Polish Presidential election

gmisk

kooreczka wrote: »

I grew up in rural Poland in a good home with catholic values. I've seen how badly gay people were treated and when I realised I was gay myself I wanted give up and die as it was totally unacceptable to be gay in Poland. I decided to leave when graduated from college. I live in Ireland for last 14 years and not planning to go back home even though I miss it badly. Choosing Duda for president seems like nothing changed for passed 14 years and will not change in the neartest future, sadly.
As per previous comments I just love how PiS supporters point at muslim countries being worse than Poland. They are not in Europe and have different values altogether. Typical politics of what PiS does in Poland to turn head from real problem and point out on something else/worse and their problem doesn't seem so bad then. This is a huge problem young people will commit suicides because of lack of tolerance and resoursces to deal with their indentity in the "lgbt free zones" and the sad part is this is so avoidalbe. Duda is not a president for everyone he is not even sticking to his own mind he will sign everything Kaczynski ask for and politics of hate is what they do. Wonder who they gonna target in next election...

Wow that was powerful stuff, thanks for sharing.
I know a gay couple who are polish they did similar got out of Poland as soon as they feasibly could, one of them was very badly assaulted in a homophobic attack. They now are happily married and living in Germany. They miss Poland as well but doubt they would move back.

Bonniedog

Deleted User wrote: »

Below is an excerpt from an eu discussion on banning fascist and neo nazi rallies.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-8-2018-0428_EN.html?redirect




Can see some photos as examples here.
https://eeradicalization.com/extremism-in-poland/

No swastikas.

"A group of marginal characters with hardly any influence in Poland," is what your link describes them as, but you have attempted to taint the fkn government with this infantile cr@p

Seamai

kooreczka wrote: »

I grew up in rural Poland in a good home with catholic values. I've seen how badly gay people were treated and when I realised I was gay myself I wanted give up and die as it was totally unacceptable to be gay in Poland. I decided to leave when graduated from college. I live in Ireland for last 14 years and not planning to go back home even though I miss it badly. Choosing Duda for president seems like nothing changed for passed 14 years and will not change in the neartest future, sadly.
As per previous comments I just love how PiS supporters point at muslim countries being worse than Poland. They are not in Europe and have different values altogether. Typical politics of what PiS does in Poland to turn head from real problem and point out on something else/worse and their problem doesn't seem so bad then. This is a huge problem young people will commit suicides because of lack of tolerance and resoursces to deal with their indentity in the "lgbt free zones" and the sad part is this is so avoidalbe. Duda is not a president for everyone he is not even sticking to his own mind he will sign everything Kaczynski ask for and politics of hate is what they do. Wonder who they gonna target in next election...

I hope you have a happy life here Kooreczka though you shouldn't have to leave your own country to find it and I know part of you will always miss your family and friends and what you left behind.

If I can offer you just a little glimmer of hope, the Ireland I grew up in, coming out in the early 80's wasn't a great place to be gay, now I don't think it was as bad as Poland but many gay people left, to Britain and the US mainly, half of my friends did to make new lives for themselves, thankfully many have returned and to a country that as a gay person they barely recognize. If someone told me even 15 years ago that that 63% of people here would vote for same sex marriage or that we'd have an openly gay Taoiseach I wouldn't have believed them.
In some ways it doesn't feel like the country I grew up in but what it proves to me is that people's attitudes towards the LGBT community can change, unfortunately we have only one life and that change may not happen in time for some.

Mr. Karate

Limpy wrote: »

Regarding the election, I was surprised it was that tight. I thought Duda would of won More comfortably.

If Bosak didn't run he probably would have.

gmisk

Mr. Karate wrote: »

If Bosak didn't run he probably would have.

Bosak wasn't in the run off...it was a two horse race.

Bonniedog

If Bosak hadn't run in the first round Duda would most likely have won without a second round. They had over 50% combined.

