Location of Water Pipe

Bawnmore

We're currently looking at options for relocating our water pump before having a water treatment system installed. The water is drawn directly from a lake across the road from the house and the pump is currently under a metal enclosure at the back of the house. Is there any way to find out what route the water pipe takes from the lake to the pump without digging? House was built in 1970 and is a standard 4 bed bungalow.

dazed+confused

How do you plan to treat the water before drinking? How many steps are in the system you are purchasing and what are they?

CaptainCoPilot

You would hope it is a fairly straight line from the lake to the pump house.

There are companies that do this as a service, they find underground pipes and provide a map. Not sure of cost though. Might be worth looking into.

Another option would be to connect a pipe to where the pump currently is and run the pipe to your new pump location, then into the house from there.

Bawnmore

dazed+confused wrote: »

How do you plan to treat the water before drinking? How many steps are in the system you are purchasing and what are they?

We're in an area with no mains or group scheme, so we can avail of a water treatment grant which covers 75% of the cost of a treatment system. We've got quotes in from 5 companies who've based system suggestions off of our water analysis tests we had carried out. An example of one I have here to hand is:

10x54 Filter Agg Unit
10x54 Colour and Turbidity Unit
GPM UV unit with Pre Filter
Stella Reverse Osmosis Unit

You would hope it is a fairly straight line from the lake to the pump house.

The pump is at the back of the house and the lake is at the front of the house - would they ever lay it under the foundation? If not, it must go around the house I guess.

There are companies that do this as a service, they find underground pipes and provide a map. Not sure of cost though. Might be worth looking into.

I might check that out - I was hoping there might be some public record of planning with the planned location of the pipe, but that might be wishful thinking.

Another option would be to connect a pipe to where the pump currently is and run the pipe to your new pump location, then into the house from there.

It's very possible that it passes right by the location we want to move it to which is why we're trying to find out I guess. We could extend it from there back, but I'd guess it comes that way already.

foxy farmer

You might laugh at what I'm going to suggest. Do you know anyone with the skill of water divining/dowsing.? They could trace the pipe.
I don't believe in the whole idea myself but it does work. I tried it out a few yrs back and I can find pipes and cables underground with just 2 L shaped pieces of fencing wire.

You could get a cobra reel with a sonde on the end and shove it down the pipe but if it meets an obstruction you're goosed

cletus

foxy farmer wrote: »

You might laugh at what I'm going to suggest. Do you know anyone with the skill of water divining/dowsing.? They could trace the pipe.
I don't believe in the whole idea myself but it does work. I tried it out a few yrs back and I can find pipes and cables underground with just 2 L shaped pieces of fencing wire.

You could get a cobra reel with a sonde on the end and shove it down the pipe but if it meets an obstruction you're goosed

You don't believe in it, but you can make it work?

dazed+confused

Can't you also use the same grant to subsidise the cost of drilling a well?

That would be my first choice.

Bawnmore

foxy farmer wrote: »

You might laugh at what I'm going to suggest. Do you know anyone with the skill of water divining/dowsing.? They could trace the pipe.
I don't believe in the whole idea myself but it does work. I tried it out a few yrs back and I can find pipes and cables underground with just 2 L shaped pieces of fencing wire.

You could get a cobra reel with a sonde on the end and shove it down the pipe but if it meets an obstruction you're goosed

Thanks for the suggestion - I wouldn't even know where to begin.

Can't you also use the same grant to subsidise the cost of drilling a well?

I can, but I'd assume (could be wrong) we'd be into entirely different money at that stage right? We'd also need to treat this water the same as we need to now. I'm genuinely interested in why it might be worth considering though, as I don't understand the benefit of one over the other.

The grant covers 75% up to €2050 (detailed here).

