Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Grueller

straight wrote: »

Or the county council.

But if you had truck loads of storage, say growing maize to use up slurry and it was spread responsibly and were farming in a way that was not adversely affecting livestock or the environment, what gripe could the county council or the epa have with an arbitrary number dreamt up by a civil servant in an office?

straight

Grueller wrote: »

But if you had truck loads of storage, say growing maize to use up slurry and it was spread responsibly and were farming in a way that was not adversely affecting livestock or the environment, what gripe could the county council or the epa have with an arbitrary number dreamt up by a civil servant in an office?

I'm sure they would find some bit of legislation somewhere if they wanted to. The climate is number 1 now and that's not going to change. Water, biodiversity, greenhouse gasses are the be all and end all now. Sure we can import the food from South America and from glasshouses in Spain.

visatorro

whelan2 wrote:

Anyone get the allocation for the glanbia milk supply thing? Very happy here

Your peak supply management?

kevthegaff

straight wrote: »

I'm sure they would find some bit of legislation somewhere if they wanted to. The climate is number 1 now and that's not going to change. Water, biodiversity, greenhouse gasses are the be all and end all now. Sure we can import the food from South America and from glasshouses in Spain.

Where on high ground here, and all the farms in the area getting a council lad calling in unannounced for the last 12 months

green daries

straight wrote: »

I'm sure they would find some bit of legislation somewhere if they wanted to. The climate is number 1 now and that's not going to change. Water, biodiversity, greenhouse gasses are the be all and end all now. Sure we can import the food from South America and from glasshouses in Spain.

The Nitrates directive is a county council by law but an agreement was reached that the department of agriculture would implement the inspection regime after all the shenanigans of lads getting two or more inspection in a couple of weeks by different authorities

green daries

green daries wrote: »

The Nitrates directive is a county council by law but an agreement was reached that the department of agriculture would implement the inspection regime after all the shenanigans of lads getting two or more inspection in a couple of weeks by different authorities

They still have the power to inspect

Castlekeeper

straight wrote: »

I'm sure they would find some bit of legislation somewhere if they wanted to. The climate is number 1 now and that's not going to change. Water, biodiversity, greenhouse gasses are the be all and end all now. Sure we can import the food from South America and from glasshouses in Spain.

That's the current model, plus we export dairy commodities.

jd_12345

What are people using for reference costs for 7.5m dribble bar retrofit? Deciding last minute to put in an application and advisor is telling me not to bother just get in a contractor. We currently Have a fresh (2014 2000 gallon major with very little done) tanker and during summer would like to follow cows without having to wait for contractor to spread 6/7 acres at a time.

Edit: I'm filling in the application online myself atm before tomorrow's deadline and wondering what reference cost to put down

Reggie.

jd_12345 wrote: »

What are people using for reference costs for 7.5m dribble bar retrofit? Deciding last minute to put in an application and advisor is telling me not to bother just get in a contractor. We currently Have a fresh (2014 2000 gallon major with very little done) tanker and during summer would like to follow cows without having to wait for contractor to spread 6/7 acres at a time.

New your talking about 13k to 15k inc vat

atlantic mist

asked council to fill in a few pot holes at by our entrance, they said its our responsibility blaming rain water flowing down a lane, and if a car blows a wheel its our responsibility, the road gets resurfaced ever 13 years

are we allowed close road ourselves to fix? are we allowed fill pot holes in with concrete as we dont have access to tar?

Mooooo

If the pot holes are on a public road it's there responsibility. If water is coming down the lane to cause it that you can prevent or rectify on your own property do so but the council should do the road

visatorro

atlantic mist wrote:

asked council to fill in a few pot holes at by our entrance, they said its our responsibility blaming rain water flowing down a lane, and if a car blows a wheel its our responsibility, the road gets resurfaced ever 13 years

Don't like bashing anyone but Iv tried dealing with my Co Co twice recently. Most unhelpful, over paid, under worked and over paid shower of half rotten dung that couldn't organise a good riot in the North.

straight

jd_12345 wrote: »

What are people using for reference costs for 7.5m dribble bar retrofit? Deciding last minute to put in an application and advisor is telling me not to bother just get in a contractor. We currently Have a fresh (2014 2000 gallon major with very little done) tanker and during summer would like to follow cows without having to wait for contractor to spread 6/7 acres at a time.

I've got approval for a new 2000g tank and 7.5m dribble bar. I see now I could actually buy a second hand tank and retrofit a new dribble bar so some second hand tanks might be worth a look. Derogation farmers aren't allowed to apply any longer but I'm sure if I'm already approved I will be able to draw down.

Injuryprone

atlantic mist wrote: »

asked council to fill in a few pot holes at by our entrance, they said its our responsibility blaming rain water flowing down a lane, and if a car blows a wheel its our responsibility, the road gets resurfaced ever 13 years

are we allowed close road ourselves to fix? are we allowed fill pot holes in with concrete as we dont have access to tar?

Get that response in writing I'd say

straight

A decade of pain they are calling it...

Key targets in the Agri food strategy 2030.

