The decline of Irish journalism

coinop

On the discussion of how the Irish media are always cheerleaders for the Democratic presidents in America while being openly hostile to the Republican ones, I present RTE's infamous 2004 Carole Coleman interview with George W Bush. Coleman, complete with short haircut but lacking the trademark septum piercing, was out to make a name for herself as a tough reporter and repeatedly interrupted Bush before he could complete his answer in order to attempt another "gotcha" zinger, which Bush actually called her out on mid-interview. It caused a minor diplomatic incident at the time where the White House made a formal complaint to the Irish embassy about the interview and the Irish government subsequently acknowledgment that the interview lacked respect. Coleman's career went to the gutter after this embarrassment and she isn't seen much nowadays.

TheCitizen

r3nu4l wrote: »

A service has to be of a consistently high standard and quality before people will be willing to subscribe to it. The service also has to feel consistently worth it.

In many cases, a pay service should have unique content that you either can't get anywhere else, or it's not so easy to get that content somewhere else (e.g, from dodgy sites with qurstionable, spammy ads).

Irish newspapers don't reach any of those milestones for me and so I don't subscribe to them. The closest for me would possibly be The Irish Times but it's not unique enough and I can get similar need elsewhere.

Paywalls, also have other negative events: I no longer even visit independent.ie, whereas before Premium came in, I visited that site multiple times every day. I haven't been onto the site in months and I don't click on any suggestions from Google news to bring me there. Only last week I instructed Google not to show me stories from independent.ie any more.

I'm probably not alone in doing this which means that the page impressions on the site may have dropped overall and big advertisers usually want to know those numbers.

Before anyone thinks I'm just not into subscription models, I subscribe to Netflix, Spotify, Prime video, NowTV (movies), Disney+ and I occasionally subscribe to Audible (depending on what deals are on).

What's Audible like? A storytelling site? Is it any good?

KiKi III

TheCitizen wrote: »

What's Audible like? A storytelling site? Is it any good?

Audio books. Pretty good value I'd say. Particularly if you listen to books with authors who are good narrators themselves, like Stephen Fry or Neil Gaiman.

r3nu4l

KiKi III wrote: »

But there's all kinds of sh1te on Netflix, lots of music on Spotify you probably think is crap etc. You subscribe because of the bits you value.

There is more than enough consistently high quality material on Netflix most of which is unique to that platform too. The uniqueness of content matters

In journalism, I can always get the story elsewhere for free.

There just aren't enough people out there who care enough about the opinion of a particular journalist to subscribe to a news paywall to hear what they have to say about a story.

TheCitizen

coinop wrote: »

On the discussion of how the Irish media are always cheerleaders for the Democratic presidents in America while being openly hostile to the Republican ones, I present RTE's infamous 2004 Carole Coleman interview with George W Bush. Coleman, complete with short haircut but lacking the trademark septum piercing, was out to make a name for herself as a tough reporter and repeatedly interrupted Bush before he could complete his answer in order to attempt another "gotcha" zinger, which Bush actually called her out on mid-interview. It caused a minor diplomatic incident at the time where the White House made a formal complaint to the Irish embassy about the interview and the Irish government subsequently acknowledgment that the interview lacked respect. Coleman's career went to the gutter after this embarrassment and she isn't seen much nowadays.

A bit of a one off. Irish Journos wouldn't normally attack any US President. Reagan got the red carpet treatment same as any Democrat.

If you're whining about Trump and the way he's depicted, well that's entirely his fault, he's an absolute bollocks, no two ways about it.

Galwayguy35

coinop wrote: »

On the discussion of how the Irish media are always cheerleaders for the Democratic presidents in America while being openly hostile to the Republican ones, I present RTE's infamous 2004 Carole Coleman interview with George W Bush. Coleman, complete with short haircut but lacking the trademark septum piercing, was out to make a name for herself as a tough reporter and repeatedly interrupted Bush before he could complete his answer in order to attempt another "gotcha" zinger, which Bush actually called her out on mid-interview. It caused a minor diplomatic incident at the time where the White House made a formal complaint to the Irish embassy about the interview and the Irish government subsequently acknowledgment that the interview lacked respect. Coleman's career went to the gutter after this embarrassment and she isn't seen much nowadays.