Bawnmore

This may add some context:



Red X is where the water is being drawn from.
Purple dot is where the pump is currently.
Green dot is where we're hoping to move the pump/treatment system to.

wayoutwest

Hi bawnmore -did a bit of dowsing for yer pipe. Looks like it runs in a metre or two from the northern end of house -right where you want to put the new pump.20200714_083729.jpg

wayoutwest

.......further dowsing suggests pipe is 1.5 metres out from house and around 0.5 metres below surface at the point where new pump will be.:)

Bawnmore

wayoutwest wrote: »

Hi bawnmore -did a bit of dowsing for yer pipe. Looks like it runs in a metre or two from the northern end of house -right where you want to put the new pump.20200714_083729.jpg

Wait what how?!?! What's happening here :pac:

Bawnmore

wayoutwest wrote: »

Hi bawnmore -did a bit of dowsing for yer pipe. Looks like it runs in a metre or two from the northern end of house -right where you want to put the new pump.20200714_083729.jpg

What's this from if you don't mind me asking?

wayoutwest

Bawnmore wrote: »

What's this from if you don't mind me asking?

Its from dowsing the map you posted (as opposed to actual on-site dowsing).

Bawnmore

wayoutwest wrote: »

Its from dowsing the map you posted (as opposed to actual on-site dowsing).

I've just done some reading on this as I'm not familiar with it at all. How dependable would this method typically be? I'm not overly precious about the area where we'd be planning on putting the water filtering system so it may be worth digging down to check there regardless in that case.

Tiercel Dave

Have you any idea where the water crosses the road, that would be a good starting point. If it was me I'd have laid the pipe beside the driveway so I'd be guessing to the right of the house as you enter.....

listermint

wayoutwest wrote: »

Its from dowsing the map you posted (as opposed to actual on-site dowsing).

needs tears emoji

muffler

wayoutwest wrote: »

Its from dowsing the map you posted (as opposed to actual on-site dowsing).

Nonsense!

longgonesilver

There are Some people who claim to be able to find things, usually missing people, on a map using their 'gifts'. Bring them the essence of the person and they will indicate the spot by holding a crystal over the map or by closing their eyes and sticking a pin in the map.

The pipe leaves the lake and then possibly goes under the road where there was an existing culvert or pipe under the road. This will be where the surface water flows from the house side towards the lake. You might be able to locate it there. At best guess it will then go in a relatively straight line towards the pump. It depends on the lie of the land at the time. They would have avoided roads, rocks the house etc.

If you can find the pipe at the road and carefully dig and follow it for a few feet and the same at the pump end you will get an indication of the direction it takes and the depth. A trench dug across the possible run of the pipe near to where you want the new pump should locate it. This is the suction side of the pump so if you hole the pipe you wont have a new fountain but air will be drawn into the pump and it will stop working.

Alun

As someone above said, there are companies who specialize in finding all kinds of buried utilities including water pipes. Just Google "underground water pipe detection" and it'll throw up a few hits.

Bawnmore

Tiercel Dave wrote: »

Have you any idea where the water crosses the road, that would be a good starting point. If it was me I'd have laid the pipe beside the driveway so I'd be guessing to the right of the house as you enter.....

I'll pop out and see if I can spot anything later, thanks.

The pipe leaves the lake and then possibly goes under the road where there was an existing culvert or pipe under the road. This will be where the surface water flows from the house side towards the lake. You might be able to locate it there. At best guess it will then go in a relatively straight line towards the pump. It depends on the lie of the land at the time. They would have avoided roads, rocks the house etc.

There's a ditch/drain on the house side of the road the whole way along so I might check there so as it would have needed to pass by there. I'll check that out later.

If you can find the pipe at the road and carefully dig and follow it for a few feet and the same at the pump end you will get an indication of the direction it takes and the depth. A trench dug across the possible run of the pipe near to where you want the new pump should locate it.

That sounds like a good approach. I'll see if I can locate the pipe 1st and take it from there. The pipe coming out of the pump is heading upwards upwards of the pump on the map above, so it may just take a turn at the corner of the house similar to the drawn map above.

As someone above said, there are companies who specialize in finding all kinds of buried utilities including water pipes. Just Google "underground water pipe detection" and it'll throw up a few hits.

I'll do that too - appreciate it.

Bawnmore

We haven't gotten any further than above, but wanted to float an alternative idea here.

