Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

jaymla627

straight wrote: »

It all hits harder on the guys like me with no outside block of land. The different nitrogen allowances per cow stinks of teagasc relentlessly pursuing their kiwi dreams. How can it make sense from a methane point of view. More stomachs = more gas surely.

Sell your entitlements at the earliest opportunity next year and go off the bps radar, dont draw any grants our submit any maps and youll work away the finest

mahoney_j

Finty Lemon wrote: »

The dairy farmers up the country have been working with a 22 week storage requirement for years. They didn't go broke putting it there. Storage is a good investment- the lobbying should be for funding not opposition to the principle of extra capacity.
On the Nitrogen one, does a higher yielding cow excrete less organic N? Surely this depends on the diet. The science must surely exist to answer this.

Not much issue with storage ,everyone should have enough and then some …..the finding has been there for it for a long time but there was a motto promoted of put the stock on the ground first and worry about everything else later …..
The squeeze again been put on lads with smaller blocks of land who have gone a different way to what Tegasc etc have promoted .hopefully the ifa etc will negotiate hard on this

jaymla627

mahoney_j wrote: »

Not much issue with storage ,everyone should have enough and then some …..the finding has been there for it for a long time but there was a motto promoted of put the stock on the ground first and worry about everything else later …..
The squeeze again been put on lads with smaller blocks of land who have gone a different way to what Tegasc etc have promoted .hopefully the ifa etc will negotiate hard on this

If the ifa do get it watered down and it goes to Europe and they say no, its not going far enough then the game is totally up, its a catch 22 situation, dairy farmers need to be weaning themselves off the bps and tams grants as availing of them going forward will be impossible

1373

jaymla627 wrote: »

Sell your entitlements at the earliest opportunity next year and go off the bps radar, dont draw any grants our submit any maps and youll work away the finest

The co councils will visit instead

jaymla627

1373 wrote: »

The co councils will visit instead

Handier take your chances their, then spend a few 100k upgrading yards, renting ground you dont need and drawing slurry around the countryside

Mooooo

We are the only country in Europe still with a derogation, so keeping it will be a task.

whelan2

County Council have shut down dairy farms around here, don't underestimate them

straight

Mooooo wrote: »

We are the only country in Europe still with a derogation, so keeping it will be a task.

What about the farms that are not in derogation and are stocked at 5Lu/Ha on the milking platform. I think that's where they should start.

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

County Council have shut down dairy farms around here, don't underestimate them

What did they do that they where shutdown, if a dairy farm isnt causing pollution what grounds do they have to shut you down

K.G.

jaymla627 wrote: »

Sell your entitlements at the earliest opportunity next year and go off the bps radar, dont draw any grants our submit any maps and youll work away the finest

It is looking more and more attractive every year.the burden of proof is much higher in acrourt than bps penalties.

K.G.

whelan2 wrote: »

County Council have shut down dairy farms around here, don't underestimate them

On what grounds were they shut down.

whelan2

Slurry storage, housing. Definitely 2 locally closed down. Probably more. I think our county council is a lot stricter than others for some reason

Boggerman12

K.G. wrote: »

It is looking more and more attractive every year.the burden of proof is much higher in acrourt than bps penalties.

Just for curiosity sake and when I saw the journal today it’s the first thing entered my mind,how much would entitlements be worth.at the minute mine are worth roughly 290 a hectare.what would they fetch on the market to sell?

Siamsa Sessions

Boggerman12 wrote: »

Just for curiosity sake and when I saw the journal today it’s the first thing entered my mind,how much would entitlements be worth.at the minute mine are worth roughly 290 a hectare.what would they fetch on the market to sell?

I bought entitlements in 2019 and 2020. They were worth around 200/ha and the going rate then was 2.1 times the value, so approx 420 each.

Not sure what they’re going for now. Changes to CAP and convergence may play a bigger role in price at this stage as the changes get nearer

Birdnuts

whelan2 wrote: »

Slurry storage, housing. Definitely 2 locally closed down. Probably more. I think our county council is a lot stricter than others for some reason

Sounds like actions under the "River Basin Management Plans" that were forumulated a few years ago by the likes of the EPA on the back of the EU Water directive. They specifically target catchements that are under water quality pressures, so its likely given the most recent EPA report on such matters, that intensive dairy operations in the likes of the Suir, Barrow, Lee and Slaney etc.catchements will come under increased scrutiny over the coming years

whelan2

These 2 farms would not have a river running through them or be close to one. When the current inspector first started he went around every farm yard and was very hard on alot of lads. Now some probably needed to sort their **** out- excuse the pun- but all counties should be singing from the same hymn sheet. I always got on well with him and I did all the improvements he asked me to do

blackdog1

mahoney_j wrote: »

Exactly ….this was driven from likes of Tegasc and certain dairy advisors .this is now where our lobby groups need to come out swinging

Derogation will eventually be gotten rid of , then the only profitable cow will be the ones milking over 7000 litres but we won't be able to have many of those after this N increase comes in. Very short sighted by teagasc , this high ebi cow is looking like the hill their willing to die on. I would like the people who are proposing this to sign their names to the paper so they can go down in the history books.

Finty Lemon

blackdog1 wrote: »

Derogation will eventually be gotten rid of , then the only profitable cow will be the ones milking over 7000 litres but we won't be able to have many of those after this N increase comes in. Very short sighted by teagasc , this high ebi cow is looking like the hill their willing to die on. I would like the people who are proposing this to sign their names to the paper so they can go down in the history books.

3 questions:
What is the link between milk yield per cow and profit? I know from the beef side that output doesn't guarantee income.

Northern Ireland dairy farmers went down the high output route for the last 20 years. Is their profitability way better than southern farms?

Finally, is it true that high EBI cows cant deliver over 7000 litres?

