Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Sacrolyte

I think grass measuring is very useful tool for young fellas and the inexperienced who don’t have the experience or confidence to make on the spot decisions to what’s happening on the farm at any given time.
It’s the fool proof farming method of “doing it by the book”.

GrasstoMilk

Sacrolyte wrote: »

I think grass measuring is very useful tool for young fellas and the inexperienced who don’t have the experience or confidence to make on the spot decisions to what’s happening on the farm at any given time.
It’s the fool proof farming method of “doing it by the book”.

I would very much disagree, I've 60 odd years of farming experience with me every day of the week and my father can as plain as day see how much its benefited us.

We're probably milking 40 if not 50 more cows than we would be if we weren't grass measuring
You can push the boundaries further because you have the exact figures on what grass is there and you can look back on previous years to see what went right and what caused it to go wrong

charolais0153

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I would very much disagree, I've 60 odd years of farming experience with me every day of the week and my father can as plain as day see how much its benefited us.

We're probably milking 40 if not 50 more cows than we would be if we weren't grass measuring
You can push the boundaries further because you have the exact figures on what grass is there and you can look back on previous years to see what went right and what caused it to go wrong

If u stopped grass measuring in the morning g, do you think you wouldn't be able to keep the same number of cows just because you didn't have abritary figures

GrasstoMilk

charolais0153 wrote: »

If u stopped grass measuring in the morning g, do you think you wouldn't be able to keep the same number of cows just because you didn't have abritary figures

I would say so, you have a much higher demand and you can run into deficits quicker, if you dont correct it at the right time you can hammer growth rates for a while that's where the cover per cow and growth rate comes in for me
This year and last year has really suited us here, weve fed very few bales in the main growing season, next year might not , we'll take it as it comes.
Its taken us a while to build up to a high sr around the parlour, some wont agree with high stocking rates but those 40 extra are worth alot to a us

dar31

Sacrolyte wrote: »

I think grass measuring is very useful tool for young fellas and the inexperienced who don’t have the experience or confidence to make on the spot decisions to what’s happening on the farm at any given time.
It’s the fool proof farming method of “doing it by the book”.

I'd very much look at it the other way around, grass measuring gives me the confidence to make decisions.
I can look at the farm and know I've a surplus/deficit but by measuring in know exactly how much so. Instead of taking out a paddock and see how things look, I know exactly how much to take out.
Reading some of Mj's post stating he doesn't grass measure, which id very much dispute, he probably walks the farm more times a week than most lads he just chooses to keep the figures in his head rather than use a grass program.

Probably the easiest way to farm is to run a very high stocking rate and supplement with meal/sil/mz/beet etc as and any avaible grass will be eaten. I see so many people who would prefer to sit on a tractor for hour on end every week buffer feeding rather than an hour a week grass measuring.
However I strongly believe in the teagasc matra of matching stocking rate to your ability to grow grass.
But then that's the joys of farming, its my farm ill farm it the way I want.

mahoney_j

dar31 wrote: »

I'd very much look at it the other way around, grass measuring gives me the confidence to make decisions.
I can look at the farm and know I've a surplus/deficit but by measuring in know exactly how much so. Instead of taking out a paddock and see how things look, I know exactly how much to take out.
Reading some of Mj's post stating he doesn't grass measure, which id very much dispute, he probably walks the farm more times a week than most lads he just chooses to keep the figures in his head rather than use a grass program.

Probably the easiest way to farm is to run a very high stocking rate and supplement with meal/sil/mz/beet etc as and any avaible grass will be eaten. I see so many people who would prefer to sit on a tractor for hour on end every week buffer feeding rather than an hour a week grass measuring.
However I strongly believe in the teagasc matra of matching stocking rate to your ability to grow grass.
But then that's the joys of farming, its my farm ill farm it the way I want.

Whilst grass measuring may be important I think some overstate the biggest thing is reacting to what’s in front of you knowing your farm and your paddocks .i could count 5/6 times this year where I’ve grass measured as per what ye would call grass measuring ,I sold my grasshopper in June due to lack of use I have a clippers and quadrant and now and again I’d cut a square to rest my eye .i go through my paddocks on quad 2/3 times a week and just react to what I see without figures 1600 is my cut off for grazing after that I work on days ahead of cows ,weather and growing conditions bales are whipped out and I move on .im stocked near 4 from April to dry off .bales go in when needed and out when not .not saying I’m **** hot at it but I’d like to think I have a good eye for it and it’s working I’m actually considering upping my Sr to 5 and not keeping any beef on outblocks .no issue buffer feeding cows when they need it they get it

Say my name

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I would very much disagree, I've 60 odd years of farming experience with me every day of the week and my father can as plain as day see how much its benefited us.

