The decline of Irish journalism

Brian Hartman

KiKi III wrote: »

Go on, link me the article where men are collectively blamed for all the evil in the world?

Just google 'white men' and see how every result is negative.

But funny how all these minority migrants are desperate to get to our countries!

growleaves

KiKi III wrote: »

Some men are exceptionally sensitive to criticism these days; they're so invested in maintaining the status quo that they take things very personally when feminist writers are talking about ways society could improve.

I don't expect women to be stupid or not look out for their self-interest. The problem is that mainstream media rhetoric has a bitter, anti-male quality to it which is perceived and felt by its targets, whether they are sensitive or not. Sowing division doesn't do much for society and the fallout is on ordinary men and women, who are without connections, and who effectively end up fighting over scraps. The status quo benefits the rich and powerful, who stir it all up, let them pay for their own newspapers is all I'm saying.

TheCitizen

joseywhales wrote: »

George w bush is a redneck now? Born in Connecticut, went to yale and Harvard business school, not a days farming in his life. It's just, inaccurate whatever about being a racist term.

A few George Dubya fans outing themselves on here now. Says a lot.

MrMusician18

KiKi III wrote: »

Some men are exceptionally sensitive to criticism these days; they're so invested in maintaining the status quo that they take things very personally when feminist writers are talking about ways society could improve.

Exceptionally sensitive or not you'd hardly expect the same people to buy a newspaper or subscription that pushes or promotes these ideas if they don't believe in them though? Same way you wouldn't expect to see a feminist buying the Irish Catholic.

Unfortunately for the papers, that aside from the internet taking away the majority of their readers, that at least some that would be inclined to buy now are alienated from doing so - I'd point to my parents neighbour that I mentioned earlier.

That said, even if they abandoned their current editorial stance and tacked to the centre, it wouldn't be enough to save them now.

joseywhales

TheCitizen wrote: »

A few George Dubya fans outing themselves on here now. Says a lot.

I am a fan because you are inaccurate, interesting.

I am a fan of not being wrong.

TheCitizen

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

I know people mightn’t realise it yet, but the outlook for Irish journalism is better than it has been for at least 13 years, in a way it looks more sustainable than it has been for nearly 20 years.

The IT paywall worked, very high numbers of subscribers and growing. The Independent launched their paywall only lately and were very pleased with the start it made, then when Covid struck it improved way beyond expectations.

It’s not long since people thought paywalls wouldn’t work but these two have and brands that seemed doomed a few years ago are secure now.

The good thing is that the new model doesn’t depend on advertising to anything like the extent the old one did, but having good journalism is absolutely essential.

Well that is good to hear but I find it hard to believe to be honest. I used to buy papers nearly everyday but have now got out of the habit.

I subscribe to NOWTV sports, Netflix and disney for the kids. I would subscribe to Irish soccer channels if one was set up for the national team and LOI games. I don't know anyone who subscribes to a newspaper Irish or otherwise.

Silentcorner

growleaves wrote: »

I don't expect women to be stupid or not look out for their self-interest. The problem is that mainstream media rhetoric has a bitter, anti-male quality to it which is perceived and felt by its targets, whether they are sensitive or not. Sowing division doesn't do much for society and the fallout is on ordinary men and women, who are without connections, and who effectively end up fighting over scraps. The status quo benefits the rich and powerful, who stir it all up, let them pay for their own newspapers is all I'm saying.

The problem with the Feminist argument that is peppered all over media these days, is that it engages circular reasoning which a child could see through...

For instance, building are sexist because men are sexist, girls don't cycle as much as boys because men are sexist...there aren't many female CEOs as there are male CEO's because men are sexist...men make more money than women because men are sexist...etc etc...I don't know what idiot was responsible for allowing media outlets take such a one dimensional editorial line but it is already proven to be a joke....these same idiots made a decision collectively a number of years ago to give away their content for free...the free market punishes poor decisions.

TheCitizen

joseywhales wrote: »

I am a fan because you are inaccurate, interesting.

I am a fan of not being wrong.

But you are wrong Josey

joseywhales

TheCitizen wrote: »

But you are wrong Josey

Explain please

boardise

Brian Hartman wrote: »

What are you exposing? And who are you exposing it to?

:eek:

KiKi III

It’s hard to charge anyone for something once they’re used to getting it for free. I think that’s the issue moreso than the ideological stance of any given paper.