Climate-neutral agriculture sector by 2050, with substantial verifiable progress by 2030.
Water quality - agriculture will reduce nutrient losses to water by 50% by 2030.
Biodiversity - 10% of farmed area prioritised for biodiversity and 30% of marine protected areas by 2030.
Air quality - reduce ammonia emissions below 107,500t by 2030.


implies a cut of 55,500t is needed in nitrogen use by 2030

Some 10% of farmed land is to be prioritised for biodiversity under the draft strategy

AgClimatise makes clear that an increase in the national cattle herd above current levels will jeopardise the achievement of the sector attaining climate neutrality by 2050,

Say my name

straight wrote: »

A decade of pain they are calling it...

Key targets in the Agri food strategy 2030.

Climate-neutral agriculture sector by 2050, with substantial verifiable progress by 2030.
Water quality - agriculture will reduce nutrient losses to water by 50% by 2030.
Biodiversity - 10% of farmed area prioritised for biodiversity and 30% of marine protected areas by 2030.
Air quality - reduce ammonia emissions below 107,500t by 2030.


implies a cut of 55,500t is needed in nitrogen use by 2030

Some 10% of farmed land is to be prioritised for biodiversity under the draft strategy

AgClimatise makes clear that an increase in the national cattle herd above current levels will jeopardise the achievement of the sector attaining climate neutrality by 2050,

Dawggone has been flagging the fertilizer possibility since he came on here decades ago.
For the pen pushers it's a real easy target.

Listening to a little about it this evening on the local wireless. And while this is a dairy thread tillage farming is going to be effected too. Fert restrictions will hit tilled ground more. They don't know it yet but the plough will go the same way as the slurry splashplate. Another box ticked.
Min tillage only with cover crops or winter crops over winter.
They're going on about mandatory feed additives for dairy stock.
I'm still concerned about protected urea and I'd like to see independent results on groundwater of these additives and more emphasis on effects of soil organic nitrogen from each product. To me this was all rushed through and we await any effects which can't be undone in the future.
More research should be put into soil organic nitrogen and reasons why each soil behaves it's way. Rather than the current just results and this soil makes three times as much nitrogen as that soil. With zero explanation given.

Personally for me I feel there's going to be lots of nonsense. You'll have arbitrary decisions made on paper with zero thoughts on the real world. Accounting with zero differences in the real world. Some damage could be done both to farmers livelihoods and also the environment by supposedly friendly methods. There's a touch of the Gestapo of this too being forced on farmers which mostly had nothing to do with farmers but from actions of the wider community.

Do I see it as positive not really.
The glory days of farming to me are over.
Maybe people's health will improve from all this. We'll see.

Birdnuts

straight wrote: »

A decade of pain they are calling it...

Key targets in the Agri food strategy 2030.

Climate-neutral agriculture sector by 2050, with substantial verifiable progress by 2030.
Water quality - agriculture will reduce nutrient losses to water by 50% by 2030.
Biodiversity - 10% of farmed area prioritised for biodiversity and 30% of marine protected areas by 2030.
Air quality - reduce ammonia emissions below 107,500t by 2030.


implies a cut of 55,500t is needed in nitrogen use by 2030

Some 10% of farmed land is to be prioritised for biodiversity under the draft strategy

AgClimatise makes clear that an increase in the national cattle herd above current levels will jeopardise the achievement of the sector attaining climate neutrality by 2050,

Glenisk is currently paying 50c/L for organic milk and 60c if supplied in winter. Has anyone one here done the maths on this versus conventional?? Obviously less cows but big savings in artificial inputs

green daries

Birdnuts wrote: »

Glenisk is currently paying 50c/L for organic milk and 60c if supplied in winter. Has anyone one here done the maths on this versus conventional?? Obviously less cows but big savings in artificial inputs

Unfortunately the farmer would need more than double the land to produce a viable amount of milk so even higher costs than fertiliser usage
Milk cheques from organic purchasers have been known to be intermittent by times
It's probably nearly unfixable to convert to organic dairy at this stage
A new dairy start up may be a runner

Gawddawggonnit

Birdnuts wrote: »

Glenisk is currently paying 50c/L for organic milk and 60c if supplied in winter. Has anyone one here done the maths on this versus conventional?? Obviously less cows but big savings in artificial inputs

There’s good margins to be made out of producing organic milk at that money. I know organic lads producing 9000L/Hd comfortably.

I was reading somewhere that the Eu organic market is worth €48bil and growing.
Dairy is a simple changeover but tillage is difficult (without grants anyhow).
Is there much research being done?

Mooooo

straight wrote: »

A decade of pain they are calling it...

Key targets in the Agri food strategy 2030.

Climate-neutral agriculture sector by 2050, with substantial verifiable progress by 2030.
Water quality - agriculture will reduce nutrient losses to water by 50% by 2030.
Biodiversity - 10% of farmed area prioritised for biodiversity and 30% of marine protected areas by 2030.
Air quality - reduce ammonia emissions below 107,500t by 2030.


implies a cut of 55,500t is needed in nitrogen use by 2030

Some 10% of farmed land is to be prioritised for biodiversity under the draft strategy

AgClimatise makes clear that an increase in the national cattle herd above current levels will jeopardise the achievement of the sector attaining climate neutrality by 2050,

I dunno. Farmers incomes are the last thing any of those fcukers will think of. I'm gonna keep the stocking rate as high as I can anyway until we know what's happening. The can count the existing ditches on my land on that 10% too...

