The decline of Irish journalism

excludedbin

But some people lead miserable, stunted lives and so have to take out their frustration on whatever easy target they can find. God, I can't for the life of me imagine what it must be like to live like that. To be permanently enraged by people who just happen to different to you. Not even for any effects they may have on your life, just because they happen to inhabit the same general area as you. It's insane.

Tokyo

TheCitizen wrote: »

You're an equal opportunity basher.

TheCitizen wrote: »

Just the alt right dweebs around here and the National Party etc. Pathetic excuses for men.

TheCitizen wrote: »

:pac: Your thread is a pile of nonsense.

Mod: I find it hard to see how you are discussing the issue in good faith here. Any more posts along these lines will result in a threadban.

Kivaro

Originally Posted by KiKi III
What news outlets have you been relying on for updates during the Covid 19 outbreak in Ireland, and how do you support them?

Abel Ruiz wrote: »

Boards.ie
And I don't support them cause I'm broke

I actually found boards.ie to have been an invaluable source for information when the pandemic kicked off. The Covid Forum was very informative.
It will probably lead me to becoming a boards subscriber again.

And I mentioned a while back on another thread, that the likes of boards.ie would replace traditional media due to all of the fake news and partial/biased reporting by the mainstream media.

TheCitizen

mike_ie wrote: »

Mod: I find it hard to see how you are discussing the issue in good faith here. Any more posts along these lines will result in a threadban.

The comments you quoted there were flippant ones I grant you and don't contribute much in and of themselves.

My overall point is that the premise of the entire thread is erroneous. We have the op who starts a thread titled "The decline of Irish journalism" and several others chime in with him where they label the Irish MSM as Lefty (which it isn't, there's lots of left and Right and other opinion given platform in the Irish media) and that that is the reason for "the decline in Irish journalism". It isn't. There is a discussion to be had re the decline of Irish journalism but this thread imo is just another rehash of several other threads on here where what is termed "liberalism" and "progressivism" is attacked day in day out.

There's another thread there entitled "Post modern progressiveness" and a poll attached to it with the overwhelming majority on the site saying outright they don't agree with it. I don't believe this is reflected in society and in my view this site has been overwhelmed with Far Right/Alt Right type opinion of which this thread is another example.

People are entitled to their views but this thread in my opinion is erroneous in it's conclusions and is manipulating the subject matter of the thread to create yet another attack on all things that this proliferation of Right Wing opinion makers often erroneously regard as Liberalism/Left/Progressiveness etc.

Irish journalism is in decline because people have got used to getting content for free and they're unlikely to access articles behind a paywall now that they've got out of the habit of paying for journalistic content.

ExMachina1000

TheCitizen wrote: »

The comments you quoted there were flippant ones I grant you and don't contribute much in and of themselves.

My overall point is that the premise of the entire thread is erroneous. We have the op who starts a thread titled "The decline of Irish journalism" and several others chime in with him where they label the Irish MSM as Lefty (which it isn't, there's lots of left and Right and other opinion given platform in the Irish media) and that that is the reason for "the decline in Irish journalism". It isn't. There is a discussion to be had re the decline of Irish journalism but this thread imo is just another rehash of several other threads on here where what is termed "liberalism" and "progressivism" is attacked day in day out.

There's another thread there entitled "Post modern progressiveness" and a poll attached to it with the overwhelming majority on the site saying outright they don't agree with it. I don't believe this is reflected in society and in my view this site has been overwhelmed with Far Right/Alt Right type opinion of which this thread is another example.

People are entitled to their views but this thread in my opinion is erroneous in it's conclusions and is manipulating the subject matter of the thread to create yet another attack on all things that this proliferation of Right Wing opinion makers often erroneously regard as Liberalism/Left/Progressiveness etc.

Irish journalism is in decline because people have got used to getting content for free and they're unlikely to access articles behind a paywall now that they've got out of the habit of paying for journalistic content.

