Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

onrail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485018#Comment_121485018

Maybe so. But if you were looking at the same builders quotes as myself while childcare for 3 kids needs paid you mightnt be so sure of yourself.

whelan2

The one thing is if you need to build a house or do work on a yard the price of this is only going one way. Also very hard to get people to do the work or give a quote

visatorro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485425#Comment_121485425

Friend of mine is building a house up your way. He said the same, can't even get lads to quote him for jobs.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485330#Comment_121485330

Been there, done that. BUT my build cost was half of what it is now so you are very unlucky there. Hopefully build costs will come back a bit for you.

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485474#Comment_121485474

Was lucky to get a quote from an electrician. He asked me what did I think of the quote, i said sure I've no one else. He's only a young lad. Was the first milking parlour he's done

onrail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485265#Comment_121485265

Ah yeah, I'm not blaming. He made the best decision for him and the family at the time.

My point being that just tipping along with cash in the bank, while seeming prudent at the time can have unintended consequences.

No doubt I'll make the 'wrong' decisions once my offspring reach my age.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482586#Comment_121482586

Exporting slurry is not an option. The amount per extra cow above any derogation makes it unviable with the change in rules last year.

Any other farming taking it and supplying fodder or feedstuff will require a margin as well.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121484592#Comment_121484592

At 170 kgN/HA it a licence to produce about 4k litres of milk/ acre approximatel⁹y unless you go for Ultra high yielding cows. Tge problem with them is they can only consume so much grass.

You can work your costs from that. I get given out to too much for giving figures. However I do not think it will drop to 170. 200 maybe but I think most of the cointrwill stay at 220

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121484552#Comment_121484552

There s 17 k dairy farmers and I think 7 k farmers in derogation some of which are in both camps.those kinda numbers aren't going to frighten any politician even here in West cork we have 1 td who actively supports the cuts and west cork is the home of derogation.protest s are only to gee up the troops at this stage.if you want to see how things work keep an eye on cop 23 and see how real politics work

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121484871#Comment_121484871

When the IFA decided to start shafting the small guys 10+ years back that was always going to happen

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485637#Comment_121485637

You've more sense than to believe that, economy of scale has shafted the small farmer, then the small farmers expected to take the income off the larger farmers, are ye communist or what, I've only 50 HA and my income is targetted, sad or what !!!!!.

If you farm at the same level/output every year, you will be losing money in a few years, it's the same in any business, you have to keep moving forward.

What's happening now in the farming Partnerships is the subsidies are transferring to the better off, sons /daughters that's supposed to be farming ''on the books anyway'' is working away from the farm at maybe €50 - €100000 and getting topped up at a cost to real farmers.

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485965#Comment_121485965

We’re in the final steps of having limited company set up for next spring here, trying to buy land we’ve been leasing and between tax saved and young farmers scheme basically tax free we will get 4 years of the loan paid for next to nothing. I’ll continue to work off farm for next 5-10 years as engineer and my income will be kept outside of company so it was a no brainer I’ll be starting my house the middle of next year too, if you can make the system work for you you’d be a fool not to there’s enough people profiting off the state.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485965#Comment_121485965

Unfortunately Wrangler the type of attitude you have is the typical attitude within the higher ranks of the IFA and is exactly the problem with the IFA now, greed basically.

I’m the same as yourself, my BPS is being reduced, or my income is targeted if that’s the way you want to phrase it! But unlike you I can understand why that is and why it’s fair that it should be done.

You’ve regularly bragged on here about how well you’ve done out of subsidy’s over the years so you do know yourself that the system has been good to you. It’s also completely understandable that you, as a farmer, are annoyed about this and don’t want it to happen. None of us want to lose any of the income we have.

But the attitude that it’s communist for the people that get very little from the BPS to want more from it, or that you’ve somehow earned this money and it’s been targeted now is wrong. You didn’t earn that money, you were just lucky that the system suited you. You probably also had plenty of inside info on how and when to work the system long before the regular Joe farmer did with being an officer in the IFA at a time when the IFA were strong enough to have an influence in the discussions and negotiations on these things. So being honest you probably had an unfair advantage from the very start.

Your attitude seems to be the same as the IFA attitude towards this which is understandable for a farmer to have, but is the completely wrong attitude for a farmers association to have. The IFA should be trying to achieve what’s best for farming in general, not just for the ones with the highest payments. Going back 40 or 50+ years that’s how the IFA worked, they done their best for farming in general and were a great organisation that every one of us farming today should be thankful for. The problem then was the more money that became involved, the more greed and corruption became involved and that’s what has the IFA in the mess it is today, full of lads that only want what’s best for themselves or their own farms and not farming in general. With the support of most farmers gone from them now they’ve lost their influence to be able to make a difference and every farmer is worse off for it.

I do agree with you about moving forward every year and also about the way partnerships are being set up. I think if a partnership is being set up then profits should have to be equally split between all members of the partnership and let them pay their taxes individually then. I do know of cases where sons/daughters have been signed in as 5-10% stakeholders in partnerships and are able to avail of all the extra money from grants and topups etc. while still doing very little work on the farm as they’re in their good paying off farm job and paying very little tax on farm profits with only being accountable for 5-10%. While I think this shouldn’t be the case, you could also argue that they are just making the system work for them, as you and I did many years ago and benefitted from it.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486157#Comment_121486157

Greedy, maybe but better than laziness because thats the reason I could pick and choose any position I wanted, No one wanted to take positions to represent farmers , no one would be any different in the same position, No one would spend days in meeting and not protect their own enterprise ,well thankfully they missed the boat while they thought they were too smart to take jobs.