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

There’s good margins to be made out of producing organic milk at that money. I know organic lads producing 9000L/Hd comfortably.

I was reading somewhere that the Eu organic market is worth €48bil and growing.
Dairy is a simple changeover but tillage is difficult (without grants anyhow).
Is there much research being done?

All due respect dawg, can that be done in Ireland without decimating the majority of farms? I doubt it

Pinsnbushings

What kind of stocking rates are achievable in organic systems?
Are you allowed to house cows all year round in Ireland I wonder? I presume most organic cows are housed all year in Europe?

green daries

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

There’s good margins to be made out of producing organic milk at that money. I know organic lads producing 9000L/Hd comfortably.

I was reading somewhere that the Eu organic market is worth €48bil and growing.
Dairy is a simple changeover but tillage is difficult (without grants anyhow).
Is there much research being done?

None really expansion was the basket where all all the grass eggs were put ( my own included)

Acquiescence

Pinsnbushings wrote: »

What kind of stocking rates are achievable in organic systems?
Are you allowed to house cows all year round in Ireland I wonder? I presume most organic cows are housed all year in Europe?

You are allowed. Minimum specs for housing are different as far as I know.

I'd find it hard to reconcile organic with fully housed personally.

Gawddawggonnit

Mooooo wrote: »

All due respect dawg, can that be done in Ireland without decimating the majority of farms? I doubt it

Why not?

50-60cpl is not to be sneezed at.

Plenty market there for organic dairy, but I would think that there’s little demand for organic milk powder? The powers that be don’t want such tomfoolery taking off either...less fert, less inputs etc wouldn’t really suit the industry.

Any new entrants here are mostly going for the organic option. The extra 5cpl for the first 5yrs is attractive also.
If I’d nothing only dairy I’d certainly be organic. The only real loss is artificial fert and that’s easy enough to cope with. No difference in antibiotics (etc) use also.

* Plenty talk about once a day milking, but no push for organic...why?

Gawddawggonnit

Pinsnbushings wrote: »

What kind of stocking rates are achievable in organic systems?
Are you allowed to house cows all year round in Ireland I wonder? I presume most organic cows are housed all year in Europe?

I think that the cows must be grazed for 150days to qualify. I’m not 100% sure of that.

Morris Moss

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Why not?

50-60cpl is not to be sneezed at.

Plenty market there for organic dairy, but I would think that there’s little demand for organic milk powder? The powers that be don’t want such tomfoolery taking off either...less fert, less inputs etc wouldn’t really suit the industry.

Any new entrants here are mostly going for the organic option. The extra 5cpl for the first 5yrs is attractive also.
If I’d nothing only dairy I’d certainly be organic. The only real loss is artificial fert and that’s easy enough to cope with. No difference in antibiotics (etc) use also.

* Plenty talk about once a day milking, but no push for organic...why?

I'd say lack of processers is one reason, know a few lads who enquired about it, would have been new entrants at the time, they said it was more hassle than it was worth regarding housing, winter milk and organic feed.

Pinsnbushings

Acquiescence wrote: »

You are allowed. Minimum specs for housing are different as far as I know.

I'd find it hard to reconcile organic with fully housed personally.

I would too but my land is too fragmented to graze it all. I'd say I'd only carry about 20 cows around the parlour in an organic system. Really would need to be selling direct at that scale..now it could be done I'm sure but whether I have the skill set I don't know.
I enquired with 1 company who take organic milk but they don't give any contract so you would be weary of being stuck with the milk.

Gawddawggonnit

Pinsnbushings wrote: »

I would too but my land is too fragmented to graze it all. I'd say I'd only carry about 20 cows around the parlour in an organic system. Really would need to be selling direct at that scale..now it could be done I'm sure but whether I have the skill set I don't know.
I enquired with 1 company who take organic milk but they don't give any contract so you would be weary of being stuck with the milk.

We buy our butter from a lad milking very few cows. He makes his own butter and salt (he’s by the sea) and he charges €16/kg this year. He can’t produce enough for demand. He sends a text when a batch is made and if you don’t get it that very day it’ll be sold out. Nicest butter I’ve ever eaten.

yosemitesam1

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Why not?

50-60cpl is not to be sneezed at.

Plenty market there for organic dairy, but I would think that there’s little demand for organic milk powder? The powers that be don’t want such tomfoolery taking off either...less fert, less inputs etc wouldn’t really suit the industry.

Any new entrants here are mostly going for the organic option. The extra 5cpl for the first 5yrs is attractive also.
If I’d nothing only dairy I’d certainly be organic. The only real loss is artificial fert and that’s easy enough to cope with. No difference in antibiotics (etc) use also.

* Plenty talk about once a day milking, but no push for organic...why?

There seems to be very little appetite for trying something new or experimenting, unless it's pretty much 100% parcelled up and ready to go but by that stage it's far too late