Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856673#Comment_117856673

Was it based on modelled or measured data is the big question alongside is that really how things are being done at farm level

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856672#Comment_117856672

There also seems to be a wider appreciation for food production as opposed to commodity production. The transformation to end product is every bit as important to her as the farming.

Learning to make cheese, bread and beer is all on her course. If that was on the course in kildalton, it probably wouldn't go down to well!

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856654#Comment_117856654

Back up the horse three dwag!!!!!.I’m more on the greengrsss way of thinking on this and his point below is bang on the money ….yes there is lads with bananas sr in milk block ,horsing out huge volumes of slurry and chemical fertiliser on it but there the type of lads that’ll never listen and be forever whinging ….I know someone local to me with a sr of over 8 cows/he …grass always rich dark green but cows never graze it anywhere near remotely tight …z grass in 7 days a week too equally I know lads stocked at 4/5 cows /he with support blocks not loading out slurry and bagged on the milk block but spreading it evenly on all blocks

I’m still firmly of the belief that Tegasc have a lot to answer for they promoted dairy and cows heavily with the load on cows and worry about everything else later

straight

Ya, Teagasc have alot to answer for. They keep changing their mind and won't address the real issues. Biggest problem I see with MP stocking rate is lads overloading with bag fertilizer.

I would say there is guys not in derogation and they are farming the same way as they did in the 70's. Scraping out cubicles with a tractor and ring feeders in the yard. Feck all storage.

Here's their reasoning behind the nitrates bands that they say they didn't come up with.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy50cmFuc2lzdG9yLmZtL3RoZS1kYWlyeS1lZGdl/episode/YjZiYmUyMGYtZjFkZi00OTA2LWI0YTgtZmMxZmJhODY2Y2Q3?ep=14

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117855486#Comment_117855486

Will be reverse id say, building costs at the minute are gone of the reservation, with the new cap looking like it wont be worth drawing, alot easier to sell your entitlements and take your chances with your local council, a fun fact if you dont submit any bps form our draw down any grant aid the department for the minute will leave you to your own devices

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857788#Comment_117857788

I see where you are coming from and that's fine but will coops continue to take your milk if you are not nitrates compliant. You already need to be quality assured, processors are coming under increasing pressure to ensure that there farmers are farming in a "sustainable " manner.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858126#Comment_117858126

The co-ops literally dont give a flying f**k once the milk keeps coming in, its telling that glanbia where surprised at the uptake of the retirement scheme, theirs a tipping point reached now where the ongoing costs involved in remaining compliant and not having to take on generational debt to pay for all this combined with working harder to just stand still leave co-ops in a situation if they rock the boat telling lads to cough up 100's of k to just keep the privilege of supplying them anyone that hasnt the place mortgaged will just pull the pin, because as is the case now you will be no sooner be compliant and another nitrates 2.0 plan will be brought in requiring another shed load of cash to remain "compliant"....

Not yet 34 here and the goalposts been shifted every few years has us wondering is it wise to keep ploughing money into the farm, after spending 150k on slurry storage last year, i reckon ill have to go the same again to cover the new rules, but their isnt been another penny spent here till i get a good chunk of existing debt paid down

atlantic mist

sustainable fall under 3 pillars social, financial and enviromental....all three should be discussed in together..we wish to achieve all 3 but give us a break were bottom of the world milk price leagues yearly.....were not perfect but the majority do try to achieve social and enviromental sustainability but were rode on the financial aspect

when health and saftey was an issue in the construction sector here the gov brought in directives....this additional cost was factored into all new prices and increased the labor and price cost of housing, increased safety was the result but it cost...i dont think we have scope to pass on the additional costs

if organics is this huge market (which data does not back up) lets see the shelves in supermarkets of organics empty, lets see the price of organic move to an extreme high price to show this what the consumer wants

point was raised at nitrates meeting...50% run off occurs in 4 months proposed closed periods, 50% run off occurs outside closed period, so half our problem is outside closed period if technology is so advanced as the dept make out scrap closed periods, allow fert and slurry spread determined by met eirean forecast and soil sample so show if soil can absorb the application at the present time....seasons change from year to year and winter can start a month early and or finish a month later so the calender farming is an issue unless we have a consistant yearly weather farming.....open it up and lets go percision hate half doing things right

im at a cow to acre on milking platform, not in derogation, do spread parlor washings in closed period, get an unbelievable response from the grass to it, dont spread when rain forecast or ground cant take it, cant spread during some open periods, farm the ground to look after it the best, working 7 days i often dont know what day it is at the best of times never mind what month

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857201#Comment_117857201

We're not on a level playing field at all. We get a county council inspection each year,some lads on here have never had one.