Sir Oxman

I'm very happy Poles of various opinions are posting in this thread - interesting to hear the different perspectives.

weldoninhio

Cordell wrote: »

No, it's not. But it's often used as a justification for committing crimes.
Patriots aim to make their country a better place, and these people will do the opposite, if they will have their way the country will be a worse place for everyone including themselves.
Let's take for example Ireland and Poland, I think it's obvious which country is better and which one is moving in the right direction. Those people marching want Poland to move in the opposite direction.

I was in Poland a few months ago visiting a friend who transferred there in work. Wroclaw. Beautiful city, cost of living is very low, couldn’t spend money. Saw no crime while over there. No junkies or beggars, apart from the occasional Roma who the police dealt with extremely quickly. If I spoke the language I’d be living over there in a shot. But Ireland is better because multiculturalism or something. Me arse.

Mr. Karate

weldoninhio wrote: »

I was in Poland a few months ago visiting a friend who transferred there in work. Wroclaw. Beautiful city, cost of living is very low, couldn’t spend money. Saw no crime while over there. No junkies or beggars, apart from the occasional Roma who the police dealt with extremely quickly. If I spoke the language I’d be living over there in a shot. But Ireland is better because multiculturalism or something. Me arse.

I don't speak Polish and I want to move there. I was in Warsaw back in 2018 and loved every minute of it. Let the West burn. This Plastic Paddy ain't going to defend the people who call me plastic paddy against who they call "New Irish".

JoChervil

suicide_circus wrote: »

a picture paints a thousand words

Well, so what will you say about this map? On the left are provinces on the right are counties. Duda won in villages and small towns in the east, while Trzaskowski won in big cities in the west more modern part of Poland.

JoChervil

Only 23% of Poles living in Ireland voted for Duda.

In Poland Duda was all the time prized on Polish national TV, while the same TV, which is supposed to give objective picture was attacking Trzaskowski.

On Catholic TV 3 days before election Kaczynski said that Trzaskowski would introduce forced euthanasia for older people and it can only be prevented by voting for Duda.

I am ashamed Poland has a such president. It is the same muppet like Trump or Johnson...

JoChervil

Before 1980 Poland was a socialist country, so left wing. Left wing is usually more modern in thinking, yet economically rarely viable. But polish women had equal rights. All them pictured in men's roles on communist posters. Going to church was not well seen then. That's why John Paul II was made a Pope. It was to conquer the communists. And it worked. So now Poland went other way too far and become extremely conservative. So it went backwards.

PiS won in 2015 because it bought it. It gave away money earned by previous government.

They spent enormous amount of government money for Duda's campaign. Government, public media and church hardly worked to achieve this. It was a very uneven fight.

And now 35 years of freedom is lost. I am devastated....

sameoldname

Mr. Karate wrote: »

I don't speak Polish and I want to move there. I was in Warsaw back in 2018 and loved every minute of it. Let the West burn. This Plastic Paddy ain't going to defend the people who call me plastic paddy against who they call "New Irish".

So you don't like the immigrants in this country and to solve this problem for yourself the solution you came up with is you want to emigrate and become an immigrant in a foreign country?

strandroad

Bonniedog wrote: »

Ponder for a moment why Polish nationalists, right, left or centre might not be exactly enamoured of Nazism

And yet antisemitism, up to and including the burning of a Jewish effigy in Wroclaw city square, is a regular theme during nationalist marches. Hard to fathom. A nice family day out for some I guess.

https://wroclawuncut.com/2017/10/06/man-who-burned-jewish-effigy-looks-set-to-avoid-prison1/



https://wroclawuncut.com/2015/11/12/record-turnout-for-march-of-the-patriots/

Cal4567

https://www.thejournal.ie/poland-election-duda-rule-of-law-result-lgbt-5148992-Jul2020/

A news piece from the journal about this that just reads like an opinion piece. The comments are comedy gold. Even the photo has him as evil. Whatever happened to independent journalism?

The journal is really just becoming our version of the UK's Guardian and like that paper I see they have recently resorted to asking for money to survive.

CiniO

JoChervil wrote: »

Only 23% of Poles living in Ireland voted for Duda.

In Poland Duda was all the time prized on Polish national TV, while the same TV, which is supposed to give objective picture was attacking Trzaskowski.