The house is a bungalow and the water comes in to the house at one point (from the pump at the back of the house to the tank in the attic). Is there ever a case where the filtration system could also be in the attic? It seems like that'd be the easiest route (no digging, no need to build housing for it etc), but there could obviously be reasons why it shouldn't that we don't know about.

dazed+confused

Bawnmore wrote: »

We haven't gotten any further than above, but wanted to float an alternative idea here.

The house is a bungalow and the water comes in to the house at one point (from the pump at the back of the house to the tank in the attic). Is there ever a case where the filtration system could also be in the attic? It seems like that'd be the easiest route (no digging, no need to build housing for it etc), but there could obviously be reasons why it shouldn't that we don't know about.

Yep there is, filters leak and if a leak happens in your garage it isn't the end of the world. If it happens in your attic it might be.

Some filtration systems and all water softeners also need a drain outlet, which you are unlikely to have in your attic.

Outkast_IRE

You should be very careful about taking water from a lake or any standing body of water . Unless you are getting it regularly tested and your filtration and regular maintenance is on point , you are running a higher risk than with a well.

You could test the lake water now and it would be fine , after a bout of heavy rain, fertiliser spread upstream or anywhere on the water catchment area , dead animal or fishkill it could be seriously comprimised .

Bawnmore

I might try to get my head around what would be involved in drilling a well (as suggested above) and available grants. It looks like a new scheme has possibly come into place from last month that covers 85% of the cost of a new well up to €5k.

Purgative

Bawnmore, I don't want to pee on your chips but you could have the same problems that Outkast mentions with a well.


We have an old well here and considered going back to it a couple of years back. Two engineers (BiL and guy doing the planning permission) warned us about possible fertilizer, slurry and septic tank run off.

GreeBo

dazed+confused wrote: »

Yep there is, filters leak and if a leak happens in your garage it isn't the end of the world. If it happens in your attic it might be.

Some filtration systems and all water softeners also need a drain outlet, which you are unlikely to have in your attic.

Doesnt every attic have an overflow for the cold water tank?

(note that I dont disagree about putting it in the attic, but pretty much every other home has hundreds of litres of water stored up there in a tank already)

Bawnmore

Sorry to make this into a running commentary, but I guess it's as good a place as any as someone may be looking for the info in future. I spoke with the Galway CoCo water services just now and here are our options:

- Grant in place for 85% up to €5k for provision of a new well.
- If the water is tested and is undrinkable, 100% grant in place to cover treatment up to €1k.

listermint

Purgative wrote: »

Bawnmore, I don't want to pee on your chips but you could have the same problems that Outkast mentions with a well.


We have an old well here and considered going back to it a couple of years back. Two engineers (BiL and guy doing the planning permission) warned us about possible fertilizer, slurry and septic tank run off.

Less likely with a well, Also any system should have 2/3 stage filters in place and coupled with a UV Light treatment in it also.

Bawnmore

listermint wrote: »

Less likely with a well, Also any system should have 2/3 stage filters in place and coupled with a UV Light treatment in it also.

Correct - here's the wording for anyone interested:

The level of a grant is determined by the type of improvement works being undertaken and shall not exceed the following amounts:

(a)
(i) 85% of the approved costs for rehabilitation works, subject to a maximum of €3,000;
or
(ii) 85% of the approved costs for the provision of a new well, subject to a
maximum of €5,000 (where the housing authority agrees that this is the most
appropriate solution);

(b)
100% of the approved costs for works that, in the opinion of the housing
authority, are necessary to treat the water to meet the water quality standards
specified in the Regulations, subject to a maximum grant of €1,000. Examples
of such treatments are filtration or Ultra Violet treatment.

cocoman

Bawnmore, are you in a very remote location? How far away is the public main?

Bawnmore

cocoman wrote: »

Bawnmore, are you in a very remote location? How far away is the public main?

We're quite remote alright. I'm looking here and it's not showing any results for us or quite a few areas closest to the nearest town - https://www.water.ie/water-supply/water-quality/map/. No group scheme's close by either. There's a hotel very close to us who would also draw water from the lake and treat it I believe.