Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Signpost

I recently got (not renting) a block of land in a very intense derogation area. Too far for cattle but will be bringing 3 cuts of silage from there. Will there be a market to import slurry this year without lads expecting you to pay for the spreading and the paperwork? If I’d to pay be as easy to get potash and know what’s going out but wondering will lads be more forthcoming to have the option to export with the new regulations?

alps

It would be interesting to see how the figures add up on that one. To my reckoning, if each M³ of slurry contains 2.4kg of N, then a farmer will need to export 9691 gallons for each cow over limit if in the 106 band.

In our part of the world where a 2600 gallon tank would cost 100/hr, this could cost up to 300€...

If we go to 220 on derogation, the farmer would have to rentban extra 1.2 acres to carry the cow...probably costing mkre than the €300...(but would have the extra DM if needed)..

If you were beside me and was over the limit...I'd talk to ya..

alps

Take note also that you cant be in derogation yourself, and that if you take in slurry it counts as stocking rate as such, so you may not be abke to carry more stock at home due to the extra silage you are bringing in..

Signpost

Wasn’t planning on getting this ground (or at any rate getting it so soon) so nothing set up to expand for time being on home block, no danger of derogation at home either so would be in a position to put out a fairly sizeable amount of slurry on it and try build indexes for a few years. Soil samples gone off but I know they will be brutal based on how it was farmed the last 20 odd years.

would be ideal to get slurry but with the paperwork and playing with weather and contractors I don’t think it would be worth €100 an acre. At least from a bag you know what you have and can go any day you want to with it. I see Grassland Agro have a special K product (Solelith K) which I must try find out about

alps

Frightening more is part of that same calculation is that at 2.4kg N per m³..the 106 cow would require 0.85m³ per week for slurry storage.

Thatbfigure is at 0.33 currently..

Gonna be pouring some concrete people🤧

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005812#Comment_120005812

You ve lost me,explain please

Siamsa Sessions

As slurry storage is being mentioned…

I did some calculations last night on what I’d need for 70 cows and the likely cost.

Lets just say I got another can of Guinness from the fridge and went back to watching telly with the young lads when I saw the final figure

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006388#Comment_120006388

I had figures done a couple of years ago for my shed, did the final figures on what it actually cost a fortnight ago, I like you went back to the fridge for another can but at least you haven't the damage done..it's scary expensive to winter a dairy cow now...on a plus not a frozen pipe or trough in sight this week and cows were cozy out in there..

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005812#Comment_120005812

Just wondering where 0.85m3 coming from the top danish rate band of storage is 0.445m3/week

straight

Building facilities is money well spent. Never regretted pouring concrete here.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006710#Comment_120006710

220 gallons in a cubic metre of slurry 170 cows milking here at the minute and including parlour washings their about 6500 gallons of slurry a day produced, 6500 x7 is 45000 gallons, that's coming to 264 gallons a cow a week, take out the parlour washings and you'll spare it back to around the .85m3 a week rate

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006388#Comment_120006388

Last tank done here in early 2020 was a 180 ft u shaped tank 8 ft deep with a 16'6 slat concrete was 65 plus vat a cubic metre, steel was 10k incl total for entire tank, and the slats plus columns and 4 agitation points came to 17k plus vat, total cost came to 50000 euro plus vat for tank and slats no shed our any site works around it included, roughly 140000 gallon capacity so would just about get a 70 cow herd out for the winter where cows are dry.....

Same tank now I'd say 85k-90k would be the lower end of the price to do it, could run well over a 100k depending on site and builder

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006826#Comment_120006826

Thanks for the info. What little of the rose-tinted glasses I had left are pretty much gone now 😀

Mooooo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006728#Comment_120006728

Would agree normally, the catch this time is the risk that the cow numbers to pay for it could be taken from you...

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006826#Comment_120006826

I did a tank with a little bit less storage for 53 k inc vat last year

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006349#Comment_120006349

Comes from the change they made last March when they declared that 1m³ or 1000 litres of slurry only contains 2.4 kg of N as opposed to 5kg previously.