On Catholic TV 3 days before election Kaczynski said that Trzaskowski would introduce forced euthanasia for older people and it can only be prevented by voting for Duda.

I am ashamed Poland has a such president. It is the same muppet like Trump or Johnson...

I agree that Duda is not a good president, but Trzaskowski would be much worse option anyway...

PiS is not a good party for government in Poland, but opposite PO would be even worse.

Maybe in few years, Polish people will be tired of them both, and something new will emerge hopefully.

Cordell

weldoninhio wrote: »

I was in Poland a few months ago visiting a friend who transferred there in work. Wroclaw. Beautiful city, cost of living is very low, couldn’t spend money. Saw no crime while over there. No junkies or beggars, apart from the occasional Roma who the police dealt with extremely quickly. If I spoke the language I’d be living over there in a shot. But Ireland is better because multiculturalism or something. Me arse.

I never said that. In fact is quite the opposite, Ireland is a desirable country to live in so this is why it attracts all sort of people. Poland is in no danger to become multicultural because no one wants to go there, not even you, since you let some minor inconvenience to stop you, you can learn the language just as they can learn English or German or whatever country they choose to go to.
Also, you couldn't spend money because you were enjoying the Irish level of income.

biko

Cal4567 wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/poland-election-duda-rule-of-law-result-lgbt-5148992-Jul2020/

A news piece from the journal about this that just reads like an opinion piece. The comments are comedy gold. Even the photo has him as evil. Whatever happened to independent journalism?

The journal is really just becoming our version of the UK's Guardian and like that paper I see they have recently resorted to asking for money to survive.

Swedish Television went to Poland to cover the election.
They claimed to have grave difficulties finding a person that was going to vote for Duda.

This in Polish but use a translation service https://nyheteridag.se/szwedzka-telewizja-publiczna-obiektem-kpin-za-korespondencje-z-wyborow-prezydenckich-w-polsce/

JoChervil

CiniO wrote: »

I agree that Duda is not a good president, but Trzaskowski would be much worse option anyway...

PiS is not a good party for government in Poland, but opposite PO would be even worse.

Maybe in few years, Polish people will be tired of them both, and something new will emerge hopefully.

It is not about, who is personally a president. It is about absolute power. If President, Government and Courts are in one hand it is a straight way to dictatorship. They didn't managed to do it in time during last his term but now they have 3 more years to overtake courts completely.

And "absolute power corrupts absolutely".

There will be no real election in Poland in future. It will be like in Russia. To return to democracy next Solidarity or revolution will be needed .

It is so sad and half of Poles don't get it believing TV propaganda...

JoChervil

biko wrote: »

Swedish Television went to Poland to cover the election.
They claimed to have grave difficulties finding a person that was going to vote for Duda.

This in Polish but use a translation service https://nyheteridag.se/szwedzka-telewizja-publiczna-obiektem-kpin-za-korespondencje-z-wyborow-prezydenckich-w-polsce/

And I believe that for sure they couldn't find such people in Warsaw. They should have gone to an easter village.

Mr. Karate

JoChervil wrote: »

Before 1980 Poland was a socialist country, so left wing. Left wing is usually more modern in thinking,

There is nothing modern about bringing us back into Socialism and there is nothing modern thinking about unlimited immigration of a religious group stuck in the bronze age that wants to undo the Left's so societal progress.

Mr. Karate

sameoldname wrote: »

So you don't like the immigrants in this country and to solve this problem for yourself the solution you came up with is you want to emigrate and become an immigrant in a foreign country?

You and the rest of the Irish want to go extinct don't expect me to save you.

Mr. Karate

Mr. Karate wrote: »

You and the rest of the Irish want to go extinct don't expect me to save you.

Are you a white nationalist? Sounds distinctly like you are.

Bonniedog

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you a white nationalist? Sounds distinctly like you are.

What is wrong with being a nationalist?

If it were not for "white" nationalists here the union jack would still be flying over the GPO.

And if it were not for Polish nationalists, they would not have defeated the Moscow controlled left and won freedoms like being able to elect their own government.