I understand your point but personally I feel Irish journalism and the media in general is too left or liberal biased.

Silentcorner

TheCitizen wrote: »

The comments you quoted there were flippant ones I grant you and don't contribute much in and of themselves.

My overall point is that the premise of the entire thread is erroneous. We have the op who starts a thread titled "The decline of Irish journalism" and several others chime in with him where they label the Irish MSM as Lefty (which it isn't, there's lots of left and Right and other opinion given platform in the Irish media) and that that is the reason for "the decline in Irish journalism". It isn't. There is a discussion to be had re the decline of Irish journalism but this thread imo is just another rehash of several other threads on here where what is termed "liberalism" and "progressivism" is attacked day in day out.

There's another thread there entitled "Post modern progressiveness" and a poll attached to it with the overwhelming majority on the site saying outright they don't agree with it. I don't believe this is reflected in society and in my view this site has been overwhelmed with Far Right/Alt Right type opinion of which this thread is another example.

People are entitled to their views but this thread in my opinion is erroneous in it's conclusions and is manipulating the subject matter of the thread to create yet another attack on all things that this proliferation of Right Wing opinion makers often erroneously regard as Liberalism/Left/Progressiveness etc.

Irish journalism is in decline because people have got used to getting content for free and they're unlikely to access articles behind a paywall now that they've got out of the habit of paying for journalistic content.

This is a bit of a stretch....look around you, politically this ideology is getting battered in both the US and UK....our culture, tv shows, movies etc that drench themselves in it fail more often than not...

Outside of media and academia and the minority of people they influence no one wants this suffocating culture...both media industry and academia are about to feel this backlash in the form of revenue and relevance.

Tell me how

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I understand your point but personally I feel Irish journalism and the media in general is too left or liberal biased.

Silentcorner wrote: »

This is a bit of a stretch....look around you, politically this ideology is getting battered in both the US and UK....our culture, tv shows, movies etc that drench themselves in it fail more often than not...

Outside of media and academia and the minority of people they influence no one wants this suffocating culture...both media industry and academia are about to feel this backlash in the form of revenue and relevance.

The media has long been in a position where it has to appeal to as many as possible in order to remain viable. I am of the opinion that the media in Ireland is still largely motivated in reporting the news instead of creating it but there are plenty participants who rail against the same things you and others do.

What is the ideology which you think is getting battered in the US and the UK? Can you give evidence of this battering so we can see what you are referring to?

Edgware

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I understand your point but personally I feel Irish journalism and the media in general is too left or liberal biased.

Are they just reflecting the views of a changing Irish society?
The Same sex Marriage referendum and abortion referendum passed with a good majority.
The old two and a half party system is gone with people voting for several different parties and a number of independents.

Silentcorner

Edgware wrote: »

Are they just reflecting the views of a changing Irish society?
The Same sex Marriage referendum and abortion referendum passed with a good majority.
The old two and a half party system is gone with people voting for several different parties and a number of independents.

Those referendums would have passed 10 years ago...media is always behind the curve in this country, the gap has widened is all!!!

Invidious

TheCitizen wrote: »

There's another thread there entitled "Post modern progressiveness" and a poll attached to it with the overwhelming majority on the site saying outright they don't agree with it. I don't believe this is reflected in society and in my view this site has been overwhelmed with Far Right/Alt Right type opinion of which this thread is another example.

The fact that some people object when they see identitarian, woke, progressive extremism increasingly reflected in the Irish media doesn't make them "far right" or "alt right."

excludedbin

The fact that they parrot alt-right talking points like "cultural marxism" and "post modernist progressiveism", however, does.

Invidious

Saying that woke, identitarian politics is a variant of cultural Marxism — which it factually is — doesn't make someone "far right."

The far right does not have a significant presence in Ireland, compared to other European countries. The National Party got a mere 0.2% of the first-preference vote. Posters routinely complain about the so-called far-right on this forum, but most of these people in reality are centrist or centre-right posters fed up with all the woke nonsense coming at them from the US.

