Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

cosatron

straight wrote: »

Cows grazed it twice and it got no nitrogen after the last grazing. Strong stemmy grass. Dosed them with noromectin today and have them inside now on hay.

that's a disaster.

Wildsurfer

straight wrote: »

Had to leave my calves back in today with scour. They just can't take the grass I'd say. They were nearly 4 months going out and good and strong. Cow with an ulcer, another cow with mastitis. Feck sake like.

Summer scour syndrome in calves? Did you check under their tongue for ulcers?

Siamsa Sessions

cosatron wrote: »

was there much nitrogen on it. I've come to the conclusion that no nitrogen should be put on calf paddocks until at least august and let the grass go stemmy for fibre. lush green leafy grass is a disaster for calves until they are at least 7 or 8 months when there rumens are used to grass

Our calves are on strong stemmy grass with the last month and I was hanging my head in shame, assuming I was doing it all wrong!

Joking aside, they are doing well and no sign of scouring. They're getting 1kg of an 18% nut. I got pots yesterday from the local vet and will try to collect FEC samples in the coming days to see if they need a dose.

Wildsurfer

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Our calves are on strong stemmy grass with the last month and I was hanging my head in shame, assuming I was doing it all wrong!

Joking aside, they are doing well and no sign of scouring. They're getting 1kg of an 18% nut. I got pots yesterday from the local vet and will try to collect FEC samples in the coming days to see if they need a dose.

Why not just dose at first sign of a cough? (Honest question as its what I presume most people do)

Mooooo

Would leave a bale of straw with calves along with a creep feeder for the first few paddocks. Allows time to adjust to new diet. Would be worth testing the dung also, coccidiosis could be a possibility. Don't leave em graze out a paddock, leave cows or heifers in after em or else top it/ bale it later.

straight

Mooooo wrote: »

Would leave a bale of straw with calves along with a creep feeder for the first few paddocks. Allows time to adjust to new diet. Would be worth testing the dung also, coccidiosis could be a possibility. Don't leave em graze out a paddock, leave cows or heifers in after em or else top it/ bale it later.

I've problems with a few every year. Dosed for cocci earlier in the year. I have hay available for them in the field. Maybe I should have strip grazed them.

Siamsa Sessions

Wildsurfer wrote: »

Why not just dose at first sign of a cough? (Honest question as its what I presume most people do)

Calves are new to me. There's an odd cough here and there in the bunch of 17 but nothing much.

Is there anything that treats lungworms and stomach worms?

blackdog1

straight wrote: »

I've problems with a few every year. Dosed for cocci earlier in the year. I have hay available for them in the field. Maybe I should have strip grazed them.

How long have you then out? Could be worms too or ration your feeding. I'd definitely take a dung sample so you'll know for next year. Had similar problem this year dosed for coccidiosis and gave them a shot of hexasol turned them around quick.

straight

blackdog1 wrote: »

How long have you then out? Could be worms too or ration your feeding. I'd definitely take a dung sample so you'll know for next year. Had similar problem this year dosed for coccidiosis and gave them a shot of hexasol turned them around quick.

Out 3 or 4 weeks. Could be worms alright. Field would have been infested after the cows grazing it. They're drying up now inside on hay but it's a pain.

Pinsnbushings

cosatron wrote: »

was there much nitrogen on it. I've come to the conclusion that no nitrogen should be put on calf paddocks until at least august and let the grass go stemmy for fibre. lush green leafy grass is a disaster for calves until they are at least 7 or 8 months when there rumens are used to grass

Id be inclined agree, lost a calf around this time last year in on a real lush reseed and stayed feeding the nuts, no fibre..

Base price

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Calves are new to me. There's an odd cough here and there in the bunch of 17 but nothing much.

Is there anything that treats lungworms and stomach worms?

We used to use Levacide injection for calves on grass. These would be bought in Jan/Feb/Mar calves that we reared ourselves. Unfortunately Levacide is no longer available. We haven't dosed any calves yet this year but we will probably use Albex 10% oral dose.

Water John

Will dosing be on worm count in the near future?
Wonder if young stock would fare better on MSS and let the gut develop and more balanced mineral wise?

Mooooo

Its more about resistance. Only using when you have to and not underdosing. Bruce Thompson on twitter would be worth a follow, he's putting alot of effort into it and preserving dung beetles to lower the burden.
Leader follower and not putting calves under pressure to graze out helps a lot.
Dung test for everything anyway

mahoney_j

Last 2 years changed tack on turning out calves ,first calves don’t go out till about 20 may and have to be at least 2 weeks weaned before going to grass inside there on ad lib hi fibre hi cereal nut with nis and rumen buffer as well as ad lib hay and maize silage ,once out they are on strong grass that hasn’t been loaded with n and 1.5 /2 kg of meal gradually bought back to 1 kg ,hay also offered till July
Calves just got 2 worm doses last year one in late July other in October .dung samples taken 3 times from July to December and just dosed depending on results ,these were out till late January on grass ,housed with no worm dose as no burden out again early March and dungs tested today ,waiting on results

DukeCaboom

Base price wrote: »

We used to use Levacide injection for calves on grass. These would be bought in Jan/Feb/Mar calves that we reared ourselves. Unfortunately Levacide is no longer available. We haven't dosed any calves yet this year but we will probably use Albex 10% oral dose.

