Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Say my name

It's a bit like Clark Kent and Superman round here.

The majority in derogation are on a small land base in the favourable grass growing areas. That's why they can stock stronger than the North and West.

They've always been this way. They've been in derogation since the rules said they had to apply for a derogation to continue as is.

daiymann 5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204701#Comment_121204701

Have you boys any proof to back this up like.Why dont farm orgs push for the poor auld 60 cow farmer to be left alone and tackle the big shots.

whelan2

Must be the weekend when this **** starts....

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204721#Comment_121204721

What proof have you the vast majority derogation farmers are big farmers apart from the few around you which you’re using as your sample size which is understandable because you clearly don’t get out much…

whelan2

How do you know what farmers are in derogation. How does anyone know this stuff?

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204756#Comment_121204756

Seeing as it’s one of the biggest issues of the last year, if you talk to your neigbors, are in a discussion group or socialize with farmers I’m sure it’s going to come up…

daiymann 5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204756#Comment_121204756

Exactly and in all fairness the 60 80 cow farmer being forced to reduce by say 10 cows isnt going to make any differnce at all

Siamsa Sessions

Have any numbers been published on the herd size of farmers in derogation?

Til then, it’s only mud slinging on here re 60-cow herd in derogation to be viable versus 300-cow herd in derogation to be greedy.

IFA should ask the Dept for the figures. If they don’t, the accusation stands that they’re only kicking up a fuss for the 300-cow man.

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204815#Comment_121204815

And sure you’re whiter than white if you’re not in derogation too even though you’re not subject to half the stipulations derogation brings and inspections. Go figure…

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204693#Comment_121204693

I agree that derogation farmers are split across size. The lads with the biggest issue now however are the very large operators as @daiymann 5 is pointing at. There are a good few very intensive large operators that will seriously have to reconfigure there operations.

These lads already have there heifers rearing outsourced or off farm and calves have to be dumped out the gate at ten days . The milking platform was stocked at 4/ HA or above under the old banding with land rented for maize or silage a distance away.

The rebanding has created a headache and the new derogation limits along with the increases in volume of slurry to be exported. These are the lads that are really hurting and anybody thinking different is not looking at it from this angle. So there is a push to bring the smaller operator forwards as being the most significantly hit.

The farmer stocked at 2/ HA will muddle through. He will probably have to move heifers off farm or rent a bit of lands a distance away down a lane where large machinery cannot go. That is not an option for larger operators.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204887#Comment_121204887

You'd have to wonder how many boardsies are behind the daiymann account?

It's a weird narrative being spun here and you'd wonder why?

As someone with a small herd in dero and the talks/courses for dero farmers where it's small farmers at them and then you come on here listening to non dero farmers preaching what they know of dero farmers, is beyond belief.

There's nothing known by the non derogation farmers on here. It's only winding to find out and hope if it's not rebuked that it's believed by others.

The journal had graphs of herd sizes and derogation a while back but I'll be buggered if I'm going looking for it for a boards wind up discussion. I've slurry to spread.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204900#Comment_121204900

And why are you getting so worked up about is as you are not dairying. This is the biggest problem facing farmers, lads with no skin in the game pushing their agenda including the the city dwellers believing they have a right to dictate. And in case you think you are immune believe me the city folk are dictating how you farm too.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204887#Comment_121204887

Yeah, another part of it that doesn’t add up - the derogation farms have more red-tape and are monitored more (on paper at least) than the non-derogation farms.

If the derogation farms are the problem, how come the Dept haven’t the evidence to back up this claim?

Disclaimer: I’m around 170kg with 30 calves and 30 x 1-2 year-olds on 30-ish acres. If I go milking, I’m not doing figures based on being in derogation but equally I wouldn’t rule it out if it’s still available in 2025.

daiymann 5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204962#Comment_121204962

Its the biggest problem as u say facing a very small majority of the countries farmers

daiymann 5

Minority

daiymann 5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204955#Comment_121204955

Slurry to spread and the ground saurated ur some boy preaching on here the likes of u has been the cause of problems with water

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204900#Comment_121204900

Either way if ye are correct and it is the majority of derogation farmers are big operators there will be no fear of these guys, dilute additional costs over greater numbers. These big operators are for the most part good business men and know every financial loop hole they can benefit from. Most fellas like yourself at beef have kids who will have no interest in giving up their time for cattle and will rent out to these big boys as ye say eventually anyway. Cow numbers will not go back they will just be hoovered up by lads expanding to stay full time. Dairy farmers in derogation nearing retirement who would be unviable if they had to operate under 170 would have the cop on to set the place as they know the value of their time.