Higgins5473

Haven’t read the thread. Title was enough,

Have cancelled my IT sub, used to be a quality publication with top notch journalists, now...totally impartial garbage. Hard to know what it is other than not wanting to offend anyone, from politics, sports and cookery. Utter 💩 worst thing is our own Katie Hopkins version of attention seeking in the form of Una Mullally

Indo - propaganda piece of 💩

The rest, essentially red tops.

Online: journal.ie

Yes, it’s bad.

ExMachina1000

Tell me how wrote: »

The media has long been in a position where it has to appeal to as many as possible in order to remain viable. I am of the opinion that the media in Ireland is still largely motivated in reporting the news instead of creating it but there are plenty participants who rail against the same things you and others do.

I mostly agree but as examples we see stories of people in direct provision and the poor conditions. We also hear about travellers being discriminated against.

We don't see stories about immigration fraud or the unemployment rate of Africans in Ireland . We also don't hear store about travellers committing crimes or the rate. We don't hear from victims.

What I wrote above does happen or is happening and is relevant

Why are we only presented with the first paragraph?
The news in Ireland only ever shows or talks about one side.

You lose a massive amount potential audience when you pick a side. Media have only themselves to blame

excludedbin

Oh pull the other one. We absolutely do hear about immigration fraud and Travellers committing crimes but the sad truth is it's just not at the level you lot think it is, so you make up these fanciful ideas to explain it. Unless you somehow have access to evidence that proves the opposite. Which is always the most tedious part of all this, none of you can ever present anything to prove that these matters are as bad as you claim.

Tell me how

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I mostly agree but as examples we see stories of people in direct provision and the poor conditions. We also hear about travellers being discriminated against.

We don't see stories about immigration fraud or the unemployment rate of Africans in Ireland . We also don't hear store about travellers committing crimes or the rate. We don't hear from victims.

What I wrote above does happen or is happening and is relevant

Why are we only presented with the first paragraph?
The news in Ireland only ever shows or talks about one side.

You lose a massive amount potential audience when you pick a side. Media have only themselves to blame

Ok, but, is it not the case that the situations in direct provision are indeed very poor for some people? The access to food for babies outside of regular meal times for example or the general quality of meals provided. Do you believe that travellers are not discriminated against when you see the response towards them on places such as this.

In terms of immigration fraud, or employment rates, or traveler crime? How do you know these things happen? Is it not because it has been reported in the media at some point? Can you see how moving from reporting a crime or case to suggesting that all members of that community are likely/possibly/maybe behaving in the same way is a prejudiced approach to take?

Wibbs

Edgware wrote: »

Are they just reflecting the views of a changing Irish society?
The Same sex Marriage referendum and abortion referendum passed with a good majority.

60 odd % in both cases, though that leaves a third of those who voted against both. That's a fair chunk of people. Divorce was rejected and then got through next time by the skin of its teeth. The vote to stop the automatic passport by virtue of birth here was passed in favour by over two thirds of those who voted. Direct provision isn't exactly popular. Never mind the also ran no hoper presidential candidate who went from last to second in the final polls on the back of a statement against Travellers.

Ireland has changed yes and for the better for the most part, but there is still a more traditional, even "right wing" streak in our society. One that shouldn't be ignored, least of all by those who want to keep the progressive stuff going. This goes double if our economy contracts as it looks like it will and some, even quite a few people's concerns are glossed over. Ignore them at your peril.

Outfits like the National party are a joke, but it wouldn't take much to shift the tide if a party emerged who was more conservative, or if that came from an existing party.

ExMachina1000

Tell me how wrote: »

Ok, but, is it not the case that the situations in direct provision are indeed very poor for some people? The access to food for babies outside of regular meal times for example or the general quality of meals provided. Do you believe that travellers are not discriminated against when you see the response towards them on places such as this.