We're probably milking 40 if not 50 more cows than we would be if we weren't grass measuring
You can push the boundaries further because you have the exact figures on what grass is there and you can look back on previous years to see what went right and what caused it to go wrong

When you have the figures recorded for yourself. Would you say now you're more artificial nitrogen applied efficient per litre than you were when you first started recording?
If the nitrates limit applied per acre was cut by 25% and no increase in feed purchased was allowed and no additional land was available. Would those additional 50 cows be able to stay on farm?

dar31

mahoney_j wrote: »

Whilst grass measuring may be important I think some overstate the biggest thing is reacting to what’s in front of you knowing your farm and your paddocks .i could count 5/6 times this year where I’ve grass measured as per what ye would call grass measuring ,I sold my grasshopper in June due to lack of use I have a clippers and quadrant and now and again I’d cut a square to rest my eye .i go through my paddocks on quad 2/3 times a week and just react to what I see without figures 1600 is my cut off for grazing after that I work on days ahead of cows ,weather and growing conditions bales are whipped out and I move on .im stocked near 4 from April to dry off .bales go in when needed and out when not .not saying I’m **** hot at it but I’d like to think I have a good eye for it and it’s working I’m actually considering upping my Sr to 5 and not keeping any beef on outblocks .no issue buffer feeding cows when they need it they get it

Very much agree,m we all use tools and methods of management to manage our grass during the year, while I'm Very happy to use pasture base and your happy to use your method, both as good as one another, we both strive to manage grass, what gets me is when you say you don't grass measure and lads on the outside look in and reckon they don't need to either.
It very much an essential tool for farming, how one goes about it is up to themselves.
They say walking the farm is 80% of it.
I just feel grass measuring in any shape or form should be promoted.

Buford T. Justice XIX

dar31 wrote: »

I'd very much look at it the other way around, grass measuring gives me the confidence to make decisions.
I can look at the farm and know I've a surplus/deficit but by measuring in know exactly how much so. Instead of taking out a paddock and see how things look, I know exactly how much to take out.
Reading some of Mj's post stating he doesn't grass measure, which id very much dispute, he probably walks the farm more times a week than most lads he just chooses to keep the figures in his head rather than use a grass program.

Probably the easiest way to farm is to run a very high stocking rate and supplement with meal/sil/mz/beet etc as and any avaible grass will be eaten. I see so many people who would prefer to sit on a tractor for hour on end every week buffer feeding rather than an hour a week grass measuring.
However I strongly believe in the teagasc matra of matching stocking rate to your ability to grow grass.
But then that's the joys of farming, its my farm ill farm it the way I want.

Exactly that^^^^

It's my first year doing it seriously and I can make a decision of an upcoming surplus/deficit 2 or 3 days earlier to take out (so it's back in earlier) or slow down and supplement.

mahoney_j wrote: »

Whilst grass measuring may be important I think some overstate the biggest thing is reacting to what’s in front of you knowing your farm and your paddocks .i could count 5/6 times this year where I’ve grass measured as per what ye would call grass measuring ,I sold my grasshopper in June due to lack of use I have a clippers and quadrant and now and again I’d cut a square to rest my eye .i go through my paddocks on quad 2/3 times a week and just react to what I see without figures 1600 is my cut off for grazing after that I work on days ahead of cows ,weather and growing conditions bales are whipped out and I move on .im stocked near 4 from April to dry off .bales go in when needed and out when not .not saying I’m **** hot at it but I’d like to think I have a good eye for it and it’s working I’m actually considering upping my Sr to 5 and not keeping any beef on outblocks .no issue buffer feeding cows when they need it they get it

Every farmer measures grass, j. Some can work it well or even brilliantly in their head. I'm not one of those.

Compared with last year, we're well ahead in numbers and yields on the same ground. I would hope to be increasing numbers by about 10% or thereabouts again next year on the same ground.

GrasstoMilk

Say my name wrote: »

When you have the figures recorded for yourself. Would you say now you're more artificial nitrogen applied efficient per litre than you were when you first started recording?
If the nitrates limit applied per acre was cut by 25% and no increase in feed purchased was allowed and no additional land was available. Would those additional 50 cows be able to stay on farm?

