Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120503039#Comment_120503039

Was watching the Munster bovine webinar there the other night and they basically said the fertility figure is a lottery..it's a very low heritability trait apparently.

cosatron

Fertility in my view is cow management. Very little to do with bulls. The cow that has a hiefer from the first insemination, the heifer is usually fertile with good management.

blackdog1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502879#Comment_120502879

I'm using him too on heifers.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502879#Comment_120502879

Are you not worried about in-breeding %

Screenshot_20230421_140904_OneDrive.jpg

re supersire on both sides

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120503312#Comment_120503312

Ye I'd agree, fertility would have more to do with health index and type ie strength and capacity to handle the volumes of milk without falling apart, than the fertility index. Coupled with good management obviously

Gillespy

Don’t see the point in worrying about inbreeding if the breeders of the bull or the ai station that bought him aren’t.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120503835#Comment_120503835

Its easy for the Irish high EBI bulls to have good fertility figures when they have low milk.

Siamsa Sessions

And now for something completely different…

https://youtu.be/TQSNAGHM7cY

I don’t know these micro-dairy people but I did have a few text messages with them a few years back when they were trying to get set up first.

It wouldn’t ever be my type of thing but it’s nice to see them up and running all the same.

Castlekeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502624#Comment_120502624

I will yeah...

I asked a simple question, and gave my reason, and thank you for the first part of your answer, but there's no need to be casting aspersions or making assumptions about someone you don't know.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504170#Comment_120504170

As far as I'm concerned he should know better. Correct me by all means if I'm wrong. Beware of charlatans.

stanflt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120503736#Comment_120503736

Great grandparents on both sides isn’t inbreeding- I think it results in around a figure of less than 4%

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504078#Comment_120504078

Fair play to them. The place looks really well, nice and comfortable and modern.

I just hate this presentation though that all others are making nothing. It's so false. It could be that this angle was pursued by the film makers and edited to give that storyline.

They showed nothing of the real place they make their money...from the milk vat to the doorstep.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504333#Comment_120504333

Very true. No sign of how they add value by bringing the milk outside the farm gate themselves.

And typical media, setting up the bog standard narrative of us and them, good vs bad, etc

alps

Question for all you foliar guru's please..

How effective or ineffective is spraying on in late evening, heading into dusk?

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120505346#Comment_120505346

Were you trying to call me? 😉😯

I wouldn't really. When dew falls it's going to be washing off anyway. Plants go from taking in co2 and nutrients in the daytime to putting out co2 and not taking in nutrients from the leaf at night.

Edit : unless it's a high urea mix that you're afraid of scorch during the daytime and you don't mind some being rinsed off the leaf.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120503878#Comment_120503878

Plenty milk in high ebi cows if you want it

ours are at 30 l now and we’ve never picked a milky bull. Herd is quite immature too imo

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120505386#Comment_120505386

'Herd is quite immature'

ur saying this about your herd with the last 5years... the reality is that guys such as yourself that are 100% spring calving and have a tight calving block will have a herd of cows of which upto 50% will be made up of 1st and 2nd calvers... a guy near me who is a low cost grass grass grass dairy farmer reportedly has empty rates of between 20-30% every year...

stanflt

If Irish genomics worked then 70% of the herd should be 3 plus lactations

we continue to be told bullshit like your heifers are your best genetics- this is to cover up that last seasons hot bull is now a dud and there’s a new hot bull to buy which will in turn be next years dud- 15 years into genomics now and still not many daughter proven bulls to use- you have to ask yourself why

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120505384#Comment_120505384

Yep...didn't leave it ring for long..thought you might be gone to the land of nod...

Looking for a bit of advise for a fella😀

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120505567#Comment_120505567

70% of the herd @ 3+ lactations is no bother. Here is a list of daughter proven bulls with Munster.

IMG_20230421_221213.jpg

I'm not a big advocate of any system or anything but I've used a good few North American bulls over the last 5 years and they are grand like but not any better than my high EBI Irish bulls as far as I can see so far. FR2236 was a great bull for example but they keep pushing the newer stuff and it's harder to get the older bulls if you don't have your own flask. Their excuse is that genetics are improving at such a fast pace.

As I said, no strong feelings either way here, just trying to figure it out.

Downtown123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120505795#Comment_120505795

Btw as an aside if you ring up Munster and tell them you want Fr2236 sent out to your technicians flask they will send it out. Non pre order bulls like that they won’t keep in the flask as the techs have feck all demand for them. Order direct on the phone and they have to send them out. You won’t be charged till you use them if it’s not pre order. Just have to be organised. If you want a bull order him. Fr2236 is a strange one. Have a gorgeous black 3rd Calver out of him here out of a very mediocre cow. Fr2236 is only out of a very middle of the road cow family himself. Just goes to show how hit and hope breeding really is. Only breeding off a few cow families here now as while some of the others throw some lovely cows they’re very inconsistent. While others it doesn’t matter what bull you put on them - the heifers will be nice. With Sexed semen this is incredibly important that you identify the right cows. It’s easy pick bulls. Dam over 650kgms.

on a separate point if another person says they aim for positive health I’ll shoot them. A €1 health sub index is in the 18th percentile. Just shows the lack of understanding some people have. You’d want to be aiming for €10 +. Similarly another pet peeve is people looking at calving sub index as a measure of the calving difficulty of an individual bull. It’s a measure of the offspring’s calving ability ffs. Grass tech had that eejit on talking about breeding and he got those two stupid points mixed up.