CiniO

JoChervil wrote: »

It is not about, who is personally a president. It is about absolute power. If President, Government and Courts are in one hand it is a straight way to dictatorship. They didn't managed to do it in time during last his term but now they have 3 more years to overtake courts completely.

And "absolute power corrupts absolutely".

There will be no real election in Poland in future. It will be like in Russia. To return to democracy next Solidarity or revolution will be needed .

It is so sad and half of Poles don't get it believing TV propaganda...

I saved this post, and set a reminder 4 years from now so we can return to it and talk again.
We'll see if your tragic predictions will come true...
I personally don't belive they will.

RandomName2

spurious wrote: »

A Polish friend tonight described it as putting Poland back 40 years.

In shocking revelation, Duda turns out to be secretly communist.

biko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfAOWoCQ_Bg

Warsaw and Bialystok residents reacted to the re-election of Polish President Andrzej Duda on Monday as he beat his opponent Rafal Trzaskowski in a tight second round.

Most people from Bialystok, the largest city in northeastern Poland, appeared to be satisfied with the final results of the elections and Duda's win stating the incumbent president has done a lot for the country, while people in Warsaw were more discreet.
"I can trust our officials now. Duda has shown how much he has done in recent years," said a woman from Bialystok, adding "The worst was his opponent. It was such hate in his speeches."
Another Bialystok resident said: "I'm happy with the results of the election. Higher pensions, disability pensions, more than 500 [zlotys]. It's all helpful to society."

On the contrary, Poles in the capital felt disappointed by the election outcome with many expressing their support for Duda's opponent and Warsaw mayor Trzaskowski.
Duda "is not a democratic president like Trzaskowski," Justyna said in Warsaw.
"I wanted someone new [for president] who would perform better," another Warsaw resident Brygida continued.

Bonniedog

Warsaw liberals sound just as stupid as our own breed.

biko

Well, their own horse lost and he has to resign to only be Warsaw mayor again.

excludedbin

Bonniedog wrote: »

What is wrong with being a nationalist?

If it were not for "white" nationalists here the union jack would still be flying over the GPO.

And if it were not for Polish nationalists, they would not have defeated the Moscow controlled left and won freedoms like being able to elect their own government.

There was nothing "white nationalist" about the revolution. If it were not for German nationalism there wouldn't have been the conquest of Europe and gassing off of undesirables. If it weren't for nationalism there wouldn't have been the Blackshirts. If it weren't for nationalism there wouldn't have been Franco. If it weren't for nationalism there wouldn't still be neo-Nazi groups like Combat 18 and National Front.

Don't confuse fighting a violent invader with 'nationalism'. And don't confuse 'nationalism' in an Irish context (wanting an independent state) with 'nationalism' in the general sense (my people are better than all others and anyone who disagrees is our enemy).

strandroad

biko wrote: »

Most people from Bialystok, the largest city in northeastern Poland, appeared to be satisfied with the final results of the elections and Duda's win stating the incumbent president has done a lot for the country, while people in Warsaw were more discreet.
"I can trust our officials now. Duda has shown how much he has done in recent years," said a woman from Bialystok, adding "The worst was his opponent. It was such hate in his speeches."
Another Bialystok resident said: "I'm happy with the results of the election. Higher pensions, disability pensions, more than 500 [zlotys]. It's all helpful to society."

Great example of the geographical divide we could see on the maps shared upthread. Bialystok sure has its share of issues.

Saturday, July 20 saw around 800 members of the LGBT+ and allied community march through Bialystok for the city’s first-ever Pride march. Attendees faced stones, glass bottles and firecrackers pelted by ultra-nationalists clad in soccer gear.

The extremists resorted to brutality to express their homophobic disgust; videos on social media show physical assaults of LGBT+ youth and the burning of stolen pride flags, while the chants ‘Bialystok free of perverts’ and ‘God, honour and motherland’ attempt to overpower the LGBT+ campaigners proclaiming that ‘love is not a sin’.

https://gcn.ie/bialystok-pride-violence-police/

Bonniedog

excludedbin wrote: »

There was nothing "white nationalist" about the revolution. .