In terms of immigration fraud, or employment rates, or traveler crime? How do you know these things happen? Is it not because it has been reported in the media at some point? Can you see how moving from reporting a crime or case to suggesting that all members of that community are likely/possibly/maybe behaving in the same way is a prejudiced approach to take?

All of your first paragraph is true. I agree and I am well aware of it because its reported regularly. Direct provision is on the news in some form almost daily now.

The segments I gave examples are only 2 out of the side of life we dont hear about.
It's not saying pick on people. Of course not.
My point is the news isn't balanced. They are choosing to only look at one side of life around us.

This is no different with right sided media. They would ignore the difficult conditions in direct provision and wouldn't report on refugees settling well into a community.
They choose their side too

After writing that I don't think that there is such thing as totally unbiased media. You want to know your audience.

Ireland's media has chosen the left

Invidious

Tell me how wrote: »

Ok, but, is it not the case that the situations in direct provision are indeed very poor for some people?

Conditions may well be less than optimal, but direct provision was only ever intended to provide temporary accommodation for people who are allegedly fleeing war, genocide, and persecution in their home countries.

The solution? Speed up the process and put an end to endless legal appeals. Genuine asylum seekers should be granted refugee status quickly, while fraudsters should also get deported quickly. Nobody should be spending years living in these facilities.

In terms of immigration fraud, or employment rates, or traveler crime? How do you know these things happen? Is it not because it has been reported in the media at some point?

The media has indeed reported on Traveller crime in the past — but since Travellers acquired ethnic minority status, journalists have become reluctant to identify criminals as belonging to that group, for fear of being branded racist. It has led to the media self-censoring its reporting in ways that do not benefit the Irish people at all.

ExMachina1000

excludedbin wrote: »

Oh pull the other one. We absolutely do hear about immigration fraud and Travellers committing crimes but the sad truth is it's just not at the level you lot think it is, so you make up these fanciful ideas to explain it. Unless you somehow have access to evidence that proves the opposite. Which is always the most tedious part of all this, none of you can ever present anything to prove that these matters are as bad as you claim.

No you are missing my point. I'm not just talking about refugees and travellers. They were examples.

excludedbin

That's fine but my point still stands. It's easy to claim something isn't being talked about while not having evidence that it exists in the first place, or exists to the extent you say. You don't seem to have considered that you could be the one who's wrong about it existing to that extent and in spite of not being able to find evidence to back up your beliefs, you still believe it. Because if it's as pervasive as so many people make these things out to be, it should be easy to present evidence of that.

But they don't.

Invidious

excludedbin wrote: »

Because if it's as pervasive as so many people make these things out to be, it should be easy to present evidence of that.

But they don't.

We have ample evidence of pervasive criminality among Travellers. They account for just 0.6% of the Irish population, and yet 22% of the country's female prisoners and 15% of its male prisoners are Travellers.

KiKi III

excludedbin wrote: »

Oh pull the other one. We absolutely do hear about immigration fraud and Travellers committing crimes but the sad truth is it's just not at the level you lot think it is, so you make up these fanciful ideas to explain it. Unless you somehow have access to evidence that proves the opposite. Which is always the most tedious part of all this, none of you can ever present anything to prove that these matters are as bad as you claim.

100% this.

KiKi III

Wibbs wrote: »

60 odd % in both cases, though that leaves a third of those who voted against both. That's a fair chunk of people. Divorce was rejected and then got through next time by the skin of its teeth. The vote to stop the automatic passport by virtue of birth here was passed in favour by over two thirds of those who voted. Direct provision isn't exactly popular. Never mind the also ran no hoper presidential candidate who went from last to second in the final polls on the back of a statement against Travellers.

Ireland has changed yes and for the better for the most part, but there is still a more traditional, even "right wing" streak in our society. One that shouldn't be ignored, least of all by those who want to keep the progressive stuff going. This goes double if our economy contracts as it looks like it will and some, even quite a few people's concerns are glossed over. Ignore them at your peril.

