woman handles a pregnancy.

KiKi III

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I think a reasonable person would agree that it is indeed unreasonable to close the city without notice, leaving people stranded.

Furthermore it would be unreasonable for anyone to expect me to support a paper that thinks the above actions were reasonable, or indeed couldn't bring itself to criticise those tactics.

This was just an example, but balance is being able to take a position in the centre against the actions of the extreme. The IT, very reluctantly , if ever, is critical of this kind of behaviour.

It makes sense to me that newspapers, who closely guard their right to freedom of speech/ expression, would not be quick to criticise protestors exercising the same right in a different way.

KiKi III

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

A token contributer they give a shovel to so she can dig a deeper hole for herself while the rest of the IT journos have a laugh at her.

Most people on the right have no issue with gay folks or how a woman handles a pregnancy.

They also have Breda O'Brien as a regular columnist, and often have articles from Bishops etc.

The fact is, as shown in the last three referenda and the recent election, Irish people are far, far less conservative and right wing than they used to be.

If the paper leans more liberal and left-wing, it's because the population does.

Out of interest, what right wing commentators would you like to see given more of a platform?

Chiparus

When you have Journalists telling people to keep Schtum- presumably because it could adversly affect a politician's career, you have to wonder.

https://twitter.com/nwl88444048/status/1281180186675949569