I was being facetious using the term "white" nationalist.

They were white and they were nationalists.

I have heard some latter day shinners claim they were not nationalists. Which is quite bizarre, would you not agree?

Soviet and Chinese Communism by the way were just as aggressive as the Nazis in their nationalism and suppression of ethnic minorities. Franco never invaded anywhere, so your analysis is tenuous.

excludedbin

Bonniedog wrote: »

I was being facetious using the term "white" nationalist.

They were white and they were nationalists.

But they weren't "white nationalists", which was the point you were responding to. "White nationalism" is a distinct political term with its own distinct meaning that isn't applicable to them. Being white and being a nationalist doesn't automatically make one a "white nationalist" but supporting a white ethnostate does, which is the point the person you were responding to.

I have heard some latter day shinners claim they were not nationalists. Which is quite bizarre, would you not agree?

Not nationalists in the general sense, nationalists in the Irish sense (supporting an all-Ireland republic). So no, not bizarre, once you even try to understand their point and the incredibly obvious distinction between the two.

Soviet and Chinese Communism by the way were just as aggressive as the Nazis in their nationalism and suppression of ethnic minorities. Franco never invaded anywhere, so your analysis is tenuous.

How was my remark tenuous? Franco was nationalist, that was all my point was, I very clearly did not say anything more about him than that.

biko

excludedbin wrote: »

'nationalism' in the general sense (my people are better than all others and anyone who disagrees is our enemy).

I think you're confusing nationalism with racism. Are they the same to you?

Bonniedog

Bonniedog wrote: »

What is wrong with being a nationalist?

If it were not for "white" nationalists here the union jack would still be flying over the GPO.

And if it were not for Polish nationalists, they would not have defeated the Moscow controlled left and won freedoms like being able to elect their own government.

They weren't white nationalists...

biko wrote: »

I think you're confusing nationalism with racism. Are they the same to you?

White nationalism and ethnonationalism amounts to rebranding of white supremacists.

biko

Is Palestinian nationalism bad or good?
Is Ethiopian nationalism bad or good?
Is Kurdish nationalism bad or good?
Is French nationalism bad or good?
Is Polish nationalism bad or good?

Why is self-determination good for some and bad for others?

Bonniedog

Deleted User wrote: »

They weren't white nationalists...



.

Well they were white - or the Irish pink version at least - and they were nationalists.

Post bellum Shinners - not saying you are one - deny that they were nationalists.
Then again one of them also claimed that Bobby Sands died for gay rights!

Bonniedog

Bonniedog wrote: »

Well they were white - or the Irish pink version at least - and they were nationalists.

Post bellum Shinners - not saying you are one - deny that they were nationalists.
Then again one of them also claimed that Bobby Sands died for gay rights!

There's a substantial difference between white nationalisms and nationalism in relation to the founding of the state. White Nationalists push an agenda of an ethnostate where everyone is white... So your tangents are irrelevant.

biko

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a substantial difference between white nationalisms and nationalism in relation to the founding of the state. White Nationalists push an agenda of an ethnostate where everyone is white... So your tangents are irrelevant.

But you support black separatism?

biko

biko wrote: »

But you support black separatism?

Nope...

excludedbin

biko wrote: »

I think you're confusing nationalism with racism. Are they the same to you?

If your idea of nationalism is based on the idea that your race is superior to all others then yeah, I'd say that's quite clearly racist.

biko wrote: »

Is Palestinian nationalism bad or good?
Is Ethiopian nationalism bad or good?
Is Kurdish nationalism bad or good?
Is French nationalism bad or good?
Is Polish nationalism bad or good?

Why is self-determination good for some and bad for others?

Because different peoples have different circumstances. Are the French or Polish fighting off brutal oppressors annexing their territory? It's not exactly a complicated concept. Most adults are capable of understanding that different circumstances are judged differently.

Bonniedog wrote: »

Well they were white - or the Irish pink version at least - and they were nationalists.

Post bellum Shinners - not saying you are one - deny that they were nationalists.
Then again one of them also claimed that Bobby Sands died for gay rights!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nationalism
Keep pretending you don't understand the difference.

sameoldname

Mr. Karate wrote: »

You and the rest of the Irish want to go extinct don't expect me to save you.