Oh we are spreading more N, at the 250 units where it was maybe 150 before but were growing an awful lot more grass and sending over 3 times the milk we were 7 years ago.

If N rates were cut in the morning it would be harder to keep my sr on MP what it's at, we would have to look at growing maize on one piece of ground to buffer or something.

Stocked at 2.5 over all so not at the limit in that regard

For us here it's about getting every acre we have doing as much as it can to get milk in the tank

I would say we're responsible enough with N use here, get slurry out early and no bagged N out well into feb, spread 20 units behind cows from april on, ph on target aswell

Castlekeeper

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I would very much disagree, I've 60 odd years of farming experience with me every day of the week and my father can as plain as day see how much its benefited us.

We're probably milking 40 if not 50 more cows than we would be if we weren't grass measuring
You can push the boundaries further because you have the exact figures on what grass is there and you can look back on previous years to see what went right and what caused it to go wrong

And we're off..
Ivw been measuring grass on and off for 25 years and can safely say I never kept an extra cow due to doing so. I might have got cows out earlier at times, made bales or closed up ground sooner, I've had to eat humble pie and feed those bales and grazd said ground within a few weeks as well plenty if times depending on weather. I've seen top class grass measurers, (Teagasc award farms), recently claimed that cows were only getting 2 grazing where they "should" have been getting 3, which would suggest that they may have to recalibrate something.
I've stopped with the last two years and I just play the grind in front of me without any bother.
People have different skills and it is a good way of getting over a deficiency

Castlekeeper

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

Exactly that^^^^

It's my first year doing it seriously and I can make a decision of an upcoming surplus/deficit 2 or 3 days earlier to take out (so it's back in earlier) or slow down and supplement.


Every farmer measures grass, j. Some can work it well or even brilliantly in their head. I'm not one of those.

Compared with last year, we're well ahead in numbers and yields on the same ground. I would hope to be increasing numbers by about 10% or thereabouts again next year on the same ground.

I'd say this has been a pet year for growth on good ground on the south west of the country, I certainly wouldn't be using it as a base year. If anything I'd say we're overdue a bad year or 2 unless climate change is kicking in.

Birdnuts

Castlekeeper wrote: »

I'd say this has been a pet year for growth on good ground on the south west of the country, I certainly wouldn't be using it as a base year. If anything I'd say we're overdue a bad year or 2 unless climate change is kicking in.

The past decade alone with extremes of cold(2010,2013,2018), droughts(most springs recently) and prolonged wet spells(2015, early 2020) should teach us that "assumptions" based on "optimum" conditions are foolhardy to say the least. Especially when advice from state agencies appears to take no account of soil type, drainage, altitude, length of growing season etc.

Mooooo

Birdnuts wrote: »

The past decade alone with extremes of cold(2010,2013,2018), droughts(most springs recently) and prolonged wet spells(2015, early 2020) should teach us that "assumptions" based on "optimum" conditions are foolhardy to say the least. Especially when advice from state agencies appears to take no account of soil type, drainage, altitude, length of growing season etc.

You might send some of the spring droughts down here, yet to have one!

Siamsa Sessions

Birdnuts wrote: »

The past decade alone with extremes of cold(2010,2013,2018), droughts(most springs recently) and prolonged wet spells(2015, early 2020) should teach us that "assumptions" based on "optimum" conditions are foolhardy to say the least. Especially when advice from state agencies appears to take no account of soil type, drainage, altitude, length of growing season etc.

That's always been my criticism of Teagasc - their advice never carries a note to say, "These figures and targets may not be suitable for all farms".

Another pet peeve is the assumption that everyone has roadways, paddocks, fencing, water, etc. set up perfectly. The cost of infrastructure to grow more grass is often hidden in the fixed costs column.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Castlekeeper wrote: »

I'd say this has been a pet year for growth on good ground on the south west of the country, I certainly wouldn't be using it as a base year. If anything I'd say we're overdue a bad year or 2 unless climate change is kicking in.

It's a good grass year but no more than that, yet anyway. At a rough guess, cows were on grass about 12 or 14 days less than normal this year. There was 10 days in March where they didn't go out at all whereas we'd normally have them out at least once a day during March. That's on top of being kept inside a few days longer before going out in February.

Good year so far, yes. Pet year, not a chance. We may be able to pull some days back in October/November if the weather stays favourable but it's far from a pet year here.

jaymla627

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

That's always been my criticism of Teagasc - their advice never carries a note to say, "These figures and targets may not be suitable for all farms".