What an injection Levacide was.

Base price

DukeCaboom wrote: »

What an injection Levacide was.

I wonder why it was discontinued. It was suitable for calves and weanling as the volume wasn't too bad but I never liked using it for older cattle.

DukeCaboom

Base price wrote: »

I wonder why it was discontinued. It was suitable for calves and weanling as the volume wasn't too bad but I never liked using it for older cattle.

For calves it was the only job.

What are people going calves for with lung worm here. Friend had done his calves with dectomax but vet today reconned they'd lung worn and they couldn't cough up the dead worms.. He rehoused them and gave them all metacam.

Mooooo

Went with albex first last year, worked well i think as helped build immunity, think it was August before they got an ivermectin, not sure

mahoney_j

Mooooo wrote: »

Went with albex first last year, worked well i think as helped build immunity, think it was August before they got an ivermectin, not sure

First dose for me last year was Albex drench second dose dectomax injection

Birdnuts

cosatron wrote: »

was there much nitrogen on it. I've come to the conclusion that no nitrogen should be put on calf paddocks until at least august and let the grass go stemmy for fibre. lush green leafy grass is a disaster for calves until they are at least 7 or 8 months when there rumens are used to grass

Every farm should have at least one paddock of herbal ley to graze such young stock on - healthier stock, less reliance on wormers etc(and the growing resistance issues with such products), overall less inputs and much improved environmental performance, especcially for conventional dairy systems

GrasstoMilk

An extra 4 weeks storage and different organic N rates for higher and lower yielding cows

1373

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

An extra 4 weeks storage and different organic N rates for higher and lower yielding cows

Shorter slurry spreading period would be manageable as long as it’s not a later starting date

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

An extra 4 weeks storage and different organic N rates for higher and lower yielding cows

Some scary stuff in that for all farmers ,still proposals and hopefully ifa etc will be lobbying hard ,the organic n levels from higher/lower yielding cows needs v strong apposition not all of us blessed with big milk blocks to carry hundreds of cows that’s going to be very contentious every farm may just be in dero now .the slurry storage is going to mean more huge investement on lots of farms …..lads spreading slurry all winter with the 2 fingers up ….thanks …

straight

It all hits harder on the guys like me with no outside block of land. The different nitrogen allowances per cow stinks of teagasc relentlessly pursuing their kiwi dreams. How can it make sense from a methane point of view. More stomachs = more gas surely.

mahoney_j

straight wrote: »

It all hits harder on the guys like me with no outside block of land. The different nitrogen allowances per cow stinks of teagasc relentlessly pursuing their kiwi dreams. How can it make sense from a methane point of view. More stomachs = more gas surely.

Exactly ….this was driven from likes of Tegasc and certain dairy advisors .this is now where our lobby groups need to come out swinging

GrasstoMilk

straight wrote: »

It all hits harder on the guys like me with no outside block of land. The different nitrogen allowances per cow stinks of teagasc relentlessly pursuing their kiwi dreams. How can it make sense from a methane point of view. More stomachs = more gas surely.

Different N levels for high yielding cows is the way its done in Denmark

It's not a teagasc proposal

cosatron

straight wrote: »

It all hits harder on the guys like me with no outside block of land. The different nitrogen allowances per cow stinks of teagasc relentlessly pursuing their kiwi dreams. How can it make sense from a methane point of view. More stomachs = more gas surely.

this is back door quota in all but name. How in the name of god can you predict what yield's your cows are going to give on any given year, like the leap in yields from a heifer to second calver is unpredictable at the best of times.

straight

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Different N levels for high yielding cows is the way its done in Denmark

It's not a teagasc proposal

There can't be too many cows in the country milking less than 5500 anyway. Why not do it on amount of bought in concentrate if they're concerned about efficiency. Makes no sense to me.

straight

cosatron wrote: »

this is back door quota in all but name. How in the name of god can you predict what yield's your cows are going to give on any given year, like the leap in yields from a heifer to second calver is unpredictable at the best of times.

I guess you will find out at the end of the year if you were over or under stocked. Ridiculous, but no surprise there.

Finty Lemon

mahoney_j wrote: »

Some scary stuff in that for all farmers ,still proposals and hopefully ifa etc will be lobbying hard ,the organic n levels from higher/lower yielding cows needs v strong apposition not all of us blessed with big milk blocks to carry hundreds of cows that’s going to be very contentious every farm may just be in dero now .the slurry storage is going to mean more huge investement on lots of farms …..lads spreading slurry all winter with the 2 fingers up ….thanks …

The dairy farmers up the country have been working with a 22 week storage requirement for years. They didn't go broke putting it there. Storage is a good investment- the lobbying should be for funding not opposition to the principle of extra capacity.
On the Nitrogen one, does a higher yielding cow excrete less organic N? Surely this depends on the diet. The science must surely exist to answer this.