Tell me how

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Exceptionally sensitive or not you'd hardly expect the same people to buy a newspaper or subscription that pushes or promotes these ideas if they don't believe in them though? Same way you wouldn't expect to see a feminist buying the Irish Catholic.

Unfortunately for the papers, that aside from the internet taking away the majority of their readers, that at least some that would be inclined to buy now are alienated from doing so - I'd point to my parents neighbour that I mentioned earlier.

That said, even if they abandoned their current editorial stance and tacked to the centre, it wouldn't be enough to save them now.

Papers in Ireland by and large don't have the luxury of having a stance which they want to push. For x number of years the focus has been to motivate as many people as possible to either buy the paper or buy advertising within it.

Any leaning in stance can be held by some individuals but they proportionally exist from various locations on the spectrum which is reflective of how Irish society is.
That has been borne out in recent elections and referendums and support for outliers which might wish their cause was more popular, but it isn't.

ILoveYourVibes

Kivaro wrote: »

When I say decline, I am not just talking about the quality of the trade, but the exodus of journalists to take up government positions.

I checked online yesterday about the departure of Fiach Kelly, deputy political editor of The Irish Times, for the job as special advisor to to Helen McEntee, the minister for justice, but there was nothing to be found online, except on a Times (The Times) article. Another departure was that of Susan Mitchell, deputy editor of The Sunday Business Post (SBP), who also took up the position of adviser to Stephen Donnelly, the health minister.
To quote The Times article:
"This means two journalists who would ordinarily have held the new government to account will instead be working for it."

There appears to be an exodus from Irish newspapers and RTE for jobs in governmental buildings in the last couple of years, which would lead one to question if the main reason why the quality of Irish journalism has degraded to such an extent is due to the possibility of prospective jobs in government for them if they are supportive of government initiatives and policies.

To me, Irish journalists should have an adversarial relationship with government in order to keep them honest, but this is not evident for the most part in the last number of years in Ireland.
So who is the public's advocate? Who will ask the really important questions that are not really being asked? Is the concept of impartial investigative reporting in Ireland gone for good?
I initially thought that being very liberal in media was just the current fad for Irish journalists, but apparently there is a prospective pot of gold for those journalists and editors who play well with government in the form of future tax payer funded State employment.

I think that stinks.

Bingo. I applaud you sincerely.

Thank you OP.

You hit the target.

The whole Terry Prone media empire.

The Bunny Carr empire.Horrible man. (he trained 6 Taoisigh) Garret FitzGerald and Charles Haughey were among them.

The Communications Clinic

Those people are awful.

TheCitizen

Brian Hartman wrote: »

No offence but you don't come across as, how I do I put this delicately, 'neuro typical', if you get me.

Just seeing this post now. It doesn’t take much prodding for the like of this character here to reveal himself. He got banned I see, he must’ve said something worse that has been removed.

Abel Ruiz

KiKi III wrote: »

What news outlets have you been relying on for updates during the Covid 19 outbreak in Ireland, and how do you support them?

Boards.ie
And I don't support them cause I'm broke

ILoveYourVibes

What news outlets have you been relying on for updates during the Covid 19 outbreak in Ireland, and how do you support them?

Irish News outlets have been woeful during covid.

Abel Ruiz

kildare lad wrote: »

I deleted the Irish times off my Facebook feed as during all the BLM protests , everyday they had articles from black people living in Ireland about how it's the most racist country they've every been in . There's to many opinion pieces from journalists nowadays and everythings all about , racism, sexism , gender pay gap, diversity , LGBT , cancel culture . Life's hard enough for most people without reading some far left opinion piece that most people couldn't give a toss about

I used to buy the irish times for €1.80 every day back in 2008/9/10 when the shiit was hitting the fan. It was a great read.
The difference in 10years is night and day!

And the price has gone up? Comical!!!!

Hector Savage

Kivaro wrote: »

The Sunday Times also broke the news about the Social Democrats candidate Ellie Kisyombe, who lied in her Irish asylum application. She secured a student visa in Ireland, before travelling to the UK and claiming asylum there. When that failed, she came back to Ireland. As expected in Ireland, she was eventually granted leave to remain. The Pamela Izebekhai scam cost the Irish tax payer over €1 million in costs before finally deporting her back to Nigeria.