I remember that interview.

She should have been fired for that, it was the height of bad manners and fair play to Bush he remained polite and answered questions as best as he could despite the constant interruptions.

Of course she was seen as a hero by the left at the time.

TheCitizen

Brian Hartman wrote: »

Lol, Boards is not /pol/

:pac: The commentary speaks for itself pal. It's like an echo chamber a lot of the time and may entirely turn into that if the proliferation of right and Far right views continues to grow.

TheCitizen

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I remember that interview.

She should have been fired for that, it was the height of bad manners and fair play to Bush he remained polite and answered questions as best as he could despite the constant interruptions.

Of course she was seen as a hero by the left at the time.

George Dubya was a redneck war mongerer. No surprise you would take his side in any argument.

Brian Hartman

TheCitizen wrote: »

It's like an echo chamber a lot of the time and may entirely turn into that if the proliferation of right and Far right views continues to grow.

Sounds good!

TheCitizen

Brian Hartman wrote: »

Sounds good!

Yes, You'd like that.

MrMusician18

KiKi III wrote: »

But there's all kinds of sh1te on Netflix, lots of music on Spotify you probably think is crap etc. You subscribe because of the bits you value.

I don't think it's possible to value everything on a platform like Netflix since the library is so large however the poster above clearly values at least some aspects of it at or above the subscription fee and that it offers access to that content easily and securely.

Irish domestic newspapers are nothing like that. You can access the same news elsewhere. Many articles are glorified press releases. Opinion pieces are not fully researched and offers don't offer any real depth in terms of their analysis and are entirely predictable. I see an article on Brexit by Fintin O'Toole, I know what way that's going to go for example.

Galwayguy35

TheCitizen wrote: »

George Dubya was a redneck war mongerer. No surprise you would take his side in any argument.

You ok princess?

growleaves

KiKi III wrote: »

I'd consider the majority of IT writers quite centrist. A little too cosy with the establishment for sure, that's a valid criticism, but certainly not very left.

People who hate feminism/ feminists can't stand that the paper has an entire TWO of them on the payroll now, Una and Roe. They act like those two columns represent the entire paper which isn't the case at all.

The majority of their journalists are middle aged, middle class men.

As long as a newspaper is focusing energetic hatred and attacks on 'white males', to any degree, then white men would be stupid to buy it. I'm not going to fund this kind of thing and I think the why of it is pretty straightforward.

Human societies thrive on co-operation. Who benefits from the manufactured bitter contest between sexes, genders, races? (Answer: rich people who keep above the fray)

TheCitizen

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You ok princess?

:pac: No bother pal. Quite happy and confident to call out what I see at times around here.

MrMusician18

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I remember that interview.

She should have been fired for that, it was the height of bad manners and fair play to Bush he remained polite and answered questions as best as he could despite the constant interruptions.

Of course she was seen as a hero by the left at the time.

Coleman did make a legitimate point that if she had let him rhyme off his stock answers it would've been a wasted opportunity. Those interview are run to a clock.

With hindsight, it doesn't look like the interview did her careers any favours though.

mariaalice

Just shows you, people, see what they want to see.

kildare lad

boombang wrote: »

The bleeding heart garbage that Kitty Holland keeps writing about homelessness (when there is a serious housing affordability problem) must drive the proper journos at the Irish Times crazy. How the editors keep printing that nonsense is amazing.

I deleted the Irish times off my Facebook feed as during all the BLM protests , everyday they had articles from black people living in Ireland about how it's the most racist country they've every been in . There's to many opinion pieces from journalists nowadays and everythings all about , racism, sexism , gender pay gap, diversity , LGBT , cancel culture . Life's hard enough for most people without reading some far left opinion piece that most people couldn't give a toss about

Silentcorner

growleaves wrote: »

As long as a newspaper is focusing energetic hatred and attacks on 'white males', to any degree, then white men would be stupid to buy it. I'm not going to fund this kind of thing and I think the why of it is pretty straightforward.