If it's the attitude of the higher ranks of IFA , It's also the attitude of any of the farmers I'm speaking to in the same position as myself , I know farmers with 100000 +/yr subsidies and I don't begrudge them, quotas were there 30 years, so people my vintage had to make do with subsidies and farmers with quotas did their damnedest to maximise cattle subsidies too, So don't come with the holier than thou attitude against IFA, you'd be the very same, I worked for IFA to support my income and by doing that I was working for all similar farmers with 200 ewes and 50 sucklers

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486491#Comment_121486491

To be fair wrangler,most farmers on here, myself included, and I am losing handsomely on convergence, agree that flattening payments is only fair. Your group of farmers that you are discussing this with seemto be an echo chamber.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487583#Comment_121487583

Did any of your crowd offer to share their subs with those less fortunate in the 2013 CAP reform, ......you'll find they didn't ......

My max subs was over 40000, had I been farming now it wouldn't be 15000, you'd be sick in the head if you weren't disgusted

daiymann 5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486033#Comment_121486033

Do u know what a house costs to build lad 500k for the kind of place young ones want.Your land will probably be 10 to 20k acre are a ceo in your off farm job .

daiymann 5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487753#Comment_121487753

Didnt c the farm org boys protesting over partnerships it was a great scheme for big farmers entitlements grants 60 percent.But the big boys forgot about derogation now alot of those fancy sheds wont be full

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488095#Comment_121488095

I’m not going building no mansion anyway, we’ve a two bed farmhouse that came with 15 acres my parents bought adjoining us 10 years ago that’s habitable with work we’ve been doing ourselves over the last two years. I’ll be modernizing that modestly nothing over the top and add an extension bit by bit over the next few years won’t go crazy. It’ll be done with my own savings I’ve worked hard for years for and a modest mortgage. My girlfriend can get involved in time if she decides to keep putting up with me.

The land we’ll be buying will be 20 acres max and closer to 10k than 20k far from the golden vale here.

You can live like a ceo but that’s not how you’ll minimize your risk or grow wealth, at the end of the day you can only sleep in one room so why build a 5/6 bed mansion.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487753#Comment_121487753

Nobody volunteers wrangler to reduce income. But they arent whinging now. I have a neighbour that had €130,000 in payments at peak. Between stacking and convergence he has ended up on €44,000 now. He told me the other day that most young people work full time for less than that so he doesn’t feel like he has been hard done by. He didn't base his business plan or lifestyle on having it in perpetuity though because as he said, a blind man could see it wasn’t going to last.

daiymann 5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487753#Comment_121487753

You should go and get a real job and c how easy it is you were hardly killed working with what u say u were farming and your other sideline job

jaymla627

Father went into get a few bits in local agri-store this morning, long story but the owner of the business died last year and his son/mother had took over....

Young one at the counter told him account was on-stop as had gone 60 days overdue, bit of digging through invoices and 5k that they got via bank transfer had never been took of the bill in June , the little prick was hounding us the past 2 months for money, historically cleared the account every Xmas, the 6k he reckoned I owe him is 1k will be a nice conversation with him in the morning

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488845#Comment_121488845

We had similar here recently. Everything I pay is written in my diary every month and ticked off when it's out of my account. Knew I had paid it.

Say my name

I had one there recently where I paid into a merchant's account via online transfer too like I've done previously. But it was an Ulster Bank account. They had closed that account and set up another with a different bank. The money bounced back to me in a few days which I never copped. As far as I was concerned the bill was paid. The merchant texted me lately wondering of payment and replied I had it paid a good while back in the year. He then sent on the details for the new account in the new bank. Paid it again then. And sent on a text message to make sure he saw that it was paid.

Mooooo

Still use the chequebook here for main bills, some people i would go online with but main coop/ agri merchants tend to sit down with area rep and go thru a/c. Direct debit with vets alright but that would want to be checked as well, office used to put in for revists that never occured

Other times it's a job to get a bill then

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488909#Comment_121488909

This lad is a pure messer had stopped going into the place since August, couldn't be dealing with him getting vat invoices for stuff was a disaster, then you'd be waiting 2-3 months for a refund from revenue as he was obviously behind with revenue, anyone else I deal with the last year was one week max for vat to be paid back

older by the day

The people I deal with probably think I have special needs as I take ten minutes to write out a check. I have to ask the amount five times and then bargain to the last. It's a disease, I can't cure. My wife won't go shopping with me.

I was in cork city one time buying a coat, and when I started bargaining, the wife was mortified, however the girl managed to throw off a few percent. I find it funny and get a bit of a kick off it

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485603#Comment_121485603

Was at an Agri King presentation a few nights ago. He put up a slide showing feeding top quality silage along with either maize or whole crop and 5 Kgs meal would support production of 30 litres daily.

If lads cant make that pay they must be doing something seriously wrong.

Don't have to follow the IFJ / Teagasc grass only model exclusively.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488383#Comment_121488383

I started off with about 10.5k it now below 8k. Lads with decent payments from 2005-2015 had a great chance if they invested wisely in there system. Most with substantial payments 50k+ would have had chances to expand easily via land acquisition

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489679#Comment_121489679

That would work alright however the flaw is will you need to do it 6+ months a year even on good ground or will you get away with grazing fulltime 8-9 monthe a year. Along with that will these cows be able to walk a kilometer plus every day