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858391#Comment_117858391

Believe me I'm very reluctant to be spending any money on the farm here either but I suppose you just keep things as manageable as possible.

I don't think they need worry about where the milk will come from, 6 new entrants locally either started this year or starting next year, big lads adding 100s of cows to be milked in newly built rotary parlours or second units.

The herds that have exited locally would all have been 40 cows or under.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858391#Comment_117858391

How do you reckon you’ll need to spend the same again?

150k is surely enough storage for around 200 cows?

you only need to hold dirty water from mid November to mid jan

if your dirty water is currently going into a designated slurry tank it may be an issue as you’ll have to hold it all from September 15th instead of October 15th

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117858526#Comment_117858526

There never will be high margin commodity markets for any decent lenght of time. Whether that's organic or some other niche makes no difference.

The first thing that would happen if ye got the whiff of a higher price is increase production and bid up input prices. Flood the market and then complain that the margin had dropped.

There is never any onus on the farmer to be responsible for not overproducing. Unless there is a mechanism through coop share ownership, production rights or similar to limit growth or new entrants, that will always be the case.

The processor will always take there margin so couldn't give two fcuks whether or not they are dealing in high or low value markets.

The real high value markets out there are for small nimble producers and can't really be accessed at all by a big processor. All the cost increases in the world could be passed on in those types of markets and no one would so much as bat an eyelid.

Biggest problem is that the last 40 years of market interventions has been so effective at distancing farmers from consumers that they can't see any other way but keep digging deeper in the hole.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117860828#Comment_117860828

60 days storage of parlour washings here would amount to needing an extra 50 thousand gallons of storage, an extra months storage of cows plus replacement stock will add on needing another 120 thousand gallons of storage, for future proofing/weather events add in another 60 thousand gallons of storage, and ill be looking at needing a 250k slurry store/slatted unit at a minimum, youd of maybe got away with a 100k pre pandemic to put in the above but now id reckon 150k is a realistic number to be working off

blackdog1

They could also put up the amount of slurry storage you need if you cow produces over 6300 litres so that figure could be alot higher...

cute geoge

Would it not make more sense now to scale back abit to not be pumping money into concrete and steel .By the time the repayments are made on these building improvements there will be probably 10 more years of hardship on the body clock and when you are hitting 50 you no longer want hardship so might be scaling back at that age anyway .Surely there has to be more to life then hardship being over stocked with scuttery cows!!!

kevthegaff

Theres definitely a good prospect for OAD if theres a cap on milk production. Another option would be a flying herd, sell some incalf cows/heifers in October and buy again in March, would it be taken into account for slurry storage

Mooooo

Majority of what will be put in for derogation, while painful, could be managed for most. My fear is, whether well founded or not i dunno, is if we put in all this extra investment and derogation is then pulled in 5 or whatever years and the cows won't be there to pay for it.

JustJoe7240

What concentration of bluestone are guys using for their footbaths?

atlantic mist

it doesnt make sense for any of us to be pumping money into concrete and steel at current margins....thats why we are nationally lacking the required infrastructure....our processors cant manage it by themselves they come to our coop with the hand out cause margins are tight and its too expensive to borrow money and yet were expected to magic up money every time the goalposts are moved by department or coop or eu, in most cases bulding works on farms come at the expense of living standards

id be similar to Jay with investment required to comply with this nitrate change on storage, im borrowed heavily for last expansion if ive to try fund the new proposals under the narrow time frame of depatment, well simply i dont think the bank will fund it. door is closed on increasing production to cover additional costs(not over stocked), i drew a radius of 10k around where i am and the majority have open lagoons, i just dont see the money around to fund these nitrates changes all the grants in the world wouldnt cover it cause a grant is great (even if costings are way off the mark) but you need funding from the bank for 100%plus vat and grants are not gaurenteed so you need to be able to prove you can repay loan as historically the department held back or reduced grant payments so departments reputation with banks is not what you would think. Do you close up shop if you cant meet new nitrate regulation??? cant get funding for new developments, cant afford to be hit with penalties, probably name and shame you cause that seems to be the culture with the department

jack in department said industry and consumers need to back us on the nitrates changes but that is just not realistic consumers want cheap food and industry wants to be consumer champions and ensure their jobs are secure, now everone wants to add enviromental champions to this list on requirements for famers, penalising for non complience is never going to change the cutlure look at status quo, work need to be done to improve margins and improve education which in turn result in higher standards across the board in enviromental, social and general health and safety on farms like all other industries that wish to experience change.