Isn't it a bit odd that it takes an English newspaper to bring these stories to the fore?

Racist!

TomTomTim

KiKi III wrote: »

Some men are exceptionally sensitive to criticism these days; they're so invested in maintaining the status quo that they take things very personally when feminist writers are talking about ways society could improve.

I honestly have no problem with some male bashing, if some female bashing is allowed, as I believe in fairness. This is why I've nothing but contempt for posters like yourself, as you wouldn't tolerate even a tiny bit of criticism of females, yet here you are calling males sensitive for not tolerating what you wouldn't tolerate. You're nothing but another merchant of progressive hypocrisy.

tayto lover

Hector Savage wrote: »

Racist!

Why is his post racist?

TheCitizen

TomTomTim wrote: »

I honestly have no problem with some male bashing, if some female bashing is allowed, as I believe in fairness. This is why I've nothing but contempt for posters like yourself, as you wouldn't tolerate even a tiny bit of criticism of females, yet here you are calling males sensitive for not tolerating what you wouldn't tolerate. You're nothing but another merchant of progressive hypocrisy.

You're an equal opportunity basher.

TheCitizen

KiKi III wrote: »

Some men are exceptionally sensitive to criticism these days; they're so invested in maintaining the status quo that they take things very personally when feminist writers are talking about ways society could improve.

Just the alt right dweebs around here and the National Party etc. Pathetic excuses for men.

Kivaro

TheCitizen wrote: »

Just the alt right dweebs around here and the National Party etc. Pathetic excuses for men.

Now on the ignore list for obvious reasons.
Would recommend others to do similarly to stop him from trying to de-rail the thread.

Kivaro

tayto lover wrote: »

Why is his post racist?

It was an ironic post I presume ............ to highlight what progressives do when trying to shut down any debate that they want "protected" i.e. only their viewpoints are allowed.

TheCitizen

Kivaro wrote: »

Now on the ignore list for obvious reasons.
Would recommend others to do similarly to stop him from trying to de-rail the thread.

:pac: Your thread is a pile of nonsense.

There is a decline in Irish journalism but it's not for the silly reasons that you and your pals on the far right on here have outlined, but yeah go ahead put me on ignore and enjoy your echo chamber.

KiKi III

TomTomTim wrote: »

I honestly have no problem with some male bashing, if some female bashing is allowed, as I believe in fairness. This is why I've nothing but contempt for posters like yourself, as you wouldn't tolerate even a tiny bit of criticism of females, yet here you are calling males sensitive for not tolerating what you wouldn't tolerate. You're nothing but another merchant of progressive hypocrisy.

See this just isn’t true. That’s a series of assumptions you’ve made about me based on nothing. Do you think you’d catch me on a thread defending the nuns who ran Magdalene Laundries? Feel free to consult the Gemma O’Doherty thread to see my opinion of her and her ilk. Likewise Katie Hopkins.

I’m more than happy for women who deserve it to be criticised. I’d also happily stick up for any man who is getting an unfair bashing.

You just assume things about me that aren’t true, and that’s so ignorant that I wear your contempt as a badge of honour.

MrMusician18

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Irish News outlets have been woeful during covid.

Some of it has been absolutely awful. Other aspects have been good tbf. You could see an element of cosiness between media and Government though

I'd occasionally watch the daily DoH press conference and you'd swear some of the journalists asking questions had rocks for brains. I actually would've expected children to ask better questions some days. You could sometimes feel the frustration of the panel trying to answer, who were far more courteous than I'd have been.

Triangle

TheCitizen wrote: »

Just goes to show that a big lump of the volume of chat on here is Extreme Alt Right type opinion. This site has become totally skewed to the Far Right ...

Wow if you think what's been written by folks not agreeing with you here is Extreme Alt Right....i think you may be Extreme Alt Left !

TomTomTim

TomTomTim wrote: »

I honestly have no problem with some male bashing, if some female bashing is allowed, as I believe in fairness. This is why I've nothing but contempt for posters like yourself, as you wouldn't tolerate even a tiny bit of criticism of females, yet here you are calling males sensitive for not tolerating what you wouldn't tolerate. You're nothing but another merchant of progressive hypocrisy.

Bashing people because of what sex,they are is a pointless exercise really?


Just because someone bashes x,makes no sense to immediately bash y "for balance"

joseywhales

You could just not bash people at all based on gender age religion or race maybe?