Another pet peeve is the assumption that everyone has roadways, paddocks, fencing, water, etc. set up perfectly. The cost of infrastructure to grow more grass is often hidden in the fixed costs column.

North of 50k gone into roadways here since 2013, with alot of material drew at cost price as have a artic and tipper, it's a never ending expense keeping them right but you never see it properly accounted for

alps

Just wish we had taken a decision when we started farming to start at the parlour and put down 2 or 3 loads of concrete every winter..

We'd be gone out some distance by now and wouldn't have this never ending drama of road repairs..

Was even on a farm walk in the UK early on where we came across a concrete farm roadway that was down with 50 years....should've taken note of the lesson..

Wildsurfer

It's kind of like planting a tree Alps, the best time to plant one was 50 years ago, the second best time is today, so why not start concreting this year!

GrasstoMilk

You still need a good base for a concrete road or itll be cracked in no time with the weight of modern machinery going across them

Say my name

There was a fine concrete cow roadway on nationwide this evening.

trixi2011

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

You still need a good base for a concrete road or itll be cracked in no time with the weight of modern machinery going across them

Would you not be trying to keep the machinery off the cow tracks ? Concrete is class job on high traffic areas close to the parlour

Wildsurfer

I think a concrete roadway would only be suitable on a level farm, would they get too slippery in summer on any inclines and make cows nervous? Better grip on a stone road.

GrasstoMilk

trixi2011 wrote: »

Would you not be trying to keep the machinery off the cow tracks ? Concrete is class job on high traffic areas close to the parlour

If you had it concreted it would most certainly be used by heavy machinery

Mooooo

Roadways here would be machinery and cow's, bar fields accessible via the public road, wouldn't be putting down two roads for each really? Most slurry is spread by pipe but silage and fert would use roadways

jaymla627

Mooooo wrote: »

Roadways here would be machinery and cow's, bar fields accessible via the public road, wouldn't be putting down two roads for each really? Most slurry is spread by pipe but silage and fert would use roadways

When the weather really beats us here we drive up the hill to our driest block of ground turn in off the main road make sure the tank is empty just as your coming to the roadways at the end of them paddocks and drive back down to slurry lagoon on cow track, lads on dry flat farms haven't a notion of the costs involved in keeping roadways right and having to go on them with machinery constantly

Castlekeeper

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

It's a good grass year but no more than that, yet anyway. At a rough guess, cows were on grass about 12 or 14 days less than normal this year. There was 10 days in March where they didn't go out at all whereas we'd normally have them out at least once a day during March. That's on top of being kept inside a few days longer before going out in February.

Good year so far, yes. Pet year, not a chance. We may be able to pull some days back in October/November if the weather stays favourable but it's far from a pet year here.

In fairness a few days at grass in feb / march is not the same as growth rates through the growing season and in many cases more particular to an individual farm. We're probably ahead of average on days at grass for instance as with the exception of last week, the cows haven't had to be rehoused all year.
Most people have hardly room for all the surplus bales. Apart from drought prone areas that suffered a dip in May I'd say most areas are well ahead of average. I must check Pasturebase.

Mooooo

It's tankers prob do most damage so the umbilical is a help there, goes cross country. Been here three times this year and will be again pre closing date.

Timmaay

Castlekeeper wrote: »

In fairness a few days at grass in feb / march is not the same as growth rates through the growing season and in many cases more particular to an individual farm. We're probably ahead of average on days at grass for instance as with the exception of last week, the cows haven't had to be rehoused all year.
Most people have hardly room for all the surplus bales. Apart from drought prone areas that suffered a dip in May I'd say most areas are well ahead of average. I must check Pasturebase.

We were probably a ton of grass behind up until the drought ended in mid June, however since then its been pure rainforest conditions, moisture and heat, we expect a dip in grow rates across the summer here from June onwards due to drought here, however instead growth rates were something like 20 ahead of demand, despite very little bag fertiliser spread.

straight

Castlekeeper wrote: »

In fairness a few days at grass in feb / march is not the same as growth rates through the growing season and in many cases more particular to an individual farm. We're probably ahead of average on days at grass for instance as with the exception of last week, the cows haven't had to be rehoused all year.
Most people have hardly room for all the surplus bales. Apart from drought prone areas that suffered a dip in May I'd say most areas are well ahead of average. I must check Pasturebase.

Remember the cold weather in april/ may and the light 1st cuts. Them cold east winds and north winds.