Another rant PTAS for milk. If you have a herd that is on average -50kg Milk PTA, then using a panel of bulls that are 0kg for milk will on average increase your yield. If you herd average is 200kg for milk, then using a panel of bulls with an average of 150kg will decrease your yield.

Some of the muppets advising people on bull selection really haven’t a bulls notion how to work ICBF figures. A bull is only half the story. Don’t get me started on fertility. A DPR style system has to be something ICBF aim towards cause at the rate their going they’re aiming to be able to AI the cows before they’ve had their last calf.

Downtown123

Also a thing here in a grass based system feeding over a ton of meal, what we’re finding is the High milk bulls have heifers that calve down lovely and peak well and everything. However, as the seasons wears on they’re just not suited to the Irish system of no buffer feeding. Fair enough if that’s what you want to do. But by the end of the lactation the higher % from the Irish bred plus the fact they have much better condition means that they balance out the same, if not a slight advantage for the Irish ones. The trouble is when you’re picking bulls in February March April you’re used of going to the parlour each day and seeing lovely Perseus, Praser and Yamaska daughters milking all round them with lovely tight udders. Meanwhile the Albert daughter who isn’t killing herself and producing good percentages gets forgotten about.

Stan and Maloney and Jaymla and Ginger ye are running different systems to Grass2milk. You have to appreciate that we are aiming for different things. I constantly grapple with the concept of a ton of meal = 50kg MS but it’s just not that simple. They are harder cows to run and the in parlour feed doesn’t quite cut the mustard. Plus the calf quality is a different kettle of fish. 20% Friesian animal is totally different gravy to the 100% holstein

Downtown123

I also get sick of the comments “oh I’ve an immature herd” comments every year. Fair enough G2M by the looks of Twitter you have done fair expanding in the last couple years I’d say but some of the excuses when lads can’t willy wave gets sickening. Like the planned culls and that craic. Similarly a certain type of client quote cents per litre at you when it suits and kilos of milk solids the rest of the time. Like the only time an xbred herd owner will talk about cents per litre is when it suits them- milk price. But if you ask then how many litres are their cows producing per year they’ll answer back in kilos of milk solids.

im not sure who needs to tell them but everyone gets the same milk price. Every is paid the same amount for every kilo of fat, every kilo of protein and gets the deducted the same amount per litre of water. Any other fiddling is eejiting or shows a lack of understanding of how milk actually is paid for.

Downtown123

Rant over. Just saw some of the recent discourse and had to comment after a long hiatus from commenting😂

blackdog1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120506009#Comment_120506009

High ebi bulls are grand untill you get a drought or prolonged wet spell. Then they run into problems and there big problems. 2018 made a lot of people change the direction of their breeding and if we're going to get more extreme weather in the future it's something to think about

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120505487#Comment_120505487

That’s cause I’ve had to straighten out the herd here

herd has grown from 50 to 170 (calved down this year )in 10 years with zero bought in stock

was fairly big scc issues here and fertility wasn’t hectic due to ran down farm, calving spread was quite wide when I came home first hence any cow that was incalf in the period and hadn’t bad scc was kept but it meant keeping cows that I should have been culling if I had the spares

were chipping away at those cows the last 3 years now which has kept herd around 3.2 lactations but as a herd the kgs ms is still moving up every year which to me says breeding is working

we’re down to a 9-10 week calving season the last 2 years with empty rate running around 8-12 % on what was bred, higher then if you inc what cows weren’t bred (marked for culling)

imo ebi is working for us and very happy with it dispite questioning it from time to time it’s the best system for picking bulls for the majority imo

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120506009#Comment_120506009

Fair play to you, agree with everything you said there. Apart from ordering straws off Munster though. If I order a non pre order straw they just say ask your tech to keep it in his tank for you. Or the tech will have it in his tank. In fairness I already have enough straws filling my techs tank so I don't want to be doing the bollox altogether.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120505795#Comment_120505795

Ive been through that Munster list looking for proven bulls and only 1 can be used.

All but 2 are in the red list (worst 30%) for prevelance to TB.

No farmer should use them.

No AI company should have them for sale.

Pivotal is in the top 1% for this genetic fault.

GrasstoMilk

My expectation going forward is that we’ll run a nice bit under 20% 1st lactation now that I have the herd heading in the direction I want

but saying that you just don’t know what curve ball could come along so we’re rearing sone extras for that eventually

with the majority of expansion finished you’ll see slot of herds creep up a nice bit on MS going forward due to only bringing in the heifers with the best figures off the better cows aswell as maturity having an influence

that’s my opinion any way

can see ours hitting 600 kgs easy enough tbh at modest litres

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120506504#Comment_120506504

Personally I'm not afraid of TB and think pivotal has given me lovely heifers. Wouldn't be so sure about breeding out TB.