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204955#Comment_121204955

What we're you at that you didn't have it spread before this, tut tut.....joking

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205008#Comment_121205008

Ground not saturated here.

Get back to the bogs of Monaghan, Limerick, Tipperary.

What county are you from?

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205027#Comment_121205027

The land of make believe it’s called I’d say lol

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205008#Comment_121205008

Would I be worse not spreading today when conditions are suitable and legally in date to spread than to leave it in the tank and have the slats full in the middle of December and be snaking out loads in the middle of winter doing so illegally?

Wildsurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205027#Comment_121205027

Bogs of Tipperary, how dare you sir! Coolmore would beg to differ!

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204993#Comment_121204993

You my friend .......laddddd as you like to say yourself, are what's known as a charlatan if you look up the dictionary your face would be in the explanation notes. Your a wind up account . A complete fake. Your a lot of other things also but I'm not lowering myself to saying. I've no idea why this account has been allowed to continue by the mods but that'd up to them . ......why anyone is giving you and a couple more Hugh priests oxygen on here is Beyond me. Don't bother with the rubbish reply there won't be a response

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204962#Comment_121204962

Every farmer has skin in the game. I am not in a strong dairying area however try to get a bit of an extension onto a shed or rent a bit of ground and dairying has impinged on that. Company set up by larger dairy farmers has driven up the price of land to where people think 20k is a base price.

@daiymann 5 is right the present derogation rules only effect a minority of farmers. There is 17.5k dairy farmers of different sizes. There is 6k farmers in derogation at present. Not all of them are dairy farmers there is a good portion intensive beef feedlot operations. Of the 6k probably less than 50% are above the new 220 limit. So this is not the biggest issue facing farmers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205016#Comment_121205016

Do not think for a minute this is not a significant problem for these operators. You can only dilute cost so far. There is now a limit income per acres and exporting slurry in the volumes required is not viable.

A farmer at 4cows/HA 3-4years ago needs 75% more land if he moved up one band from 85kgs/HA or needs to export 14k gallons of slurry/HA to remain at that stock level on that jand base.

He probably has made adjustments already in renting more land to partially adjust the banging and could have got away last year with exporting 20-30% of the slurry volumes required now with new N/cubic metre rules

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205008#Comment_121205008

Ground not saturated here in the south east. Look outside your own little bubble.

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205008#Comment_121205008

Your the ultimate shore stirrer and your antics are similar to the smart arse in a farm group always poking holes and trying to be the funny man 👨…..say my name if u actually listened or read his posts is undeserving of that dig …..a poster here that all of us learn from when it comes to soil life and how he feeds and manages it

mahoney_j

All this talk of derogation /nitrates and cows in particular ……the big pig boys with thousands of pigs in big indoor units and tiny acres in comparasion …..how are they getting away without a mention or they not been forced to cut back ….our current IFA president a large scale pig producer and likes of that gigantic pig from castle island (twitter users will know who I’m on about )another as well as numerous others ….seem to be very well connected and well funded

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205180#Comment_121205180

Ya, I believe it's about 3k farmers are effected by the cuts to derogation but it turns out now that most dairying regions are staying at 250 so it is alot less than 3k affected.

There are farmers around here stocked at 5 cows per Ha and they are not in derogation. It makes a bit of a joke of the whole thing.

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205357#Comment_121205357

Stocked at 5 on milk block not whole farm ….im stocked at 4 but have support blocks …..lads with large track of land in one spot will never appreciate the hassle those of us with fragmented farms have

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205378#Comment_121205378

Sometimes one just has to live within their means like. Started with 80 acre block here and 65 cows. Up to 105 now with 33 acre outblock. Milking 80 cows at the moment. Nobody owes anybody else anything, you just have to do it on your own if you want it