the talk of comoddities is fine but our processors should at this stage have strong business relationship built up where the price is related to production costs and doesnt fluctuate as much

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117862226#Comment_117862226

Slurry storage is still going to be calculated from Oct 15th

you just can’t spread from sept 15th

as is the case currently if your dirty water is going into a slurry tank it’s classed as slurry

tbh it makes logical sense to me to have dirty water separate so it’s not reducing your slurry storage

outdoor tanks with slats on them do not need to be roofed

it’s open tanks with no covering

weve just finished a 130k g tank with slats for 48k, about 8k more than what it would have cost this time last year

straight

Let's see them enforcing the current rules before pissing more money into a black hole. I find it gas the way the media talks about how much it's going to cost farmers. It's just not going to be done as far as I can see. Most lads around here are just limping over the finish line or full up with debt.

Gawddawggonnit

There hasn’t been ONE poster that wants to clean up the mess. Not one!

Just for clarity these are the dates that I can spread artificial N;

10 March to 1June.

That’s it! In that period I can spread 45 unitsN/ac. Not one grain more. Last year I’d 16t N that I didn’t even use.

Slurry spreading;

10March to 1June dribble bar.

10March to 1Oct if incorporated into the soil.

Fym dates;

10March to 15Dec.

If ye claim to be able to produce at such low cost, and during such high prices, what’s the problem?

Gawddawggonnit

Had an inspection this am for checking that we correctly identify the breeds of stock. They take a few ear cartilage samples for dna tests. I said work away, but if you need me I charge €250/hr.

All the samples were taken from stock I bought in…:).

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863294#Comment_117863294

We’re goosed if we had to stick to those rates and dates …

Tegasc are the ones preaching about our supposed low cost model ….which is a crock of shite when u include all costs ….feed ,fertiliser fuel and power are taking a huge chunk of our margin this year even with good milk ,beef snd grain prices …that’s even before we start paying ourselves for our time or paying down debt ..never mind complying with all these new regs …the traditional family farm unit here is goosed …grass to milk mentioned how his parents but them through college bought land …mine did too but I’m struggling to see how this will be repeated in my generation …..having an efficient farm is well and good but going forward the number of farmers will get smaller but farms will get bigger

a local guy around here heading for 1500 cows lots of lads moaning and whinging about him but I’ve huge admiration for him ,he is creating lots of employment and a lot of his money goes into local economy ….wouldn’t be my cup of tea and not the way I want to see farming going but it’s reality

Mooooo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863294#Comment_117863294

The claim of low cost isn't coming from us, its from bodies who think labour land and debt has no cost in farming.

With all due respect you are farming in a country with a complete different climate, not a mind a different system of governance which has land at fixed low prices. If you were farming in ireland what would you be doing baring in mind the main objective has to be include earning an income to put food on the table? Sure some can go artisan but many of us may not. You talk of a European market on our doorstep yet we've seen videos of French farmers taking produce not produced in France out of lorries and dumping it.

I have to invest in my yard regardless of numbers simply due to its age, the way I can do that is by increasing numbers. I've spread less N than is allowed by using slurry where its needed, and will try cover despite heavy nature of land and rel high rainfall. I'm paying for labour and land and have come thru plenty other shite along with it, as have most no doubt everyone had or have their own crosses to bare. My water and my families water comes from Wells on the farm, I want and try to do my best to have things right. I'm doing as much as I can to try and have a business that will survive and provide me with a living. Its all we are all trying to do.

This idea that we can take on all this extra cost with no push up the line to cover it is galling

cute geoge

Having all these big super farms inplace of traditional family farms is this what our dept. of ag. and government are pushing us towards like in 2 generations will there be any one even left milking 140 cows

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863294#Comment_117863294

No wonder French farmers are so cranky. 😜

atlantic mist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863294#Comment_117863294

were all kind of secretly hoping well have polar bears in donegal (according to our greens) and my bord bia man think the south east will become the costa del sol in a few years:) fairies....well stay in the middle where we understand humans are the problem to the enviroment not the beloved dairy cow

we all want to do things better dont be so dramatic, were not going to fix the problems of the world either and neither are the french for that matter, no one wants to farm out there you say that yourself

ireland is not a low cost producer, were a low price producer as our coops historically havent placed a value on the farmers labor or been able to differenciate on quality

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863608#Comment_117863608

Thankfully being Irish I’m never cranky!

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863294#Comment_117863294

You have a very different environment to Ireland our environment allows grass to grow year round