DukeCaboom

See lissaduff have a heifer calf auction on at the moment on denis barrets website.

blackdog1

Finty Lemon wrote: »

3 questions:
What is the link between milk yield per cow and profit? I know from the beef side that output doesn't guarantee income.

None really, a good farmer with a higher producing herd vs a good farmer with a high ebi herd with a higher stocking rate bascially make the same profit per hectare. I was at a Johnston castle zoom meeting and this was highlighted. However if Derogation goes the high producing animal is far more profitable, also in extreme weather conditions (drought Etc) the high producing cows by far out preforms the lower producing herd. Where the lower producing herd wins is when feed prices are high and milk prices are really low.

Northern Ireland dairy farmers went down the high output route for the last 20 years. Is their profitability way better than southern farms?

No they went too far in my opinion 10,000 litres plus with low solids and those cows are hard to maintain. The cow most people i know want is a 7500-8000 litre cow with solids around 4%fat and 3.6% protein , delivering 1kg of milk solids per cow or more on 1-1.2 tonne of meal per year.

Finally, is it true that high EBI cows cant deliver over 7000 litres?

No but there is a problem that has been highlighted on this forum by members that have been using high ebi bulls for a number of years such as cows not responding well in times of stress ( grass or weather) to extra feed being fed.

straight

Finty Lemon wrote: »

3 questions:
What is the link between milk yield per cow and profit? I know from the beef side that output doesn't guarantee income.

Northern Ireland dairy farmers went down the high output route for the last 20 years. Is their profitability way better than southern farms?

Finally, is it true that high EBI cows cant deliver over 7000 litres?

7000 litres is not high output. More like middle of the road. Categorising dairy cows by litres is like categorising beef cattle by height. Makes no sense but sure, that's what your dealing with like.

K.G.

Maybe it has to do more with protecting the marketabilty.high output indoor dairy is not what we are trying to sell

mahoney_j

K.G. wrote: »

Maybe it has to do more with protecting the marketabilty.high output indoor dairy is not what we are trying to sell

And despite the ****e Tegasc etc keep telling us about our so called big advantage fromlow cost grass fed milk and what a niche product it is we still receive the worst price in Europe for it …..they’ll run a mile if questioned on that Lawrence shallo wanted nothing to do when someone asked a question aafter he posted a rosey picture of the production system they only seem to be able to advise on ….will there be a market and a good return from all the extra milk they’re getting lads to produce …..aghhggg we have to move on now next group comming …..and remember oat dillon apologising saying they forgot all about the extra calves and what to do with them
Tegasc have done so much great stuff around grass based dairying but along with Brennan in the journal snd others they are blinkered and one dimensional when it comes to advice …..and all about the farmer with the big stretch of land and all the cows all this then then those find its way back to things like dero etc ……

straight

mahoney_j wrote: »

And despite the ****e Tegasc etc keep telling us about our so called big advantage fromlow cost grass fed milk and what a niche product it is we still receive the worst price in Europe for it …..they’ll run a mile if questioned on that Lawrence shallo wanted nothing to do when someone asked a question aafter he posted a rosey picture of the production system they only seem to be able to advise on ….will there be a market and a good return from all the extra milk they’re getting lads to produce …..aghhggg we have to move on now next group comming …..and remember oat dillon apologising saying they forgot all about the extra calves and what to do with them
Tegasc have done so much great stuff around grass based dairying but along with Brennan in the journal snd others they are blinkered and one dimensional when it comes to advice …..and all about the farmer with the big stretch of land and all the cows all this then then those find its way back to things like dero etc ……

Well if the grass doesn't give us a price advantage at least it gives us an environmental advantage. Oh wait, that's being ignored now too. I heard our environmental footprint is half of the average and they want to cut us back and produce elsewhere. You couldn't make it up.

mahoney_j

straight wrote: »

Well if the grass doesn't give us a price advantage at least it gives us an environmental advantage. Oh wait, that's being ignored now too. I heard our environmental footprint is half of the average and they want to cut us back and produce elsewhere. You couldn't make it up.

Exactly

GrasstoMilk

K.G. wrote: »

Maybe it has to do more with protecting the marketabilty.high output indoor dairy is not what we are trying to sell

Glanbia have started collecting all the indoor guys with a separate lorry and bringing it all to Virginia
Strathroy are collecting the indoor guys with a separate lorry too

Say my name

If for a reason that someone from Glanbia connect reads this forum.

Make your next upgrade to the site an inclusion of batch feed numbers.
Beside the meal purchase in the trading statement would be grand.

Finty Lemon

straight wrote: »

7000 litres is not high output. More like middle of the road. Categorising dairy cows by litres is like categorising beef cattle by height. Makes no sense but sure, that's what your dealing with like.

The Netherlands, France and Germany all use milk yield brackets to determine organic N output per cow.

alps

Thrown a bit by a suggestion of extending the closed period into september. I think its a decoy...

We have 2 distinct issues with slurry storage..
1. Some haven't got it and spread regardless
2. Contractor availability and full tanks on Jan 13th and waiting for a weather window.

Can see why they might want to cover off Jan as an issue, but problem no 1 is bigger..

No dirty water spreading for december is a straight off measure to stop any excuse for tackling up to a vacuum tank at that time, but hits compliant winter milk guys.

Increasing capacity allows for an opportunity for farms who currently don't have the capacity to get their **** in order once and for all...

But will they..

Injuryprone

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Glanbia have started collecting all the indoor guys with a separate lorry and bringing it all to Virginia
Strathroy are collecting the indoor guys with a separate lorry too

I noticed on twitter recently that a farmer that didn't leave the cows out at all last year, had them (or at least some of them) back at grass. I wonder is this why. Whispers of an environment penalty in his milk cheque maybe?