Human societies thrive on co-operation. Who benefits from the manufactured bitter contest between sexes, genders, races? (Answer: rich people who keep above the fray)

Persistent gender baiting and now race baiting will prove to be the final nail in a lot of media coffins...they only have themselves to blame, they have abandoned the low standards they used to aspire to, when they were rolling in cash selling property advertising they didn't bother investing in investigative journalism, they sat back and ignored endemic political corruption in Dublin and a few other cities, they sat back and let the Church Authorities get away with child sex abuse scandals for decades also....if possible, the standards have dropped further now since the entire industry drove their revenue model off a cliff!!!

Galwayguy35

TheCitizen wrote: »

:pac: No bother pal. Quite happy and confident to call out what I see at times around here.

Good to hear, I getting a bit worried about you there for a minute.

Brian Hartman

kildare lad wrote: »

I deleted the Irish times off my Facebook feed as during all the BLM protests , everyday they had articles from black people living in Ireland about how it's the most racist country they've every been in . There's to many opinion pieces from journalists nowadays and everythings all about , racism, sexism , gender pay gap, diversity , LGBT , cancel culture . Life's hard enough for most people without reading some far left opinion piece that most people couldn't give a toss about

And they expect us to pay for this crap!!

MrMusician18

Silentcorner wrote: »

Persistent gender baiting and now race baiting will prove to be the final nail in a lot of media coffins...they only have themselves to blame, they have abandoned the low standards they used to aspire to, when they were rolling in cash selling property advertising they didn't bother investing in investigative journalism, they sat back and ignored endemic political corruption in Dublin and a few other cities, they sat back and let the Church Authorities get away with child sex abuse scandals for decades also....if possible, the standards have dropped further now since the entire industry drove their revenue model off a cliff!!!

Which will be the next national title to go I wonder. The Herald, is that still around?

TheCitizen

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Good to hear, I getting a bit worried about you there for a minute.

Right you be Galwaybloke

TheCitizen

kildare lad wrote: »

I deleted the Irish times off my Facebook feed as during all the BLM protests , everyday they had articles from black people living in Ireland about how it's the most racist country they've every been in . There's to many opinion pieces from journalists nowadays and everythings all about , racism, sexism , gender pay gap, diversity , LGBT , cancel culture . Life's hard enough for most people without reading some far left opinion piece that most people couldn't give a toss about

:pac: Another exhibit

tayto lover

Fitch Kelly is no loss to journalism imo. Was just a mouthpiece.

Brian Hartman

TheCitizen wrote: »

:pac: Another exhibit

No offence but you don't come across as, how I do I put this delicately, 'neuro typical', if you get me.

KiKi III

growleaves wrote: »

As long as a newspaper is focusing energetic hatred and attacks on 'white males', to any degree, then white men would be stupid to buy it. I'm not going to fund this kind of thing and I think the why of it is pretty straightforward.

Human societies thrive on co-operation. Who benefits from the manufactured bitter contest between sexes, genders, races? (Answer: rich people who keep above the fray)

Some men are exceptionally sensitive to criticism these days; they're so invested in maintaining the status quo that they take things very personally when feminist writers are talking about ways society could improve.

Brian Hartman

KiKi III wrote: »

Some men are exceptionally sensitive to criticism these days; they're so invested in maintaining the status quo that they take things very personally when feminist writers are talking about ways society could improve.

Ah the old 'fragility' insult. Maybe we just don't want to accept collective blame for all the evil in the world?

KiKi III

Brian Hartman wrote: »

Ah the old 'fragility' insult. Maybe we just don't want to accept collective blame for all the evil in the world?

Go on, link me the article where men are collectively blamed for all the evil in the world?

joseywhales

George w bush is a redneck now? Born in Connecticut, went to yale and Harvard business school, not a days farming in his life. It's just, inaccurate whatever about being a racist term.

Sunny Disposition

I know people mightn’t realise it yet, but the outlook for Irish journalism is better than it has been for at least 13 years, in a way it looks more sustainable than it has been for nearly 20 years.

The IT paywall worked, very high numbers of subscribers and growing. The Independent launched their paywall only lately and were very pleased with the start it made, then when Covid struck it improved way beyond expectations.

It’s not long since people thought paywalls wouldn’t work but these two have and brands that seemed doomed a few years ago are secure now.

The good thing is that the new model doesn’t depend on advertising to anything like the extent the old one did, but having good journalism is absolutely essential.