Our cow was deemed to excreet 85kg N in the year..or 85÷52 = 1.634kg per per week.

1.634÷5(theN content in 1m³) =0.33

Therefore the cow required 0.33m³ of capacity per week of your storage period.

Move it right on..

Cow now excreets 106kg N per year..

or 106÷52= 2.038 kg N per week

Then 2.038 ÷ 2.4 (the new figure of N per m³🤨) = 0.85...

Going by their previous calculations...the new one should be 0.85m³ required per week of storage required...and that has increased as well...

Carnage🥸

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007675#Comment_120007675

Will farmers be expected to more than double their current storage capacity, if the reference figure goes from 0.33 to 0.85?

alps

They are reviewing the figures, but to my mind if they come up with a lesser figure it means that 1000 litres of slurry contains more than 2.4 kg N...but they got that one wrong before..

blackdog1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007675#Comment_120007675

Does the composition of the diet have any effect on N excreted per cow? for example a cow on a 16% diet will excrete less N than a cow doing similar litres on a higher protein diet.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007879#Comment_120007879

Definitely, and can be measured by milk urea levels...The Dutch built that into thier banding but it looks like a complicated headache..hopefully we stay away from it...

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008039#Comment_120008039

And a way around to feed high(er) protein and have low(er) milk urea is to feed humic acid,biochar.

It's all a balls anyway. Purposely making it complicated to drive people from farming.

K.G.

Lads i very slow but are ye sayong if the ntrogen content increases the volume increases .i understand that we will have to store more dairy washings but i dont understand the conne tion between volume and nitrogen content

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007819#Comment_120007819

Funny how they keep getting it wrong but they think they can get it right this time.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007675#Comment_120007675

Is that change only on dairy cows?

K.G.

Struggling to get my head around this .83 cu m per week.do ye know in the spriñg when the tanks fill up and the weather is iffey and you start putting a few loads here and there to keep it down,well over rhe years i ve kinda got a handle on how much slurry the cows produce per day from how many days you get from how many loads you put out.i did the sums and it comes in at .361 cu m a week.there is some rainwater from un roofed cubicles.i dont know what the nitrogen content is but that is the volume produced per week

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008947#Comment_120008947

Sure all you need do is talk to any contractor with a pipe system, I know one fairly well that says the only day's they weren't out last winter was Christmas day and Stephens day. Dirty water of course

whelan2

I think though this year has been really bad some rain has fallen since the start of October. Cows were in here before the start of the closed period. We'll have enough storage, just about , this year

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009123#Comment_120009123

Ye any tank not under a roof or collecting water off a yard got no chance this year..I have 40 percent more storage than I need on paper,so took a chance and didn't empty the tanks in October with the way the weather was, I'd say it was a mistake I will need to get some out by the end of January at the rate they are filling.

The whole system is rotten, what some lads can get away with while others that have ever had an issue are watched like a hawk. Neighbour horses out slurry every year with contractor tanker in all sorts of conditions nov/dec, including rock solid frozen ground including drawing on public road. Working off slurry storage that was built for half the cows he has now and his about to complete the building of a new milking parlour with 60% grant that he could have lived without. One of these poster boys for farming. It’s this kind of thing that really puts me off farming. If everyone was playing by the same rules then fair enough, life isn’t always fair I know. I’ve no issue with the neighbours, it’s just the idiotic nature of governance.

K.G.

Ah lads i m not talking about spreading before the 12 jan.i m talking about these calculations that requires an increase in slurry storage and i m saying my experience is telling me that .33 cu m per week is what they prduce not .83.i cant get.my,head around why a change in nitrogen content means a change in storage volume.i have always understood that 1000 gls of slurry was roughly the equivalent of a bag of 10 5 30 which ties in with the 2.4 figure.5 kg per cu metre would give a figure of 25 5 10 which i ve never heard anyone using