Outfits like the National party are a joke, but it wouldn't take much to shift the tide if a party emerged who was more conservative, or if that came from an existing party.

No traction for Aontú or Renua either compared with say the Social Democrats. The PDs never caught hold and died a fairly swift death.

It genuinely doesn’t seem like the Irish electorate is interested in a right-wing party.

Silentcorner

KiKi III wrote: »

No traction for Aontú or Renua either compared with say the Social Democrats. The PDs never caught hold and died a fairly swift death.

It genuinely doesn’t seem like the Irish electorate is interested in a right-wing party.

Or perhaps the conservative Irish voter is a little more discerning than those on the left...The PDs won 14 seats first time out...they eventually succumbed to the FF wing of the party under the leadership of Mary Harney and became FF lite.

The left in Irish politics has always suffered from fragmentation allowing small irrelevant political entities like the SDs/PBP/Solidarity etc exist ...never enter government of course....god forbid they might end up losing their seats and well paid jobs with it...principled to a very shallow point.

Invidious

KiKi III wrote: »

The PDs never caught hold and died a fairly swift death.

The PDs were around from 1985 to 2009, so they didn't exactly die a swift death. Briefly the country's third-largest party after the 1987 general election, they were the junior coalition partner in four different FF-led governments. Their policies of deregulation and tax cuts were hugely influential in shaping the Celtic Tiger economy — not least because the larger parties adopted them and ran with them.

If one party shaped Ireland more than any other between the late 80s and mid-2000s, it was the PDs.

KiKi III

Invidious wrote: »

The PDs were around from 1985 to 2009, so they didn't exactly die a swift death. Briefly the country's third-largest party after the 1987 general election, they were the junior coalition partner in four different FF-led governments. Their policies of deregulation and tax cuts were hugely influential in shaping the Celtic Tiger economy — not least because the larger parties adopted them and ran with them.

If one party shaped Ireland more than any other between the late 80s and mid-2000s, it was the PDs.

After their first election they never had more than 10 TDs, oscillating between 4 and 8 for most of their existence. Granted they did have more impact than most parties of that size would due to their parts in coalitions, I think it’s massively overstating it to say they shaped Ireland more than FF between the 80s and mid 00s.

Either way, my point was they never captured the imagination of the electorate after their first outing. There’s no real demand for a right wing party.

Aontú ran 25 candidates and only Toibín got elected. Renua was founded the same year as the Social Democrats and has no elected representatives compared with 6 TDs and 18 local councillors for the SDs.

KiKi III

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Was micheal mcdowell not their leader in end,when finding himself voted out,winded up party and went back working as soliciter??



Like it was in middle of deep recession,in which con-right wing,tell us that a anti-immigration,low tax party would prosper.....they wound up.the party??


Their slashing of regulations and red tape rethoric to be pro-business was ultimately bore out in banks running riot and bankrupting state??


That being said,everyone should have their views represented,so a PD mk2 should exist

They wound up the party because there were only two of them left.

Tell me how

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

All of your first paragraph is true. I agree and I am well aware of it because its reported regularly. Direct provision is on the news in some form almost daily now.

The segments I gave examples are only 2 out of the side of life we dont hear about.
It's not saying pick on people. Of course not.
My point is the news isn't balanced. They are choosing to only look at one side of life around us.

This is no different with right sided media. They would ignore the difficult conditions in direct provision and wouldn't report on refugees settling well into a community.
They choose their side too

After writing that I don't think that there is such thing as totally unbiased media. You want to know your audience.

Ireland's media has chosen the left

I'm not so sure that you could say Irish media has 'chosen the left' but more so that the Irish media is reflective of Irish society. You do have people who are generally in favour of progressive ideals but you also have people who are more conservative in their view points.

KiKi III

KiKi III wrote: »

They wound up the party because there were only two of them left.

:pac:


I assumed there was a party structure behind them,as they were in government and surely would have attracted members