Save me? Save me from what? Do you consider yourself a superhero or something? Is your superpower to greatly exaggerate your own importance to others? It's quite a gift!

biko

excludedbin wrote: »

If your idea of nationalism is based on the idea that your race is superior to all others then yeah, I'd say that's quite clearly racist.

It's your idea. I don't think anyone else here agrees with you.

excludedbin

It's not my idea, it's simply how nationalism is commonly expressed. That many here don't want to acknowledge that isn't really my problem.

Bonniedog

Nationalism is either separatist or expansionary. It has nothing to do with right or left.

Russian nationalism under socialists was expansionary and indeed genocidal. Same applies still to the Chinese Communist Party. Likewise the African socialists in Eritrea and elsewhere who had similar motivations.

BLM separatism under your rubric would therefore have a lot in common with white ethnocentrism. would it not?

OMM 0000

He's very anti-gay.

I always find these anti-gay folks interesting.

Why are they thinking about gay guys? Why do they care what some random men are doing in their bedrooms?

I like women hence I almost never think about gay men. But I think if I was bisexual or in the closet I'd probably be thinking about gay guys and what they do in the bedroom...

So I wonder if these anti-gay guys are just trying to cancel the uncomfortable (unwanted) feelings they have for men...

chocolock

CiniO wrote: »

I agree that Duda is not a good president, but Trzaskowski would be much worse option anyway...

PiS is not a good party for government in Poland, but opposite PO would be even worse.

Maybe in few years, Polish people will be tired of them both, and something new will emerge hopefully.

Don't agree with this. Anybody would have been better than Duda. With nobody in opposition, Kaczyński can do whatever he wants.
Plenty of dodgy decisions made overnight to come over the next few years.

excludedbin

Bonniedog wrote: »

Nationalism is either separatist or expansionary. It has nothing to do with right or left.

Russian nationalism under socialists was expansionary and indeed genocidal. Same applies still to the Chinese Communist Party. Likewise the African socialists in Eritrea and elsewhere who had similar motivations.

BLM separatism under your rubric would therefore have a lot in common with white ethnocentrism. would it not?

No, nationalism is not only separatist or expansionary, it can absolutely be about maintaining one's own territory. Considering you appear not to understand that "white nationalism" is a distinct concept in politics, I don't believe there's anything to be gained from engaging with you further about this. Either you're talking about something you don't understand or you're looking for a reaction. I'm guessing it's the latter so look elsewhere.

CiniO

OMM 0000 wrote: »

He's very anti-gay.

I always find these anti-gay folks interesting.

Why are they thinking about gay guys? Why do they care what some random men are doing in their bedrooms?

I like women hence I almost never think about gay men. But I think if I was bisexual or in the closet I'd probably be thinking about gay guys and what they do in the bedroom...

So I wonder if these anti-gay guys are just trying to cancel the uncomfortable (unwanted) feelings they have for men...

By "he" you mean Duda ?
Trzaskowski is anti-gay too.

In fact vast majority of candidates (I think 10 out of 11) was very anti-gay and they publically said during the presidential debate that they would definitely vote against allowing gay marriages in Poland.

Fact is though, that it was just their strategy, as seems like that's exactly what Polish people wanted to hear.

Unless social perception of gay people and LGBT movement change in Poland, until then all candidates for President or for parliament or for local authrities will be always agaist it to match electoral opinion.

We don't need to change government, but we need to change social perception among Polish citizens.

CiniO

chocolock wrote: »

Don't agree with this. Anybody would have been better than Duda. With nobody in opposition, Kaczyński can do whatever he wants.
Plenty of dodgy decisions made overnight to come over the next few years.

I don't think so, and I would be surprised if there were any dodgy decisions leading effectively to dictatorship like it was mentioned here before.

On the other hand, if Trzaskowski was elected, he would do everything he could to make PiS government fail, by blocking all necessery administrative and economical decisions and reforms, which I believe PiS will fulfill rightly with Duda.